Would dumping the Million Pound Game be a start?

[The Parksider]

I think that was one of the lasting shames for me from last season that we never go to see a Leigh v Bradford GF when both sides were gunning at their peak.

 

Well I was at the Leigh.v.Featherstone Grand final 2014 that attracted 9,000 to the Headingley Stadium. Brilliant despite there being nothing to really win.

 

Had we had Leigh.v.Bradford this year on a sunday I think we could have hit 15,000-20,000 and what brilliant TV that would have been.

 

If the rebels had had their way the prize for that would have been two whole seasons in Superleague which would have been worth 2 x £1,825,000.

 

It would have been the £3.65 "Multi Million Pound game".

 

Shame this is totally lost on the RFL apologists, it's totally ironic that in the posts above two Featherstone lads are still suggesting ways to shore this current carp up.

 

"Up the rebels" and all that........

[JoneslessBishop]

We could Parky, but many would have hated Leigh not just going straight up, and we had Wakey v Bradford that went to the last minute, jut like the League Leaders Shield. The wheel doesn't need reinventing. Sky seems to have convinced footy and RU or the joy of play-offs too

[jpmc]

I'm not sure what you are driving at here JPMC

Are you saying that the RFL in allowing Salford to spend more money than other SL clubs in 2014 and 2015 was Doctor Koukashes attempt to level up the playing field and make the bankruptcy that was Salford competitive in Superleague again??

After all the RFL would surely be delighted that the total embarrassment of their Manchester flagship under the nose of BBC Sport going bust was avoided.

As for the RFL's flagship new league system that didn't work I can see some similarities where the RFL again wave through a £300K advantage for one club.

It could get them out of another hole??

Im saying leigh and bradford should be able to spend more if they have,to try and compete with the bottom clubs in sl

[The Parksider]

Sky seems to have convinced footy and RU or the joy of play-offs too

 

Pleased you used the word "seems", what SKY actually thought about the new system I don't think we really know. The RFL may say they loved it and would only pay us £200M with it in. The Rebel clubs may not believe it one iota.

 

For me how SKY treated the new system may have been a clue. Do you think their coverage gave us any clues that SKY were either enthusiastic to the pont of paying more contract money for it?

 

Or pretty ambivolent and televised it because the RFL really wanted it?

[marklaspalmas]

Ways to shore this current carp up.

 

Here's one way.....

[The Parksider]

Im saying leigh and bradford should be able to spend more if they have,to try and compete with the bottom clubs in sl

 

I'm so sorry. Got confused, thought you meant trying to compete with the top clubs in SL 

[Adeybull]

How about if a championship side makes 4th (by some miracle given the obvious odds against it) they go straight up........If the 4 SL teams finish as expected we still have the MPG at the home of whoever finished 4th.

 

Best of both worlds unless you are the SL team finishing 4th.

Best of both worlds IF you are the SL team finishing bottom of SL.  Since you do not get relegated automatically, but get to fight another day primarily against teams with far less spending power. Worst of all worlds for the team finishing top of the Championship, since you do not get promoted automatically but have to fight primarily against teams with far more spending power.  "level playing field"?  Makes the pitch at Batley look totally flat in comparison.

[thundergaz]

Best of both worlds IF you are the SL team finishing bottom of SL. Since you do not get relegated automatically, but get to fight another day primarily against teams with far less spending power. Worst of all worlds for the team finishing top of the Championship, since you do not get promoted automatically but have to fight primarily against teams with far more spending power. "level playing field"? Makes the pitch at Batley look totally flat in comparison.

Even if the caps were the same you would only get the players the SL clubs don't want unless you were willing to pay silly money for the player as no player in his right mind would drop a level for the same money or a decrease in money. Also 1 up 1 down won't work it would just be another yo yo effect. This system is perfect once/ if you get promoted because you have a far greater chance of staying their than the 1 up 1 down scenario. Apart from franchising I think this is the best system to help clubs build once they do get to the holy grail league.

[Amber Avenger]

How about if a championship side makes 4th (by some miracle given the obvious odds against it) they go straight up........If the 4 SL teams finish as expected we still have the MPG at the home of whoever finished 4th.

 

Best of both worlds unless you are the SL team finishing 4th.

