RLWC 2021 - USA Bid Statement

[CanaBull]

With respect USRLFAN, and I understand completely where you are coming from, comparing rugby league to NFL is apples and oranges in terms of financial backing.  Literally billions of dollars and a globally massive brand, versus erm, well, what rugby league has.

 

Rugby League does not need to compete with the major North American sports it needs to be an accepted minor sport; in terms of increasing the profile of the sport and its possible uptake, this is the best chance of recent times.  Rugby of any stripe has only really been shown on TV regularly over the last four or five years and, to be honest, I don’t even think they need to compete with each other either.

 

There is a yawning gap between high school/collegiate level rugby in North America and state/provincial and national teams.  Emphasis needs to be built on skills and abilities; some athletes will have the skills and shape for a Union path, others for League play.  The important thing is the pathway to excellence and representation, pathways that just don’t exist at the moment and if those pathways can generate revenue streams of their own I don’t think it will matter what the code is to people involved in the business of running a club.

 

The players themselves don’t seem to have an issue with the codes, though a minority of coaches and administrators might.  Players just want a chance to represent so it's important to make it clear to those players and the public in general that now, after a hundred years of being banned by the Union authorities, clubs are free to create a Rugby League program to draw in additional funds and to provide another pathway to pull on a jumper for your country.

 

However, there is only a limited window of opportunity for creating a concurrent direction for ‘rugby’ in general, and a World Cup competition would be a key step in achieving that.  There will always be reasons for caution and conservatism, but with rugby league being more appealing to the neutral, my gut is telling me that this is the time to grab the opportunity, bury the fears and run hard with it.

[RLWC2021USA]

I hadn't heard Toronto mentioned till this- assuming BMO?

Yes, intention would be to play BMO Field (Toronto) and BC Place (Vancouver). Here's the article on Canada's request to join the bid.

http://theprovince.com/sports/rugby/vancouver-aiming-for-north-americas-2021-rugby-league-world-cup-bid

[USRLFAN]

With respect USRLFAN, and I understand completely where you are coming from, comparing rugby league to NFL is apples and oranges in terms of financial backing.  Literally billions of dollars and a globally massive brand, versus erm, well, what rugby league has.

 

Rugby League does not need to compete with the major North American sports it needs to be an accepted minor sport; in terms of increasing the profile of the sport and its possible uptake, this is the best chance of recent times.  Rugby of any stripe has only really been shown on TV regularly over the last four or five years and, to be honest, I don’t even think they need to compete with each other either.

 

There is a yawning gap between high school/collegiate level rugby in North America and state/provincial and national teams.  Emphasis needs to be built on skills and abilities; some athletes will have the skills and shape for a Union path, others for League play.  The important thing is the pathway to excellence and representation, pathways that just don’t exist at the moment and if those pathways can generate revenue streams of their own I don’t think it will matter what the code is to people involved in the business of running a club.

 

The players themselves don’t seem to have an issue with the codes, though a minority of coaches and administrators might.  Players just want a chance to represent so it's important to make it clear to those players and the public in general that now, after a hundred years of being banned by the Union authorities, clubs are free to create a Rugby League program to draw in additional funds and to provide another pathway to pull on a jumper for your country.

 

However, there is only a limited window of opportunity for creating a concurrent direction for ‘rugby’ in general, and a World Cup competition would be a key step in achieving that.  There will always be reasons for caution and conservatism, but with rugby league being more appealing to the neutral, my gut is telling me that this is the time to grab the opportunity, bury the fears and run hard with it.

 

Canabull  I am guessing you live in Canada.  As you know there are virtually no RL clubs of any type in the Continent.  As I stated above the benefits of an Rugby League World Cup would then be passed to Rugby Union.  There is no competition between the two because one exists and the other doesn't.  What Union clubs are creating  RL sides? Without plans you don't take silly risks.

