Can the Future of Open Age RL be Sustained?

[Marauder]

And what are the pro clubs like Hull and Castleford doing to develop the game in Goole?

Hull FC are in the schools in Goole have been going there for years, many years ago Hull FC wanted to put their `A` team into the bottom league and play their home games at the Victoria Pleasure Ground in Goole,

[Marauder]

I'm a fan of expansion but I think there should be strict criteria for any clubs entering league 1. I personally think that teams should only be allowed to step up to the professional ranks if they have a pyramid of community clubs with junior sections below them in their town/city/area. This would encourage potential new clubs to build the sport in their area and engage with potential fans and hopefully help them become self sufficient in producing players.

This would be idea if the talent that got uncovered was allowed to stay with the club for a `X` period of time, this would allow the new clubs the chance to grow and move upwards

[terrywebbisgod]

Hull FC are in the schools in Goole have been going there for years, many years ago Hull FC wanted to put their `A` team into the bottom league and play their home games at the Victoria Pleasure Ground in Goole,

So if many of the people of Goole go to FC games, why set up a new one in Goole. Money wasted surely.

[Marauder]

So if many of the people of Goole go to FC games, why set up a new one in Goole. Money wasted surely.

Why set up a club down south when more people go to watch village teams in the winter,,,,,,,,,,,,,Maybe if a dozen go from Goole to Hull FC, Hull KR, Castleford, Doncaster, York and Featherstone MAYBE Two dozen will go to the VPG in Goole, maybe Goole could attract more arm chair supporters from places like Howden, Selby, Thorne, Scunthorpe and the other surrounding villages.

[terrywebbisgod]

Set up a club down south to EXPAND the game.Not keep it as a parochial Northern sport.

Although some want to keep it as a local sport for local people.

Surely the opportunity has arisen for amateur clubs to be set up in Goole and surrounding areas in the past.What has become of them?

No,I already know your answer.The RFL killed them by moving to summer rugby.

If Hull FC are in schools in goole are they not encouraging amateur clubs to be set up.The Rhinos are in Leeds,there have been half a dozen in the past few years.

[Marauder]

Set up a club down south to EXPAND the game.Not keep it as a parochial Northern sport.

Although some want to keep it as a local sport for local people.

Surely the opportunity has arisen for amateur clubs to be set up in Goole and surrounding areas in the past.What has become of them?

No,I already know your answer.The RFL killed them by moving to summer rugby.

If Hull FC are in schools in goole are they not encouraging amateur clubs to be set up.The Rhinos are in Leeds,there have been half a dozen in the past few years.

I think the priory at the moment should be to get the numbers playing the game going upwards because the flags on the map ain't working and if we get the numbers going in the right direction I'd pick off the nearest towns/collection of towns and start the system again.

[terrywebbisgod]

I think the priory at the moment should be to get the numbers playing the game going upwards because the flags on the map ain't working and if we get the numbers going in the right direction I'd pick off the nearest towns/collection of towns and start the system again.

Surely it should be about getting numbers playing ANYWHERE,not just in the "heartlands".

[Marauder]

Surely it should be about getting numbers playing ANYWHERE,not just in the "heartlands".

It is, but where would be the best place to ignite the fire again because the game is in a mess.

[terrywebbisgod]

It is, but where would be the best place to ignite the fire again because the game is in a mess.

Continue to grow the areas that are growing,rather than cast them adrift as you've suggested.Everything finds it's own level eventually.Kids and adults have a lot more things to do these days,unfortunately,Rugby League isn't top of the list anymore.Times and people change.

[JM2010]

I think the priory at the moment should be to get the numbers playing the game going upwards because the flags on the map ain't working and if we get the numbers going in the right direction I'd pick off the nearest towns/collection of towns and start the system again.

I think we need to 'expand' the game in the places where it already is played which does include Oxford, Coventry, Hemel, London etc as well as the North West and Yorkshire. I think we then need to expand outwards from these town/cities when the numbers playing in those places are at a good level

[Marauder]

I think we need to 'expand' the game in the places where it already is played which does include Oxford, Coventry, Hemel, London etc as well as the North West and Yorkshire. I think we then need to expand outwards from these town/cities when the numbers playing in those places are at a good level

To expand we need development officers, the RFL cut these a few years ago

[TaxiEgg]

Expansion is fine providing it is not at the expense of the heartlands , I can't comment on why but can anyone from over the White Rose give reasons for the demise in U18s rugby in Yorkshire and Humberside ?

Which could take us back to the point of the original thread .

Every RL fan wants more people playing and enjoying RL the more we have playing the bigger the talent pool to sustain the pro game and OA .

People are quite right when they say times are a changing and we have to embrace those changes and make the playing of RL more appealing the more you have playing should mean more people watching which makes the game stronger .

[Wilber]

To put the thread back on track and in the wake of the expansion bit currently being debated, it is all connected.

 

The thread is "can the future of Open Age RL be sustained" and i think the common perspective is we are going to struggle. Why are we going to struggle because of a number of factors which merge into one big blur. 

 

I wasn't picking on Oxford as a club but i question what they did first to build a base. Had they generated 10-15 community clubs with a junior set up coming through then set up the club you have the pyramid however they were fast tracked to the ranks given 80 - 100k and generate no revenue and take most of their players, if not all, from the Northern "Parochial" clubs who in turn struggle. Combine this with SL clubs signing lads at 16 and very little coming back to the community game at the end of the Academy's and we all begin to struggle.