 

It's not actually that unrealistic for a Championship club to finish 4th in the 8s - Bradford could have done it last year if they'd beaten Fax in the last game. Hindsight being a wonderful thing of course Wakey losing the next day, but I still think it's tough to finish 4th and then win the MPG on top of that for the 2nd tier clubs. (Having said that I'm convinced Bradford would have won had the game been at Odsal last year, but then the past 5 years seem to be a jam packed with "if onlys" - that's sport I guess).

[jpmc]

I'm so sorry. Got confused, thought you meant trying to compete with the top clubs in SL

i would love tp be in a position were my club wanted to spend more to compete with the top club in sl.

Ive little while to wait though before that happens.lol

[The Parksider]

Apart from franchising I think this is the best system to help clubs build once they do get to the holy grail league.

 

How many more Featherstone lads are going to come out and praise this system.

 

The RFL's manipulation of the league systems cost your club promotion in 2011.

 

Featherstone should have gone up and either Wakefield or Crusaders gone down.....in fact BOTH should have gone because they both went into administration and were docked meaningless points.

 

Same year we had the irony of Leigh being done for breaking the cap, now they have Blake Solly's blessing - what a pigs ear that is. The RFL shut out a growing business to protect two busted flushes.

 

Tell me Fev lads where are Crusaders now?? How are Wakefield doing???

 

If Bradford had edged Wakefield then sure, this system would have given them a chance not to go straight back down. But only a chance.

 

The Rebels system would have given Bradford full protection to grow for this year 2016 and they would have remained in SL to grow again before being tested late 2017 against the best Championship club.

 

So I believe you have it wrong, the Rebel clubs system of auto promotion every two (and they suggested three) years is superior.

[thundergaz]

How many more Featherstone lads are going to come out and praise this system.

The RFL's manipulation of the league systems cost your club promotion in 2011.

Featherstone should have gone up and either Wakefield or Crusaders gone down.....in fact BOTH should have gone because they both went into administration and were docked meaningless points.

Same year we had the irony of Leigh being done for breaking the cap, now they have Blake Solly's blessing - what a pigs ear that is. The RFL shut out a growing business to protect two busted flushes.

Tell me Fev lads where are Crusaders now?? How are Wakefield doing???

If Bradford had edged Wakefield then sure, this system would have given them a chance not to go straight back down. But only a chance.

The Rebels system would have given Bradford full protection to grow for this year 2016 and they would have remained in SL to grow again before being tested late 2017 against the best Championship club.

So I believe you have it wrong, the Rebel clubs system of auto promotion every two (and they suggested three) years is superior.

That's the problem though parky your seeing it from a clubs perspective and not a fans perspective. If your in SL the 2-3 years is great but for the clubs outside of SL the competion is boring and under that system their is no guarantee you would go up. Licensing wasn't done properly what makes you think the 2-3 year system would be done properly. Fev fax Bulls London Leigh etc would be on tender hooks waiting for the call and then the rest would be in up roar as to why a club deserved it more than them. Ie the Widnes promotion to SL. Did they deserve it? For me personally no ok they had the ground and maybe funds but the on field and crowds wasn't exactly deserving of SL rugby at the time and that's where it should be decided IMO not in a room of big wigs saying well your ground is bigger and better than x so your in.I also don't agree with all this moaning about this system either as the clubs voted it in so just get on with it and prove on the field you deserve SL rugby. You don't see me complaining about Leigh getting an extra 300k cap increase or fev Batley etc are at an unfair advantage cap wise. Put it this way Leigh should have a better chance of beating a SL club than most champ clubs have of beating Leigh with the caps. It's all about getting on with what you've got and doing the best you can with that.

[The Parksider]

That's the problem though parky your seeing it from a clubs perspective and not a fans perspective. If your in SL the 2-3 years is great but for the clubs outside of SL the competion is boring and under that system their is no guarantee you would go up. Licensing wasn't done properly what makes you think the 2-3 year system would be done properly.

 

Gaz - we are on two different planets here. Let me explain what the six rebel clubs wanted and it was not licensing in any shape or form. This is how it works

 

Lets use 2011 to see what could have happened if they put it in then.

 

You/Featherstone would have won the Championship Grand Final and automatically gone up into SL and Crusaders would have been relegated.

 

That would have left Fev scrambling for a team at the last minute under year on year P & R. To avoid this the Rebels have suggested that such as Fev could have had a two year guarantee.