 

As far as comparing NFL to League.  I am saying that long term in the UK and Australia the biggest danger to both League and Union is probably the NFL.  With League being more vulnerable. In North America this obviously is a non issue because rugby of both codes will never challenge American Football or probably its Canadian cousin.

[Evil Homer]

Canabull  I am guessing you live in Canada.  As you know there are virtually no RL clubs of any type in the Continent.  As I stated above the benefits of an Rugby League World Cup would then be passed to Rugby Union.  There is no competition between the two because one exists and the other doesn't.  What Union clubs are creating  RL sides? Without plans you don't take silly risks.

 

As far as comparing NFL to League.  I am saying that long term in the UK and Australia the biggest danger to both League and Union is probably the NFL.  With League being more vulnerable. In North America this obviously is a non issue because rugby of both codes will never challenge American Football or probably its Canadian cousin.

Claiming we shouldn't take the WC to the biggest sporting economy in the world because there happen to be some amateur RU teams in the country is frankly one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this forum.

[CanaBull]

Again, with respect,

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/darrenheitner/2015/10/19/sports-industry-to-reach-73-5-billion-by-2019/#10a3c1091585

 

This is the size of the pie expected in a couple of years.

 

In the big scheme of things, RU doesn’t occupy much of the sporting landscape over here either and suffers from a lack of investment in getting players from high school or college into a meaningful club game to representative games.

 

What I’m saying is there is a vehicle to create more demand for ‘rugby’ and regardless of the needle between the codes elsewhere, if it means additional revenue, you can guarantee Americans (and Canadians) will be looking at it.  The old country RU dinosaurs are dying off over here; the only bigots left are the small minority they’ve managed to indoctrinate, and they live in a different peer group.  Now players are looking for challenge and a chance to represent.

 

And, quite honestly, I don’t have a problem with Union benefitting either.  As long as the authorities on either side aren’t trying to hamper each other’s efforts, I’d be thrilled with more rugby being played at a higher standard than it is now.

[USRLFAN]

Evil Homer, on 29 Sept 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

Claiming we shouldn't take the WC to the biggest sporting economy in the world because there happen to be some amateur RU teams in the country is frankly one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this forum.

 

Evil what will be the benefits of the WC in the U.S? There is no league. The only clubs are Union.  You might as well hold it in China. Do you think people will just go and start RL teams.  No leg work has been done. There are less than 24 amateur clubs between the two countries and one pro club starting in 2017.  People don't know what RL is. Do you believe that RL is so powerful that they will be able to fill stadiums in Football season?

[Evil Homer]

Evil what will be the benefits of the WC in the U.S? There is no league. The only clubs are Union.  You might as well hold it in China. Do you think people will just go and start RL teams.  No leg work has been done. There are less than 24 amateur clubs between the two countries and one pro club starting in 2017.  People don't know what RL is. Do you believe that RL is so powerful that they will be able to fill stadiums in Football season?

The benefit would be that we're putting our product's biggest event into the biggest sporting economy in the world. Not sure why you keep saying there isn't a league in the USA when you are fully aware that there is but either way, the goal of the WC is not to boost playing numbers at low-level amateur sporting teams, the goal is to deliver a spectacle and make a profit. If they can do that then why wouldn't the WC be there? If China could do that I would host it in China. Your argument seems to be that because RL is not the number 1 sport in the country then we shouldn't even consider it, which is just ludicrous. Why wouldn't people start teams? People start teams in the USA every year with no motivation or incentive. Why would we need to fill 60,000 seater stadiums for every match when the current WC doesn't even come close to doing that? We could comfortably have the best attended RLWC without it even registering a flicker of mainstream interest there. Or we could have every match at ###### Leigh and Featherstone and get nowhere.

 

To be honest, I thought your initial post was sarcastic and for someone whose username is "USRLFAN" I'm surprised to see you expressing such frankly weird views.

[spinnerhowland]

Why do people think the USARL has any relevance to this at all? It's a relatively low-level amateur competition and NGB and has about as much relevance to this as the 2013 WC and Sally Bolton did to the RFL.

