Rant thread

[Phil]

53 minutes ago, ckn said:

The NHS is by far the worst payer of invoices I've experienced in my time as any sort of self-employed individual.  They utterly ignore payment terms included in contracts and simply couldn't care less.  And yes, this is a sweeping generalisation as I've not experienced one NHS organisation capable of paying a simple invoice on time.

I do work on 14 day payment terms but have an unwritten allowance to 30 days.  I did work in August, submitted my invoice start of September, expecting payment around the start of October on that 30 days.  Still not paid, invoice still in the system, expected payment "maybe" middle of December.

I know one GP who took two years to get an undisputed invoice paid.  It was only when he sent in the small claims court papers that he got his money.

issue legal against them. I'm currently issuing against companies/individuals who owe us August. Its not on.

[ckn]

Just now, Phil said:

issue legal against them. I'm currently issuing against companies/individuals who owe us August. Its not on.

I had this fight with finance when I worked in the NHS, one of our suppliers invoked the statutory framework for late payment as a major invoice was three months overdue.  Finance then said it could not pay the invoices as the new invoice plus penalty interest took it over the Purchase Order approvals and it had to go through re-approval.  Then two months later, the supplier ups it again with a further revision, Finance decided to start approvals again to incorporate the new extra penalty.  They threatened court proceedings and were told that that would be the last business they had from us if they did.  It really is "the computer says no".

It's utterly irrelevant to many in the public sector what the law says on things like this, if it doesn't suit them then the law doesn't apply.

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, ckn said:

I had this fight with finance when I worked in the NHS, one of our suppliers invoked the statutory framework for late payment as a major invoice was three months overdue.  Finance then said it could not pay the invoices as the new invoice plus penalty interest took it over the Purchase Order approvals and it had to go through re-approval.  Then two months later, the supplier ups it again with a further revision, Finance decided to start approvals again to incorporate the new extra penalty.  They threatened court proceedings and were told that that would be the last business they had from us if they did.  It really is "the computer says no".

It's utterly irrelevant to many in the public sector what the law says on things like this, if it doesn't suit them then the law doesn't apply.

we're lucky enough to have a large and varied enough customer base so that no one organisation or company has us over a financial barrel. Once they're out of terms that's it with us. I realise not all companies/individuals are that fortunate.

[Bleep1673]

On 18/11/2017 at 9:02 PM, tonyXIII said:

I like cats. I think cats are great.

 

I am allergic to cats

[Bleep1673]

On 18/11/2017 at 10:03 PM, tonyXIII said:

Nah! His recipes are all "marinade in this", "saute in that". Just "knock off its horns, wipe its ###### and bung it on a plate" is my philosophy.

Can anyone recognise the quotation?

 

 

Who the hell is Barry Popik?

[tonyXIII]

3 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

Who the hell is Barry Popik?

Eh? Bazza. aka Barry MacKenzie.

He was the main character in the Barry MacKenzie cartoons written by Barry Humphries (aka Dame Edna Everage) and published in Private Eye in the sixties/seventies (I think). Bazza was a crude caricature of the stereotypical young Aussie male let loose in London. 

[Shadow]

[gazza77]

9 hours ago, ckn said:

I had this fight with finance when I worked in the NHS, one of our suppliers invoked the statutory framework for late payment as a major invoice was three months overdue.  Finance then said it could not pay the invoices as the new invoice plus penalty interest took it over the Purchase Order approvals and it had to go through re-approval.  Then two months later, the supplier ups it again with a further revision, Finance decided to start approvals again to incorporate the new extra penalty.  They threatened court proceedings and were told that that would be the last business they had from us if they did.  It really is "the computer says no".

It's utterly irrelevant to many in the public sector what the law says on things like this, if it doesn't suit them then the law doesn't apply.

The reason behind this is often "authorisation". If an invoice is received into the finance department, they cannot pay it until it has been approved by the department that has actually requested the goods or services has authorised it. Department is too busy to deal with any paperwork, invoice doesn't get paid.