 

So in 2012 Sheffield who won the Championship Grand Final would not have been promoted to give Featherstone a guaranteed chance to grow their SL business and not go straight down.

 

in 2013 the Grand final would have meant automatic promotion and relegation again. In that year Sheffield won it again and they would have gone up automatically and they would get the two year guarantee.

 

(when Widnes were gifted promotion through a license they came bottom year one and tenth year two so that shows you two years is good)

 

In 2014 Sheffield would have had their first guaranteed season so this year would be their second year to establish themselves, with probably Leigh in best place to get the next automatic promotion with two years grace.

 

This system or PURE PROMOTION & RELEGATION in which WHAT HAPPENS ON THE PITCH counts was a brilliant suggestion by Lenegan and his rebel clubs.

 

It's a system that would  have delivered for the Widnes's, Featherstones, Sheffields, Leigh's and Bradford's of this world.

 

Not a system that would preserve the failed shells of SL clubs like the Crusaders and Wakefield Trinity's of this world,

 

And even Halifax who pipped you in 2010 could have gone up.

 

This system really would have delivered big time mate, and can still do so if the Rebels can oust Solly & Wood etc?

 

With deepest respect you OK you understand it????? 

[thundergaz]

Gaz - we are on two different planets here. Let me explain what the six rebel clubs wanted and it was not licensing in any shape or form. This is how it works

Lets use 2011 to see what could have happened if they put it in then.

You/Featherstone would have won the Championship Grand Final and automatically gone up into SL and Crusaders would have been relegated.

That would have left Fev scrambling for a team at the last minute under year on year P & R. To avoid this the Rebels have suggested that such as Fev could have had a two year guarantee.

So in 2012 Sheffield who won the Championship Grand Final would not have been promoted to give Featherstone a guaranteed chance to grow their SL business and not go straight down.

in 2013 the Grand final would have meant automatic promotion and relegation again. In that year Sheffield won it again and they would have gone up automatically and they would get the two year guarantee.

(when Widnes were gifted promotion through a license they came bottom year one and tenth year two so that shows you two years is good)

In 2014 Sheffield would have had their first guaranteed season so this year would be their second year to establish themselves, with probably Leigh in best place to get the next automatic promotion with two years grace.

This system or PURE PROMOTION & RELEGATION in which WHAT HAPPENS ON THE PITCH counts was a brilliant suggestion by Lenegan and his rebel clubs.

It's a system that would still have delivered for the Widnes's, Featherstones, Sheffields, Leigh's and Bradford's of this world.

Not a system that would preserve the failed Crusaders and Wakefield Trinity's of this world,

And even Halifax who pipped you in 2010

This sytem really would have delivered mate? You OK you understand it?

Ok parky I see where your coming from now. But the only question I have what happens if say Leigh win it in the first year but say Bulls win it in the second year does that mean Bulls would go up and not Leigh? So if that was the case you would still have a season of nothing to play for.

[The Parksider]

Ok parky I see where your coming from now. But the only question I have what happens if say Leigh win it in the first year but say Bulls win it in the second year does that mean Bulls would go up and not Leigh? So if that was the case you would still have a season of nothing to play for.

 

Gaz.

 

I understand your "boring" point. And yes once every two years the lack of P & R could be boring but clubs would still be in the queue for a guaranteed spot. The reason for the two years was to give the promoted club chance to build in SL.

 

The more subtle reason for two years is the Rebel clubs did not want the Championship clubs wasting valuable sky money in the Championship. They were livid the RFL handed £Millions to the Championships when the Superleague needs all the money it can get.

 

Look at the millions dished out this year and no championship club has gone up what a massive waste of money

 

Anyway back to the Rebels proposed system......

 

Let's take Featherstone as an example.

 

They are saying to your club that we don't want you or any of your fellow Championship clubs to have SKY money 2016.  Superleague need that money.

 

This doesn't stop you Featherstone competing to win a place to join us 2017.

 

If you win promotion you can have that place automatically and we will relegate our bottom club automatically (say Wakefield this year).

 

In 2017 when you join us we will give you over £2 Million to spend on a team. 

 

But we understand how hard it is to recruit when you are newly promoted so even if you come bottom we will give you over £2 Million more again in 2018 so you get a fair crack.

