Rant thread

[Bleep1673]

Yeh, but they don't celebrate it once a week with a delivery of goodies thrown from an accelerating white Vauxhall Astra. Keep up.

 

ah ok

[ckn]

Is it REALLY the number 1 news story on the BBC that footballers won't be wearing the poppy while playing football?  Each year it gets worse.  It must be voluntary, having anyone tell anyone else whether they must or must not wear it just misses the point entirely of it being a personal reflection.

 

The Daily Mail (I won't link it) has a story showing a black foreign woman who is apparently stopping our brave footballers from being told to wear the poppy by their bosses.

[C H Calthrop]

Is it REALLY the number 1 news story on the BBC that footballers won't be wearing the poppy while playing football?  Each year it gets worse.  It must be voluntary, having anyone tell anyone else whether they must or must not wear it just misses the point entirely of it being a personal reflection.

 

The Daily Mail (I won't link it) has a story showing a black foreign woman who is apparently stopping our brave footballers from being told to wear the poppy by their bosses.

It may miss the point of personal reflection , not that is all it has come to mean, but when national representatives are stopped wearing it by a corrupt sports body I don't think personal reflection is the point of the story.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Poppies = virtue signalling.

 

(lights that fire and walks away)

[C H Calthrop]

Poppies = virtue signalling.

 

(lights that fire and walks away)

Lighting fire = an actual signal.

[ckn]

It may miss the point of personal reflection , not that is all it has come to mean, but when national representatives are stopped wearing it by a corrupt sports body I don't think personal reflection is the point of the story.

What if a player chooses not to wear the poppy?  The original plan, and that of the English union side, is to have it embroidered onto the shirt.

 

The RBL's attitude towards poppy wearing:

 

Q1 Does the RBL believe everybody should wear a poppy from the day of the launch?

British Legion: “No, we take the view that the poppy represents sacrifices made in the defence of freedom; and so the decision to wear it must be a matter of personal choice. If the poppy became compulsory it would lose its meaning and significance.”

Q2 What is the RBL's attitude towards those who point out others are not wearing a poppy to try and shame them into doing so?

British Legion: “We are thankful for every poppy worn, every shop that allows poppy collections, and every employer that permits the poppy to be displayed – but we never insist upon these things or claim a natural right. To do otherwise would be contrary to the spirit of Remembrance and all that the poppy stands for.”

Q3 Do you consider attempted "shaming" to be counterproductive?

British Legion: “Yes, wearing a poppy should be a matter of personal choice.”

[C H Calthrop]

What if a player chooses not to wear the poppy?  The original plan, and that of the English union side, is to have it embroidered onto the shirt.

 

The RBL's attitude towards poppy wearing:

 

Q1 Does the RBL believe everybody should wear a poppy from the day of the launch?

British Legion: “No, we take the view that the poppy represents sacrifices made in the defence of freedom; and so the decision to wear it must be a matter of personal choice. If the poppy became compulsory it would lose its meaning and significance.”

Q2 What is the RBL's attitude towards those who point out others are not wearing a poppy to try and shame them into doing so?

British Legion: “We are thankful for every poppy worn, every shop that allows poppy collections, and every employer that permits the poppy to be displayed – but we never insist upon these things or claim a natural right. To do otherwise would be contrary to the spirit of Remembrance and all that the poppy stands for.”

Q3 Do you consider attempted "shaming" to be counterproductive?

British Legion: “Yes, wearing a poppy should be a matter of personal choice.”

Players are representing England Football not themselves.

 

The decision to wear it is a personal choice, but when someone has taken the personal choice to play for England Football team they are free not to take the jersey if they don't like what it represents.

 

FIFA are removing any personal choice from the decision.

[Dave T]

I think FIFA'S stance is perfectly fine.

Its a football match ffs.

People are loving being outraged.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Its much easier for FIFA to have a blanket ban.  

[C H Calthrop]

Its much easier for FIFA to have a blanket ban.  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37853386

 

Not so blanket! 

[C H Calthrop]

I think FIFA'S stance is perfectly fine.

Its a football match ffs.

People are loving being outraged.

You think the poppy is a political, religious, commercial, symbol?

[Dave T]

You think the poppy is a political, religious, commercial, symbol?

i do think it is commercial and politicised now, yes.

In Scottish football there is controversy over the use of the poppy. Im not sure it needs to be part of team's shirts.

FIFA's approach is to keep everything like this out of football and I have some sympathy with that view.

[Phil]

I've no strong feeling either way about poppies on football shirts but the way some people are going on about it you'd think it was a hallowed tradition that has gone on since the end of WW1 when in fact it's a recent trend. Stop all the hyperbole and remember the dead respectfully.

[Dave T]

Both are home nations. Both want to observe it by having poppies on their shirt, so what's it to FIFA? It's not like its England v Germany and you could end up with an awkward situation, or worse, fighting on the terraces.

FIFA just have a stance on this kind of thing. Where does it end otherwise? Charities are ever more commercial now, even if their funds are for good causes.

Im pretty sure the Scottish FA couldnt publicly say they didnt want this if they didnt, not that I am suggesting they dont.

Wars are controversial, leave it out of sport if that is the approach FIFA have gone for.