I had a good example of this myself recently, given that I actually work in an NHS finance department. I am going on a training course to Birmingham in a couple of weeks, and needed train tickets. I couldn't get them ordered, as we were on "stop" with the company that we deal with for travel booking. The reason we were on stop was non-payment, which in turn was because the last invoice had to go to 20 or 30 different people to approve their relevant charges and not all had done so. From an audit perspective, this is good governance, as it ensures budget holders are accountable for their expenditure. From a practical point of view, it can be a real pita.

[ckn]

23 minutes ago, gazza77 said:

The reason behind this is often "authorisation". If an invoice is received into the finance department, they cannot pay it until it has been approved by the department that has actually requested the goods or services has authorised it. Department is too busy to deal with any paperwork, invoice doesn't get paid.

I had a good example of this myself recently, given that I actually work in an NHS finance department. I am going on a training course to Birmingham in a couple of weeks, and needed train tickets. I couldn't get them ordered, as we were on "stop" with the company that we deal with for travel booking. The reason we were on stop was non-payment, which in turn was because the last invoice had to go to 20 or 30 different people to approve their relevant charges and not all had done so. From an audit perspective, this is good governance, as it ensures budget holders are accountable for their expenditure. From a practical point of view, it can be a real pita.

I had a rule for my managers that they had to approve their invoice/PO authorisations same day.  It drove our management accountant crazy as he couldn't keep up

[gazza77]

7 minutes ago, ckn said:

I had a rule for my managers that they had to approve their invoice/PO authorisations same day.  It drove our management accountant crazy as he couldn't keep up

We'd not worry about that, we wouldn't be looking at transactional info daily. Our payments team would love you for that efficiency though.

[Billypop]

1 hour ago, gazza77 said:

The reason behind this is often "authorisation". If an invoice is received into the finance department, they cannot pay it until it has been approved by the department that has actually requested the goods or services has authorised it. Department is too busy to deal with any paperwork, invoice doesn't get paid.

I had a good example of this myself recently, given that I actually work in an NHS finance department. I am going on a training course to Birmingham in a couple of weeks, and needed train tickets. I couldn't get them ordered, as we were on "stop" with the company that we deal with for travel booking. The reason we were on stop was non-payment, which in turn was because the last invoice had to go to 20 or 30 different people to approve their relevant charges and not all had done so. From an audit perspective, this is good governance, as it ensures budget holders are accountable for their expenditure. From a practical point of view, it can be a real pita.

 

[Billypop]

Same here. Even where a capex is a no brainer the CFO has to sign it off AFTER the CEO. Then it goes to Head Office. And they berate us in IT for not being agile. Once upon a time it took three months to sign off a simple purchase order because of meetings and holidays.

 

[Bedford Roughyed]

On 11/23/2017 at 5:51 PM, Jacko45 said:

Black Friday or Black 5 days, what's going on.

The shops and retailers are struggling and need a pre christmas boost...?

[ckn]

12 hours ago, gazza77 said:

We'd not worry about that, we wouldn't be looking at transactional info daily. Our payments team would love you for that efficiency though.

We had four management accountants in three years appointed to us. We worked on a P&L budget managed at both the whole service and down to individual project level. Simple, right?  Not to them. They couldn’t get what I thought were high school concepts. One example, the monthly budget statement they sent me was correctly accruals based but had a separate reconciliation tab of Actuals so I could reconcile actual cash flow and AR activity, EVERY month for every one of the four management accountants I had accruals in there. I found out after I got an email from NHSE that said they’d messed up and hadn’t paid any invoice on a long project yet my Actuals statement said I’d had monthly income from regular payments.

Also, apparently cash flow wasn't my problem, once I'd sent it into the AR and AP systems I should treat it as money in (or out of) the bank.  All four said that to me at one point or another.  The FD was ready to strangle one once in a meeting because his accountants under him just couldn't get the importance of cash flow in a NHS business built on low margins.