 

If Leigh have to wait for you to have a fair chance, before they can get theirs 2019 we are sorry, but we think this is the better way to make P & R actually work. Kinder to the championship clubs and less damaging financially to Superleague.

 

OK?

[thundergaz]

Gaz.

I understand your "boring" point. And yes once every two years P & R could be boring but clubs would still be in the queue for a guaranteed spot. The reason for the two years was to give the promoted club chance to build in SL.

The more subtle reason for two years is the Rebel clubs did not want the Championship clubs wasting valuable sky money in the Championship. They were livid the RFL handed £Millions to the Championships when the Superleague needs all the money it can get.

Look at the millions dished out this year and no championship club has gone up what a massive waste of money

Anyway back to the Rebels proposed system......

Let's take Featherstone as an example.

They are saying to your club that we don't want you or any of your fellow Championship clubs to have SKY money 2016. Superleague need that money.

This doesn't stop you Featherstone competing to win a place to join us 2017.

If you win promotion you can have that place automatically and we will relegate our bottom club automatically (say Wakefield this year).

In 2018 when you join us we will give you over £2 Million to spend on a team.

But we understand how hard it is to recruit when you are newly promoted so even if you come bottom we will give you over £2 Million more so you get a fair crack.

If Leigh have to wait for you to have a fair chance, before they can get theirs we are sorry, but we think this is the better way to make P & R actually work.

OK?

I get your point parky but I prefer a system where P&R is their in some form or another every season than the system where it isn't. That's just my personal preference though.

[The Parksider]

I get your point parky but I prefer a system where P&R is their in some form or another every season than the system where it isn't. That's just my personal preference though.

 

Thank you for this.

 

If you prefer it year on year you may well condemn clubs to go straight up and then straight back down so that is the downside for your preference against Mr. Lenegan and his rebels preference. 

 

Now try this.

 

Would you favour EITHER of these systems over what we have now???

 

Because if so then your in the Lenegan and his Rebels camp and against the RFL.

 

Which is good. Because it may just help get all your Feathertone Rovers mates stopping from being apologists for the RFL's stupid system, and switching to supporting Lenegan's P & R, your option not being on the table.

 

The naive may think that the RFL have won this argument despite three quarters of the board believing this system will collapse in time.

 

Not a chance, P & R can come back the more people push for it back......

[JM2010]

I think if the 2 yearly promotion was ever used the teams that win the grand final in both years need to have a play off for promotion unless the same team wins it both years! Alternatively league positions could be worth points in both seasons with bonus points for winning the grand final then the team with most points would be promoted. This would encourage the team that wins the first year to remain competitive as they would still need to finish as high as possible to guarantee promotion

[The Parksider]

I think if the 2 yearly promotion was ever used the teams that win the grand final in both years need to have a play off for promotion unless the same team wins it both years! Alternatively league positions could be worth points in both seasons with bonus points for winning the grand final then the team with most points would be promoted. This would encourage the team that wins the first year to remain competitive as they would still need to finish as high as possible to guarantee promotion

 

That's a very thoughtful post.

 

One thing about every two years is once a club goes up whoever is their main rival is out of the way.

 

So when Sheffield were nicking the grand final off Featherstone who "deserved" it because they were league leaders, under this system, the Eagles would have nicked the SL place but be out of the way for Featherstone to get that turn.

 

I don't think there's that many clubs capable of winning the Championship or of bouncing back first time on relegation, so I'd like to think nobody deserving would miss out.

 

The only other consideration runs back to cap again, you could let the rich club spend it's chairman's money on the idea they are best fixed to stay up anyway but if we want to get back to "sport" and "on the pitch" it's maybe a poor idea,

 

Who really likes Beaumont being handed another £300K to spend? Look at it with one eye and it gives a Championship club more chance of promotion.

 

Look at it with another and it is the RFL allowing a club to "fix" the Championship unfairly by openly allowing Beaumont to break the salary cap.

 

What with Feathersone Rovers apparently playing well without using Leeds players, climbing the league and seeing off leaders London, they have a chance, and should be absolutely livid at the RFL helping Beaumont to cheat.....

[GaryO]

Dont forget last year's game included a SL team that had won just 3 SL games in the regular rounds and they still won.