Im in line with Phil - i dont feel overly strongly about it, it doesnt offend me, but the outrage as though Fifa are insulting our war veterans is tiresome.

[ckn]

Both are home nations. Both want to observe it by having poppies on their shirt, so what's it to FIFA? It's not like its England v Germany and you could end up with an awkward situation, or worse, fighting on the terraces.

The only reason the FA want it is because they know they'd be on the front page of the Sun being branded as national disgraces or similar if they didn't. I'd be shocked silly if they actually cared enough to be doing it out of a fervour to honour whatever they think the poppy means.

[JohnM]

According to the BBC, "Fifa has been accused of double standards after it emerged Republic of Ireland players wore a political symbol on their shirts in a friendly against Switzerland on 25 March to mark the centenary of the Easter Rising.

Damian Collins MP, chairman of the Commons' Culture, Media and Sport select committee, said he had called on Fifa to "clarify the issue".

The Easter Rising was an Irish rebellion against British rule, which lasted from 24 to 29 April 1916 and resulted in 485 deaths.

"That appears to be an absolutely classic example of leniency being shown to other countries," Collins said."

F off, Fifa

[Dave T]

According to the BBC, "Fifa has been accused of double standards after it emerged Republic of Ireland players wore a political symbol on their shirts in a friendly against Switzerland on 25 March to mark the centenary of the Easter Rising.

Damian Collins MP, chairman of the Commons' Culture, Media and Sport select committee, said he had called on Fifa to "clarify the issue".

The Easter Rising was an Irish rebellion against British rule, which lasted from 24 to 29 April 1916 and resulted in 485 deaths.

"That appears to be an absolutely classic example of leniency being shown to other countries," Collins said."

F off, Fifa

England and Scotland have both worn poppies in games a few years back too. So it's nothing to do with other countries, but there is an issue with inconsistency.

[gingerjon]

Pretty sure it has actually been going on since the end of WW1 mate.

Poppies on shirts started a few years ago.

England played on or near 11 November without poppies for about 90 years.

[Amber Avenger]

What if a player chooses not to wear the poppy?  The original plan, and that of the English union side, is to have it embroidered onto the shirt.

 

It's also the plan - or at least has been for the past 3-4 years - of the English RL side.

I have always found poppies on sports kits a bit tokenistic. The players - in football especially - wear almost hundreds of names/logos over the course of a career. Can't argue with the sentiment, of course, but to me the value is lessened when it's plastered next to a huge logo of Kingston Press Cider (for example)

 

 It is an extremely recent development in all sports - I don't remember GB RL ever wearing a poppy on the pitch when we've had all our internationals at this time of year in the SL era. Does anyone know who was the first professional sports team to start it? I'm guessing it may have been in the Premier League

[Dave T]

It's also the plan - or at least has been for the past 3-4 years - of the English RL side.

I have always found poppies on sports kits a bit tokenistic. The players - in football especially - wear almost hundreds of names/logos over the course of a career. Can't argue with the sentiment, of course, but to me the value is lessened when it's plastered next to a huge logo of Kingston Press Cider (for example)

 

 It is an extremely recent development in all sports - I don't remember GB RL ever wearing a poppy on the pitch when we've had all our internationals at this time of year in the SL era. Does anyone know who was the first professional sports team to start it? I'm guessing it may have been in the Premier League

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2227120/All-20-Premier-League-clubs-wear-poppy-pride-Remembrance-Day.html

 

According to this, Leicester City started it in 2003. 

[gingerjon]

Sort of related but today, for reasons obscure, I've had to travel from Newark to Hastings via the medium of train, tube and car.

 

I counted the number of people I saw who weren't in uniform who were visibly wearing a poppy as there was a lot of very obvious poppy selling going on.

 

I was genuinely surprised that the number was 6.  Out of the several hundred people I passed going via King's X, London Bridge and so on.

 

My musing is whether the corporatisation of the poppy (for e.g. there's a massive one stuck to a wall at King's X) is leading to fewer people wearing them voluntarily on a day to day basis.

[C H Calthrop]

Look FIFA is an obnoxious governing body with little moral authority on anything. None of this is about choosing to wear a token it is about one of the most corrupt sporting organisations dubiously defining the Poppy as not meeting its standards. I mean to say;

 

"Britain is not the only country that has been suffering from the result of war"

Fatma Samba Diouf Samoura

Fifa general secretary

 

To boil this down to such a crass remark, the woman is at best an ignorant simpleton. FIFA's opposition to something far more noble than anything it could possible stand for is the outrage here.

[Bleep1673]

Wear a white poppy then instead.

 

 I haven't worn a red poppy for 30 years, since I found out about my Uncle Tom, and how he died of his injuries, unaided at Ypres.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Bleep1673

[Phil]

I have a poppy on one of my jackets, I don't transfer it to other jackets when I wear them. If people want to judge me because I'm not wearing one at the time I think it says more about them than about me.

[Griff9of13]

Guys like that are the reason I do.

I've known a number of ex-servicemen who had a real dislike of the red poppy and everything that went with it; too many bad memories for them.

Personally I can't ware one for more than 5 minutes before losing it. Therefore I wear a poppy wristband. I've had the same one for a few years now, I always stick money in a poppy collectors tin as soon as I see one after wearing it.