 

But what could we do better? for me expansion has to be organic and not forced. You cant plant 1 Grape Vine to create wine in the middle of a forest. You have to clear a space, plant many trees and then put a rose to help populate the grape. To put that in English lets take Wigan as an example. A town full of rugby players you may think well stats show there are around 28,000 males between 15-29 and how many play Rugby League in Wigan? Lets work on 19 Clubs with an average of 175 players per club that's around 3,325 plyers in Wigan now as stats go that not a bad return, with a little work and investment in development you could easily hit 25% of the young male population playing rugby. The grape vine and Rose works

https://www.wigan.gov.uk/Council/Data-Statistics/Borough-Story/Population-estimates-2014.aspx

 

Now lets look at Oxford, a population of 501,000 of which the males of 15-29 relate to around 9% of the population so 42,000 eligible males to play Rugby League, how many clubs do they have, Bartholomew Bulldogs ? So they put a club there and expect people to watch it and grow the club; its a recipe for failure. No you have to plant the tree's (clubs) for a number of years let them ripen then plant the Rose (Oxford RL) and watch the game flourish

https://www.oxford.gov.uk/info/20131/population/460/age_and_gender

 

Now replicate that with a number of other clubs in higher populated areas and the game begins to fail. You cant keep coming north and taking players south and expect the game to expand its nonsense, but remember its not just in the south this happens on our own door step in the North!!

 

The problem is, and always has been, money. How many on here go on CPD's for work? Your professional development is essential to your company being successful but if you didn't develop as an individual and your company withdraw your funding you will soon be on the unemployment pile.

 

The RFL have to dig deep in their pockets or distribute the money away from the likes of Oxford to first build the base by putting people back on the ground other wise the spiral will all be in one direction. I'm not saying Oxford cant exist but the fundamentals need to be in place first. Further more they need to tweak their academy's and signing pro policy. Scrap the signing on at under 16's back to Under 18's which should encourage lads to stay on until under 18's finish, by this time you have a better chance at retaining players into Open Age. There is more but for me these two factors are key to the survival of our sport

[Defender1]

Wilber spot on!

U18s

IMO from being on the ground my lad is now 19

: I think transfers and poaching an issue, you have the elite team who want to have the super team and try to attract the best players. When they have the super team they hammer everyone and teams will not get numbers to play them. I received a phone call get your lad to come to xxxx club and we will get your lad on The local professional club, he stayed and didn't get on the Pro Club, why was he good enough if he went to A but not good enough if he stayed at B

The team reaches 16 and the good players sign for the Pro Club, the majority of the rest pack in the game as they struggle to suffer defeat also their pride is hurt, most think they are better than they probably are, the Pro clubs are ticking a box and use the majority when released only a small % return to the amateur ranks.

Clubs are too insular and some would rather the player pack the game in rather than go to another club, Sunday morning has been an issue and at that age they find birds but mainly booze so getting up is an issue to travel. There aren't enough open age players so the lads are old enough at 16 to play and are used in OA, is it easier to run the OA team and play on a Saturday then go out rather than struggle on a Sunday with boozed up players, to get games most have to travel which again the expense can be a problem.

Possible Solution

: Scrap the U16 Academy's

: The issue of transfers and poaching has always been an issue with rules stretched for the elite clubs which also passifies the Pro Club there could be a few things done but would upset most so they don't get voted on, the Elite clubs usually have strong characters on board or people who are associated with the RFL or the Pro Club and I find they over power the rest.

: Possible double headers with the First team this does happen in RU, I have been in both RU and RL but sometimes find the 1st team coach and club do not always appreciate the 2nd team or youth and how important they are to the club itself this works both ways as a lot of coaches ring fence their team rather than embracing the club

[LionelHurst]

Outstanding posts DoubleD. You obviously have done your homework. More and more Gloucestershire,Bristol,etc lads are in our League 1 side having progressed through our young reserve and varsity sides. The truth is we want both ie expansion and return to success in the original counties. Add in 2 primary school comps plus 1908 Cup for boys and Golden Fern Cup for girls etc www.allgoldsrugby.com

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

All great suggestions, but one thing needs to change more than anything mentioned on here so far and the is PLAYER ATTITUDES!!

Cumbria MENS this weekend, Maryport, Seaton and Wath Brow insufficient numbers to get teams.

All the above have youth sections as well although Maryports only up to 14s at present.

That's the biggest hurdle to overcome, makes little odds what time of year you play if the dedication is lacking.

[LionelHurst]

Great win for young All Golds CLS v tough Welsh opposition. Make up of Glos team? 14 from the South West,2 from Cardiff,1 from Wolverhampton but studying at UoG.

[Wilber]

That's Great Lionel, that's one Conference league south side.

 

What was the make of your Champ 1 team that lost to North Wales Crusaders?

[LionelHurst]

Wilber of the 19 we havdto submit to the Press Association before the match 15 are either based in Gloucestershire South Wales or the South of England. Of the 21 players signed for 2017 all are similarly based except 2 and we have offered them university places or will aid them to find employment in Gloucestershire if they so wish. We plan to bring our under 16s back next year and have 25 local boys in this age group on the RFL's Embed The Pathway.

[LionelHurst]

Just been looking at the Birstall Victoria site. Now that seems like the sort of organisation everyone should strive for at amateur level.