That statement is so terribly wrong Maximus, on entering the 8's the Wakefield Wildcats "CLUB" had won just 3 SL games in the regular rounds, the "TEAM" they assembled to compete in the 8's was as we all know bore little resemblance to the team that had competed previously, had they not had the luxury of 11 new players which only just managed the victory I think the spoils would have gone to the Bulls, that's if they had made the £M game anyway.

[thundergaz]

That's a very thoughtful post.

One thing about every two years is once a club goes up whoever is their main rival is out of the way.

So when Sheffield were nicking the grand final off Featherstone who "deserved" it because they were league leaders, under this system, the Eagles would have nicked the SL place but be out of the way for Featherstone to get that turn.

I don't think there's that many clubs capable of winning the Championship or of bouncing back first time on relegation, so I'd like to think nobody deserving would miss out.

The only other consideration runs back to cap again, you could let the rich club spend it's chairman's money on the idea they are best fixed to stay up anyway but if we want to get back to "sport" and "on the pitch" it's maybe a poor idea,

Who really likes Beaumont being handed another £300K to spend? Look at it with one eye and it gives a Championship club more chance of promotion.

Look at it with another and it is the RFL allowing a club to "fix" the Championship unfairly by openly allowing Beaumont to break the salary cap.

What with Feathersone Rovers apparently playing well without using Leeds players, climbing the league and seeing off leaders London, they have a chance, and should be absolutely livid at the RFL helping Beaumont to cheat.....

Fev will do well this season but in no way will they get promoted. They are not FT for a start and are not spending anywhere near the full cap. It's ok competing against FT champ sides but FT SL clubs is a different kettle of fish all together. As for Leigh spending X amount more I doubt it that none of the other clubs in the champ were consulted before Leigh got the extra rise in the salary cap as I'm sure we would of heard Aston at Sheffield at least moaning about it as moaning is his main hobby lol.

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

That statement is so terribly wrong Maximus, on entering the 8's the Wakefield Wildcats "CLUB" had won just 3 SL games in the regular rounds, the "TEAM" they assembled to compete in the 8's was as we all know bore little resemblance to the team that had competed previously, had they not had the luxury of 11 new players which only just managed the victory I think the spoils would have gone to the Bulls, that's if they had made the £M game anyway.

The Wakefield Trinity team that started that season winning the first 2 before been decimated with the worst injury crisis in the clubs history causing us into free fall leading to Webster unwisely publicly stating we were concentrating on middle 8s in which our players took as a cue to take it easy until the 8s. Don't think there was 11 new players in Wakefield team for the million pound match was there? Last season was hard to watch but this years squad seems to have more about them, get ground sorted and we will be right. Mr Carter is doing a good job were just about debt free, youths looking good more business involved than ever and we might even be dropping the daft wildcats tag on. Up the Trin

[The Parksider]

1. Fev will do well this season but in no way will they get promoted. They are not FT for a start and are not spending anywhere near the full cap.

 

2. It's ok competing against FT champ sides but FT SL clubs is a different kettle of fish all together.

 

3. As for Leigh spending X amount more I doubt it that none of the other clubs in the champ were consulted before Leigh got the extra rise in the salary cap as I'm sure we would of heard Aston at Sheffield at least moaning about it as moaning is his main hobby lol.

 

1. So just what is the point of a Championship competition in which there is no level playing field at all. Clubs like Featherstone and Halifax used to win this competition, The new system has created a pigs ear of a Championship, firstly they didn't allow you in SL and made your chairman spend hundreds of thousands of wasted pounds on "facilities" until you fell into the red and now they have revamped the competitions they have loaded the Championship against you.

 

2. If you recognise that a "full time" Championship club isn't really a professional RL club in the sense that SL clubs are streets ahead, then you recognise the system has an enormous gap between clubs and promotion isn't sustainable.

 

At the other end of the table what is the spending gap between Swinton and Leigh - A £Million?

 

3. I doubt very much that Sheffield are not allowed to spend another £300,000 if Mr. Swire wishes to do so, or indeed if Mr. Campbell wishes to do so, Do you think for one minute Nigel Wood would turn down extra private investment.

 

The Championship clubs may well have voted for and signed to the system because the RFL were offering them SKY money that would help them survive. If they had to sign up to this system to get that money then they can't complain now that it's all rigged and the Championship is a pure joke can they.

 

But you can, You Featherstone lads have lost any fight you ever had......