[ckn]

11 hours ago, Billypop said:

Same here. Even where a capex is a no brainer the CFO has to sign it off AFTER the CEO. Then it goes to Head Office. And they berate us in IT for not being agile. Once upon a time it took three months to sign off a simple purchase order because of meetings and holidays.

 

Capital spending and income has to be one of the least understood things by very senior management I've ever come across.  I saw one long chain of emails and approvals at board level over an £80 capital invoice for equipment.  £80...

[gazza77]

41 minutes ago, ckn said:

Capital spending and income has to be one of the least understood things by very senior management I've ever come across.  I saw one long chain of emails and approvals at board level over an £80 capital invoice for equipment.  £80...

Why the hell would you be capitalising £80?

Management accountants in my experience can often struggle with cashflow in my experience, as it doesn't impact on what they see. Likewise, financial accounts staff can often struggle with accruals and prepayments. It's in part the downside of working in larger organisations, in that you don't get to see the full picture.

That said, if they're studying or qualified, they really ought to have at least some grasp of it.

Edited November 25, 2017 by gazza77

[gazza77]

Following yesterday's snow, I've discovered Calderdale council have dramatically cutback on gritting routes. Pain for us, and for some in the area it now means potential isolation as they appear to be leaving the majority of the rural areas to fend for themselves. ?

[ckn]

35 minutes ago, gazza77 said:

Why the hell would you be capitalising £80?

Management accountants in my experience can often struggle with cashflow in my experience, as it doesn't impact on what they see. Likewise, financial accounts staff can often struggle with accruals and prepayments. It's in part the downside of working in larger organisations, in that you don't get to see the full picture.

That said, if they're studying or qualified, they really ought to have at least some grasp of it.

 

That £80 was for one bit of consumable IT equipment as an additional part of a wider project of works, it was a discrete item and invoice though.  A consumable bit of IT equipment that I laughed at the thought of someone journalling as a capital asset.

[ckn]

Scottish Power can go fornicate with themselves.

I DON'T WANT A SODDING SMART METER INSTALLED, TAKE THE SODDING HINT FROM THE 20 OTHER TIMES YOU'VE ASKED ME!

I certainly don't want to be called at 7pm on a Sunday evening asking about it.

If they want to install a smart meter, I want a personal guarantee from the CEO of "Scottish" Power that if they screw it up, there are problems or they prove to be as insecure as those in the know think they are, that he'll pay from his own personal pocket to rectify the problem, reinstall an old-style meter and compensate me for my trouble at a rate of £10,000 per phone call.

Smart Meter technology is still too immature to even consider having it in domestic properties except on a controlled trial basis.  It's nowhere near ready for a general roll-out and they bloody well know it.

[tonyXIII]

2 hours ago, ckn said:

Scottish Power can go fornicate with themselves.

I DON'T WANT A SODDING SMART METER INSTALLED, TAKE THE SODDING HINT FROM THE 20 OTHER TIMES YOU'VE ASKED ME!

I certainly don't want to be called at 7pm on a Sunday evening asking about it.

If they want to install a smart meter, I want a personal guarantee from the CEO of "Scottish" Power that if they screw it up, there are problems or they prove to be as insecure as those in the know think they are, that he'll pay from his own personal pocket to rectify the problem, reinstall an old-style meter and compensate me for my trouble at a rate of £10,000 per phone call.

Smart Meter technology is still too immature to even consider having it in domestic properties except on a controlled trial basis.  It's nowhere near ready for a general roll-out and they bloody well know it.

When I was i/c IT and finance at my last school (20 years ago), I would NEVER, EVER buy the latest hardware or software. It was too expensive and too 'fragile' (ie. it would crash frequently).

However, much as I admire your Canute-like stand, I fear the tide is rapidly coming in.

 

[ckn]

36 minutes ago, tonyXIII said:

When I was i/c IT and finance at my last school (20 years ago), I would NEVER, EVER buy the latest hardware or software. It was too expensive and too 'fragile' (ie. it would crash frequently).