And as the NGB for the sport of Rugby League in the USA, they are the official representative for the Growth and Development of Rugby League at all levels, on behalf of the Rugby League International Federation. 

 

Yes the USARL is small and amateur, as is the current competition, so and the process of vetting and awarding is one of a level that needs to be handled by the RLIF. But if the RLWC is awarded to the USA, then the USARL will need to be consulted, and included as a partner for the event. Just as Canada will be for a partner if games go to Canada. 

 

So to discount it as you did, is somewhat short sighted.

 

Having said that, I am certain the concept, the bid, and the hopes it being awarded, have the complete support of the USARL. 

[spinnerhowland]

Evil what will be the benefits of the WC in the U.S? There is no league. The only clubs are Union.  You might as well hold it in China. Do you think people will just go and start RL teams.  No leg work has been done. There are less than 24 amateur clubs between the two countries and one pro club starting in 2017.  People don't know what RL is. Do you believe that RL is so powerful that they will be able to fill stadiums in Football season?

There has been no leg work done? Really - 

 

And this has been accomplished 100% by Volunteers with no RLIF financial backing at all. Can you imagine what could be done with the professional support that would come from an event like the RWLC. You seem to discount the efforts of the people on the ground in the USA and Canada. Yet in many nations around the world, Rugby League is ONLY GROWING on the backs of dedicated volunteers. 

[Evil Homer]

And as the NGB for the sport of Rugby League in the USA, they are the official representative for the Growth and Development of Rugby League at all levels, on behalf of the Rugby League International Federation. 

 

Yes the USARL is small and amateur, as is the current competition, so and the process of vetting and awarding is one of a level that needs to be handled by the RLIF. But if the RLWC is awarded to the USA, then the USARL will need to be consulted, and included as a partner for the event. Just as Canada will be for a partner if games go to Canada. 

 

So to discount it as you did, is somewhat short sighted.

 

Having said that, I am certain the concept, the bid, and the hopes it being awarded, have the complete support of the USARL. 

I understand the importance of the USARL being on board but in realistic and practical terms they would be largely immaterial to a successful bid and competition. I've seen people suggesting that matches should be in places with USARL teams etc when the fact is that the USARL's scope and impact would be so small in comparison to the RLWC that it would be virtually irrelevant. Again, this isn't meant to discount the USARL, it's just the reality of the situation, with the existing USARL talking about a reach of a few thousand people at max which would be a drop in the ocean compared to a successful RLWC.

[Utility Man]

......and do you know what, I've played, coached and loved this sport for nearly 40 years and that video from Spinner is what it's all about!! Absolutely brilliant attitude. Not sure where I stand on the bid just yet but for now I'm just loving what's being achieved by good RL people on the ground..

[USRLFAN]

 Your argument seems to be that because RL is not the number 1 sport in the country then we shouldn't even consider it, which is just ludicrous.

 

That's not my argument at all.  It's not even the 100th most popular sport in the country.  The tiddlywinks championship probably gets more eyeballs than the NRL.  If you wanted to hold the World Handball championship in the U.S I would say the same thing to that bid as well.

 

 

 Not sure why you keep saying there isn't a league in the USA when you are fully aware that there is but either way,

 

That's a tiny amateur league as you have stated.

 

 

The benefit would be that we're putting our product's biggest event into the biggest sporting economy in the world.

 

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there it hear it. Did it really fall?

 

 

Or we could have every match at ###### Leigh and Featherstone and get nowhere.

 

London and Manchester are not Leigh and Featherstone.  I don't think Post office road will see many games in a WC.

 

 

, the goal of the WC is not to boost playing numbers at low-level amateur sporting teams, the goal is to deliver a spectacle and make a profit. If they can do that then why wouldn't the WC be there? If China could do that I would host it in China.

