Lowdesert Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Challenge cup attendances for Batley v Catalans 1249, Saints v Hull - 7094. Very surprised at these and the image for TV an empty stadium brings. Batley v Fev, Fax, Dews, Leigh, Brad between 2000 - 3300. But for the Challenge Cup v SL contenders 1249? Saints v Hull previous SL game - 10242. 3000+ more for a league game than the CC game in the sun? Does terrestrial TV have such a detrimental effect and/or is a real wake up call? Preference in the League over CC? Are travelling fans keeping struggling clubs afloat? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Challenge cup attendances for Batley v Catalans 1249, Saints v Hull - 7094. Very surprised at these and the image for TV an empty stadium brings. Batley v Fev, Fax, Dews, Leigh, Brad between 2000 - 3300. But for the Challenge Cup v SL contenders 1249? Saints v Hull previous SL game - 10242. 3000+ more for a league game than the CC game in the sun? Does terrestrial TV have such a detrimental effect and/or is a real wake up call? Preference in the League over CC? Are travelling fans keeping struggling clubs afloat? Thoughts? I'd guess Saints have 7/8 thousand season ticket holders that all go to the league game. In the cup they all have to pay I'd say a third decided they'd watch on TV instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamfordsbeans Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Going back a few years the Challenge Cup would nearly always pull larger figures than an average league game.As a Fax fan I remember being in 10,000 plus crowds for games against Wakefield and Swinton-sharpe contrast to yesterdays 2000 attendance against Widnes. Televised games always make a big difference to crowds.Not sure what the answers are but it dosen't look good on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Thoughts? You've had some good ones LD. Can we sell the game to TV and expect fans to still go to the matches?? A simple thought would be to estimate what the crowds would be if no RL was on television, and estimate the lost revenue. I think we'd get thousands more at games initially and lose £Millions in TV revenue. Plus longer term we'd lose the TV exposure so less potential new fans would be exposed to the game. Let's hope this thread doesn't end in "Marketing" being the solution i.e. clever schemes to persuade people to pay £20 for a ticket for something they can see on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobbygobbler Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 It only seems to impact home support, so perhaps that needs looking at. There was a great turnout from the Hull FC fans and that came across well on tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Season ticket sales were pitiful 25 years ago. Fans selected which games they wanted to pay to watch. Test matches, Premiership finals and club games were pay on the gate. The number of big games outside the heartlands were tiny. London was a huge day out for people back then. The cup final was RL's big day. So a quarter final of the CC was a huge thing. No league games were on live where i lived and the cup was often 40 minute highlights or second half only on the BBC. It is a different world now. Back in the day there was even a cup transfer deadline where clubs gambled money they didn't have to sign players for a cup tun.I was in a crowd of 8k for a Fev home CC quarter final in 1981. The week after barely 2k turned up for an important league game. A week ago I watched 3 SL games and 6 NRL games without leaving my sofa. The choice for my leisure spend is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C H Calthrop Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Lets face it there is so little RL in the "free" media when it does come on the TV keeping £'s in the pocket is not too much of a decision to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Season ticket sales were pitiful 25 years ago. Fans selected which games they wanted to pay to watch. Test matches, Premiership finals and club games were pay on the gate. The number of big games outside the heartlands were tiny. London was a huge day out for people back then. The cup final was RL's big day. So a quarter final of the CC was a huge thing. No league games were on live where i lived and the cup was often 40 minute highlights or second half only on the BBC. It is a different world now. Back in the day there was even a cup transfer deadline where clubs gambled money they didn't have to sign players for a cup tun.I was in a crowd of 8k for a Fev home CC quarter final in 1981. The week after barely 2k turned up for an important league game. A week ago I watched 3 SL games and 6 NRL games without leaving my sofa. The choice for my leisure spend is ridiculous. I think this is it. The majority of people who attend a Rugby League game on a weekend are not paying cash on the day for it. Most of the home support, and the junior away support will be using season tickets. This means that when it comes to a cup game like this, families are just not going to pay the £60 or so ticket money plus ancillary costs. We shouldn't forget that season ticket holders are probably paying no more than £15 per match on ST's yet when it comes to cup games we want them to pay £20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 The cup is still very highly regarded. I am pretty sure all Saints fans were watching yesterday. I watched RL in the heartlands for a long time in the 1980s and early 1990s literally didn't even think about a ST. I pretty much paid cash for everything, including semis, tests and all cup finals except Wembley. People just get out of the habit. Away fans are always the hard core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt newsholme Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I'd guess Saints have 7/8 thousand season ticket holders that all go to the league game. In the cup they all have to pay I'd say a third decided they'd watch on TV instead. Big difference for league games is clubs count season ticket holders as attending whether they come or not. Club announce tickets sold as opposed to actual attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitRhinoovOZ Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Bums on seats don't tell the true story of a clubs health I'd say membership/season ticket sales is more what you need to look at. My team is rubbish this year so I've only attended 2 games but am a full season ticket holder so my point is plenty of vacant seats are actually sold but the owner of it didn't turn up for one reason or another, Doesn't look great on Tv I agree but not much that can be done about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 I'd guess Saints have 7/8 thousand season ticket holders that all go to the league game. In the cup they all have to pay I'd say a third decided they'd watch on TV instead. Ok, fair enough point. For me, in my own town, I'd rather go to the game than watch it on TV. BBC coverage aside, to see the spectacle, taste the atmosphere and share the passion can't be replaced. Maybe I'm an isolated case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 It only seems to impact home support, so perhaps that needs looking at. There was a great turnout from the Hull FC fans and that came across well on tv Saints have been having some fluctuating gates. I don't want to get into averages etc, but yesterday's game shocked me. Must have been thousands less to buy a pint, food or something from the club shop. Must have hurt those franchises! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 I think this is it. The majority of people who attend a Rugby League game on a weekend are not paying cash on the day for it. Most of the home support, and the junior away support will be using season tickets. This means that when it comes to a cup game like this, families are just not going to pay the £60 or so ticket money plus ancillary costs. We shouldn't forget that season ticket holders are probably paying no more than £15 per match on ST's yet when it comes to cup games we want them to pay £20. Saving brass is obviously the case for some, not sure all. Wouldn't you think more Batley fans would have wanted to see the Cats, a new and foreign foe on grass? I used to go across to see a mate of mine in the Saints area. You would know him. Every time we go for a beer and go into St. Helens I'm amazed by the passion for Saints as a club. Listening to them, in passionate conversations I can only describe as knowledge on fire, they are distraught to miss any game. Maybe, as you have said, the core isn't that big after all. Is it so bad with KC as coach they are voting on they're feet? Hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 Big difference for league games is clubs count season ticket holders as attending whether they come or not. Club announce tickets sold as opposed to actual attendance. It didn't look like 7000 on the TV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 You've had some good ones LD. Can we sell the game to TV and expect fans to still go to the matches?? A simple thought would be to estimate what the crowds would be if no RL was on television, and estimate the lost revenue. I think we'd get thousands more at games initially and lose £Millions in TV revenue. TV. I don't think we can, but Saints, with their history where thousands down. They would have known Hull would bring many vocal fans. I'm not convinced that TV would, or should turn that many away. We definitely need terrestrial TV. Would the BBC's money pay for bums on seats at Saints? Might have done for Batley's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Ok, fair enough point. For me, in my own town, I'd rather go to the game than watch it on TV. BBC coverage aside, to see the spectacle, taste the atmosphere and share the passion can't be replaced. Maybe I'm an isolated case? I agree, as they say "it's not the same unless you're at the game". To me however it seems a no brainer for SL clubs to include all or at least some CC up to semi finals on season tickets. Juniors/concessions have it automatically for example. Half empty stadiums don't look good especially for a clash between Saints and Hull two of this seasons top teams. Think this indicates how important memberships have become to most clubs in league games however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I agree, as they say "it's not the same unless you're at the game". To me however it seems a no brainer for SL clubs to include all or at least some CC up to semi finals on season tickets. Juniors/concessions have it automatically for example. Half empty stadiums don't look good especially for a clash between Saints and Hull two of this seasons top teams. Think this indicates how important memberships have become to most clubs in league games however. That would need some league wide agreement as receipts from cup games are still split between the clubs (after costs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 One of the risks around us not doing something to arrest the decline in cup crowds is that pretty soon there just is no 'event' feel to these games. Saints v Hull should have had a white hot atmosphere, yet the lack of home fans and huge sections of empty seats just make it far less of an event. More and more people will stay at home if that is the norm. It is a vicious cycle which could ultimately end in the demise of the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 One of the risks around us not doing something to arrest the decline in cup crowds is that pretty soon there just is no 'event' feel to these games. Saints v Hull should have had a white hot atmosphere, yet the lack of home fans and huge sections of empty seats just make it far less of an event. More and more people will stay at home if that is the norm. It is a vicious cycle which could ultimately end in the demise of the cup. To be fair Saints do appear to not be successful in selling out the stand opposite the camera on most occasions on TV, not just CC games, but I get you're point generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 That would need some league wide agreement as receipts from cup games are still split between the clubs (after costs) I know and that could be hard to come by I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 I haven't mentioned the attendance that triggered my thoughts last week. Giants v Leeds 5000. Not on terrestrial TV. Giants v Leeds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 More and more people will stay at home if that is the norm. It is a vicious cycle which could ultimately end in the demise of the cup. Demise of the Cup? Has it got that bad? Would make room for mis season internationals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Challenge cup attendances for Batley v Catalans 1249, Saints v Hull - 7094. Very surprised at these and the image for TV an empty stadium brings. Batley v Fev, Fax, Dews, Leigh, Brad between 2000 - 3300. But for the Challenge Cup v SL contenders 1249? Saints v Hull previous SL game - 10242. 3000+ more for a league game than the CC game in the sun? Does terrestrial TV have such a detrimental effect and/or is a real wake up call? Preference in the League over CC? Are travelling fans keeping struggling clubs afloat? Thoughts? I was going to post a thread about this! People are always shouting terestrial like a magic mantra but I always have two images fans who would normally attend sat at home with a beer and the BOX, and empty stands opposite the beebs main camera. Surely once you know which way aunty want to point the camera you fill that first! 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samdog3554 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 the in game and after of the hull idiots letting off smoke bombs ,does nothing for the game and could affect crowds, parents with young kids will start to stay away,its something we dont want in our family game.true supporters wouldnt be sat at home with the telly not the same atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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