However, much as I admire your Canute-like stand, I fear the tide is rapidly coming in.

 

Seriously, the first generation smart meters rolling out now are potentially incompatible with the proposed national data network of these things. They’re also remotely controllable with security that a 10 year old script kiddie could break with a bit of luck. There’s a very real likelihood that every one of them will have to be replaced or retrofitted manually to make them secure and compatible.

The second generation lot are getting ready to be rolled out and are compatible BUT people are ignoring calls and comments that they’re still very vulnerable.

I simply refuse to tolerate having kit in charge of my home’s power that’s dangerous and not 100% proven impregnable.

Our national power distribution is fairly well protected but NOT invulnerable. Moving the edges into homes without key security guaranteed is not acceptable. 

If a government minister personally guaranteed on pain of jail time that it was secure then I may relax my view. They won’t though because it’s not.

[Farmduck]

I hate copyright enforcement for its own sake. I've been watching the old JK Galbraith series, The Age of Uncertainty, on YT and I get up to Episode 12 and there's no sound. Because of a copyright claim related to some of the music used in that episode, YT has deleted the sound on every copy of it. I think it was probably the Jimi Hendrix version of Star Spangled Banner

[Phil]

14 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

I hate copyright enforcement for its own sake. I've been watching the old JK Galbraith series, The Age of Uncertainty, on YT and I get up to Episode 12 and there's no sound. Because of a copyright claim related to some of the music used in that episode, YT has deleted the sound on every copy of it. I think it was probably the Jimi Hendrix version of Star Spangled Banner

a band I was in covered "hi heeled sneakers" by Tommy Tucker. We did a decent version of it and included it, and many other standards on a CD we recorded.

 

Mr Tuckers representatives sent a message through our website. "Great version guys, now lets talk about our cut" Legally absolutely correct, but this was a £5 CD that we had 200 copies of :-/

 

[Farmduck]

34 minutes ago, Phil said:

a band I was in covered "hi heeled sneakers" by Tommy Tucker. We did a decent version of it and included it, and many other standards on a CD we recorded.

 

Mr Tuckers representatives sent a message through our website. "Great version guys, now lets talk about our cut" Legally absolutely correct, but this was a £5 CD that we had 200 copies of :-/

 

I was on a jazz guitar site many years ago and some guy posted chords he found for "As Time Goes By." He said he couldn't get them to sound right so I did a quick vid showing him. The vid was about 1 minute and I was talking through it so nobody would have considered it "music" as such, but I got a copyright claim on it and it was monetised by the publishing company.

58 seconds worth:

 

[ckn]

Sainsbury's.

We got our food shop delivered by them, we paid the extra money for the shopping to be bagged as it's a nuisance getting it through the house when it's a £200 shop worth of stuff. 

Rant 1: It turned up in 11 crates but only two bags, the driver and I had to spend too long putting it into bags to get it in.  If I sodding well pay for my shopping to be in bags, I want it in bags. (No fault to the driver, he was hugely apologetic and had gone back to the store a couple of deliveries earlier to get some bags to pack in as all his jobs of the day were like that)

Rant 2: The packer had put all the soft stuff, such as veggies and bread in with cans.  Some squashed stuff went back immediately.  Come on...

Rant 3: One pack of meat was out of date.  Seriously?

Rant 4: Four other fridge items were dated to be used immediately.

Rant 5: One of the packs of tomatoes had white mould on it, right at the top and very visible.

Rant 6: Sainsbury's refund processes are abysmal.  I called making it clear that this was the third delivery in a row from them with problems and asking why I should keep shopping with them given I don't get those problems with Tesco, Waitrose or Asda deliveries.  "Our policy..." started and sent us a £10 e-voucher for the out-of-date meat and e-voucher refunds stating that they don't routinely refund to cards any longer.  I had to threaten to go to Trading Standards about them selling out-of-date meats to get them to relent, and even then it took about 20 minutes on the phone.

They still didn't give an answer on why I should keep shopping with them.  So I won't.