I agree on profit which is why I think Englands bid is a good idea and would be profitable.  I disagree on boosting participation and support numbers.  I think a vital component of the RLWC should be to boost participation and support the domestic league of the country that is hosting.  I don't believe a viable pro league will come about from this.  Especially with Toronto being in League 1 and Jacksonville not included at all.

 

 

.

To be honest, I thought your initial post was sarcastic and for someone whose username is "USRLFAN" I'm surprised to see you expressing such frankly weird views.

 

I don't tug my forelock when "rich investors" present a plan which I see as faulty and detrimental to the game. 

[USRLFAN]

 

And this has been accomplished 100% by Volunteers with no RLIF financial backing at all. Can you imagine what could be done with the professional support that would come from an event like the RWLC. You seem to discount the efforts of the people on the ground in the USA and Canada. Yet in many nations around the world, Rugby League is ONLY GROWING on the backs of dedicated volunteers. 

No Spinner I acknowledge that a group of dedicated volunteers has led the development in most non RL countries.  Its one of the reasons why support is so low, it would be great if the RILF would give grants and other support.  But since this foundation has not been created.  I don't think a WC would work.

 

You yourself acknowledged that you don't think it could be a success in Football season.  Are you back tracking from that now? Why wasn't Jacksonville included in the bid?  It is the one place in the U.S where RL can get a decent draw as you have shown time and time again.

[RLWC2021USA]

No Spinner I acknowledge that a group of dedicated volunteers has led the development in most non RL countries.  Its one of the reasons why support is so low, it would be great if the RILF would give grants and other support.  But since this foundation has not been created.  I don't think a WC would work.

 

You yourself acknowledged that you don't think it could be a success in Football season.  Are you back tracking from that now? Why wasn't Jacksonville included in the bid?  It is the one place in the U.S where RL can get a decent draw as you have shown time and time again.

 

 

FYI - Jacksonville will be consulted and offered the opportunity to participate if the bid is won.  Just this past week, we've received additional inquiries from Seattle  (including a letter of support) as well as the Los Angeles Coliseum (another letter of support) and just today, Gillette Stadium (where the Patriots play).  

 

There is no shortage of cities/venues that want to be a part of the Rugby League World Cup in 2021.  They all feature world class stadiums (that don't require government funding) with dynamic marketing platforms and databases.  Some make more sense than others (Boston area might be too cold in November; Orlando doesn't have an NFL team but Jacksonville does) - that's all part of the planning / RFP process that will follow.

[Evil Homer]

I don't tug my forelock when "rich investors" present a plan which I see as faulty and detrimental to the game. 

 

Lol, you don't even know what the plan is. You're ranted and raved about how you think it's going to be a dreadful failure based on virtually no information, made some nonsensical comments about RU and then tried to claim that RL has no league and is less popular than tiddlywinks, which is not true but once again would be completely irrelevant because the bid would not ever be centered around the few thousand people that currently follow the sport in the USA. There are questions that need to be answered before we can consider this bid a goer, but they are not the questions you've raised which again are nothing more than frankly bizarre ramblings, not sure if you have some sort of personal vendetta or grudge or something but I can't see a shred of logic or reason in your posts. If you have any interest whatsoever in growing the sport then you could not possibly see this as 'detrimental' in any way, shape or form.

[USRLFAN]

Evil Homer, on 29 Sept 2016 - 3:14 PM, said:

Lol, you don't even know what the plan is. You're ranted and raved about how you think it's going to be a dreadful failure based on virtually no information,

 

I have the same info as you and you support the plan. Couldn't you say you were doing the exact same thing as me. You are supporting the plan based off the info that has been released.  I am not supporting the plan based on the info that has been released. Or do you have other info that we don't know about? We all decide to support or not support the plan based off of the info given.  The decision will be made during the 4 nations.  Therefore I am trying to have my voice heard before then. Or should we just let our betters decide everything and we just sit on our hands. Again you are genuflecting to wealthy people.

 

 

Evil Homer, on 29 Sept 2016 - 3:14 PM, said:

 made some nonsensical comments about RU and then tried to claim that RL has no league and is less popular than tiddlywinks, which is not true but once again would be completely irrelevant because the bid would not ever be centered around the few thousand people that currently follow the sport in the USA.

So a if sport that has a few thousand followers as you acknowledged.  How is it nonsensical to compare it to tiddlywinks or something else very minor?  The population of the country is 320 million, a few thousand followers would mean that it is an incredible minor sport.  I don't know the participation numbers of tiddlywinks but its probably more than that!  Its hard for me make a comparison to a real sport of that size, maybe team handball I honestly don't know.  Do you think in 5 years they will be able to raise the profile of RL from a few thousand enough to hold an event of this size in the middle of football season to get good crowds? 

 

 

 

Lol,. If you have any interest whatsoever in growing the sport then you could not possibly see this as 'detrimental' in any way, shape or form.

From this quote and others it sounds like you are a supporter of this bid. So based off of exactly the same info that has been released you have a go at me for not supporting the bid but its ok for you to support the bid with exactly the same info.  What kind of logic is that!  In your world one can have only one opinion which is supporting the bid.

[Sports Prophet]

In theory "USARLFAN", RU will be doing all the legwork in developing players for a professional North American RL. Don't forget how the sport of RL began in Australia. Professional clubs were created with no junior or amateur RL to develop grassroots players. A mirror example of the potential movement here, to which you hold so much concern.

This is a reasonably good Top Down model. I imagine Moore Sport International would be utilising a WC in order to create and own a commercially profitable professional RL competition in North America. If the RLIF, RFL and NRL cannot suitably invest in the sport to grow the game in new overseas markets, then MSI is a great opportunity for the sport to expand, with minimal financial risk.

[Evil Homer]

I have the same info as you and you support the plan. Couldn't you say you were doing the exact same thing as me. You are supporting the plan based off the info that has been released.  I am not supporting the plan based on the info that has been released. Or do you have other info that we don't know about? We all decide to support or not support the plan based off of the info given.  The decision will be made during the 4 nations.  Therefore I am trying to have my voice heard before then. Or should we just let our betters decide everything and we just sit on our hands. Again you are genuflecting to wealthy people.

 

From this quote and others it sounds like you are a supporter of this bid. So based off of exactly the same info that has been released you have a go at me for not supporting the bid but its ok for you to support the bid with exactly the same info.  What kind of logic is that!  In your world one can have only one opinion which is supporting the bid.

I'm not for or against the bid because I don't know enough about it. If it's viable and they can deliver the things that they say they can then I would be all for it, it would be crazy not to be. You on the other hand seem to be rabidly against it for reasons that are at best speculative and at worst don't make any sense at all. It seems like you're desperately looking and scratching around for reasons to discredit this, which again is pretty strange to me unless you have some type of agenda.

 

 So a if sport that has a few thousand followers as you acknowledged.  How is it nonsensical to compare it to tiddlywinks or something else very minor?  The population of the country is 320 million, a few thousand followers would mean that it is an incredible minor sport.  I don't know the participation numbers of tiddlywinks but its probably more than that!  Its hard for me make a comparison to a real sport of that size, maybe team handball I honestly don't know.  Do you think in 5 years they will be able to raise the profile of RL from a few thousand enough to hold an event of this size in the middle of football season to get good crowds?

There is literally no precedent for major RL events in the USA, the handful of one-off exhibition matches involving foreign teams we've had have attracted over 10,000 fans with relative ease. It wouldn't take much more than that to better the average attendance for the RLWC. Comparing it to the likes of tiddlywinks and handball which have absolutely no credibility as a spectator sport anywhere in the world is ridiculous. Participation numbers have nothing at all to do with how many people turn up for a one-off event.

[USRLFAN]

I'm not for or against the bid because I don't know enough about it. If it's viable and they can deliver the things that they say they can then I would be all for it, it would be crazy not to be. You on the other hand seem to be rabidly against it for reasons that are at best speculative and at worst don't make any sense at all. It seems like you're desperately looking and scratching around for reasons to discredit this, which again is pretty strange to me unless you have some type of agenda.

 

Look They asked us to support the bid.  Therefore if they want people to support the bid with the info that they released. It is completely fair game to not support the bid based of the info released.  So based off the information that has been released I am not supporting the bid.   Just as they would have us support the bid based off of the info given.  So if you think we should all withhold judgement until our superiors at the RIFL make a decision then you should be having a go at them for asking us to support the bid with the  limited info they have given.

 

 

There is literally no precedent for major RL events in the USA, the handful of one-off exhibition matches involving foreign teams we've had have attracted over 10,000 fans with relative ease. It wouldn't take much more than that to better the average attendance for the RLWC. Comparing it to the likes of tiddlywinks and handball which have absolutely no credibility as a spectator sport anywhere in the world is ridiculous. Participation numbers have nothing at all to do with how many people turn up for a one-off event.

1987 state of Origin exhibition drew 7,000 spectators with them giving away most tickets. There has been one exhibition match which drew over 10,000 the 2008 Leeds v rabbitohs.  I don't know about Wigan Warrington in 89.  It not a one off event its 30 matches.  Team handball is an Olympic sport and very popular in Europe.   It most likely has way more participants than Rugby League in the U.S.

 

 

In theory "USARLFAN", RU will be doing all the legwork in developing players for a professional North American RL. Don't forget how the sport of RL began in Australia. Professional clubs were created with no junior or amateur RL to develop grassroots players. A mirror example of the potential movement here, to which you hold so much concern.

This is a reasonably good Top Down model. I imagine Moore Sport International would be utilising a WC in order to create and own a commercially profitable professional RL competition in North America. If the RLIF, RFL and NRL cannot suitably invest in the sport to grow the game in new overseas markets, then MSI is a great opportunity for the sport to expand, with minimal financial risk.

That is probably their idea.  I don't think that can happen. If it were it would be unique in north American sports.   Which all have strong junior development programs.  And in fact as I stated before there are sports such as Lacrosse and Volleyball which have thriving junior and collegiate competitions which struggle to maintain a professional league.  I think the Union participants would look to join the Union pro league which started this year not the theoretical RL league.

[Evil Homer]

1987 state of Origin exhibition drew 7,000 spectators with them giving away most tickets. There has been one exhibition match which drew over 10,000 the 2008 Leeds v rabbitohs.  I don't know about Wigan Warrington in 89.  It not a one off event its 30 matches.  Team handball is an Olympic sport and very popular in Europe.   It most likely has way more participants than Rugby League in the U.S.

SOO had 12,000. Wigan v Warrington in 89 had 18,000. These were meaningless preseason games involving foreign club sides that nobody had ever heard of. 60,000 people turned up to watch a RU international last year. The USA has a track record of supporting events. The 1994 soccer WC is still the highest attended in history despite soccer being a minority sport in the country at the time. Even if the proposed RLWC stadiums were only a quarter full it would still be the biggest attended RLWC of all time. Handball is a stupid and redundant comparison because for starters it's played on courts which makes it inaccessible to spectators, even in the countries where it's extremely popular it only gets attendances of around 4,000 because of the nature of the sport and the arenas in which it's played, it's never going to be a commercial spectator product.

 

You've made no attempts to provide anything constructive here, offered no alternatives on how you think we should proceed, you've just said it shouldn't happen because the USARL isn't a big professional league, which is a totally idiotic argument. Not supporting the bid or being skeptical is fine, you seem to be inordinately against it and actively clutching at straws for reasons to discredit it.

[USRLFAN]

Evil Homer, on 29 Sept 2016 - 9:06 PM, said:Evil Homer, on 29 Sept 2016 - 9:06 PM, said:

 Handball is a stupid and redundant comparison because for starters it's played on courts which makes it inaccessible to spectators, even in the countries where it's extremely popular it only gets attendances of around 4,000 because of the nature of the sport and the arenas in which it's played, it's never going to be a commercial spectator product.

 

Team Handball is very popular in Europe and to a lesser degree in South America and Rugby League would be lucky to have its global reach. The top players get paid very good salaries.  The TV audiences for the world championships, European championships are much bigger than RLWC.  It is a "commercial spectator product". The Spanish ACB basketball league only averages about 6,000 fans and its probably the 2nd best league in the world, certainly a commercially viable product. Anyway that is a tangent, The reason I brought it up in this thread was to give an example of major sport that was smaller in the U.S then rugby league.

 

 

Evil Homer, on 29 Sept 2016 - 9:06 PM, said:Evil Homer, on 29 Sept 2016 - 9:06 PM, said:

 

You've made no attempts to provide anything constructive here, offered no alternatives on how you think we should proceed, you've just said it shouldn't happen because the USARL isn't a big professional league, which is a totally idiotic argument. Not supporting the bid or being skeptical is fine, you seem to be inordinately against it and actively clutching at straws for reasons to discredit it.

  In total there are currently less than 24 clubs of any type in the two countries. As you said its followed by a few thousand. I think deciding to hold a major sporting event of not one or two games but 28 with that low of participation and knowledge of the game is a mistake.  I don't think that is clutching at straws I think that's a big deal and one of the main reasons why it won't work.

 

 

Evil Homer, on 29 Sept 2016 - 9:06 PM, said:Evil Homer, on 29 Sept 2016 - 9:06 PM, said:

 The USA has a track record of supporting events. The 1994 soccer WC is still the highest attended in history despite soccer being a minority sport in the country at the time. .

 

I take it your an American so I don't need to tell you the position on Soccer in the U.S in 1994.  Comparing to where RL in the U.S is to the position soccer was in 94 is a complete joke.  Soccer was probably much bigger in 1894 in the states than RL is in the US now.  But the enormous amount of junior development was just one of the many reasons why 94 was a success.

 

Evil Homer, on 29 Sept 2016 - 9:06 PM, said:Evil Homer, on 29 Sept 2016 - 9:06 PM, said:

 

You've made no attempts to provide anything constructive here, offered no alternatives on how you think we should proceed, you've just said it shouldn't happen because the USARL isn't a big professional league, which is a totally idiotic argument. Not supporting the bid or being skeptical is fine, you seem to be inordinately against it and actively clutching at straws for reasons to discredit it.

 

That's not what the thread is about its about. It's about the bid not plans for U.S development. But as I said briefly start with at least one NRL game a year in the U.S, followed perhaps by a group in a RLWC, than maybe an NRL team. As to my agenda  You got me I'm a secret agent from Red Hall.

[MEXICO WILL PAY]

SOO had 12,000. Wigan v Warrington in 89 had 18,000. These were meaningless preseason games involving foreign club sides that nobody had ever heard of. 60,000 people turned up to watch a RU international last year. The USA has a track record of supporting events. The 1994 soccer WC is still the highest attended in history despite soccer being a minority sport in the country at the time. Even if the proposed RLWC stadiums were only a quarter full it would still be the biggest attended RLWC of all time. Handball is a stupid and redundant comparison because for starters it's played on courts which makes it inaccessible to spectators, even in the countries where it's extremely popular it only gets attendances of around 4,000 because of the nature of the sport and the arenas in which it's played, it's never going to be a commercial spectator product.

 

You've made no attempts to provide anything constructive here, offered no alternatives on how you think we should proceed, you've just said it shouldn't happen because the USARL isn't a big professional league, which is a totally idiotic argument. Not supporting the bid or being skeptical is fine, you seem to be inordinately against it and actively clutching at straws for reasons to discredit it.

 

 Basketball and ice hockey seem to manage just fine despite being played on similar sized courts.

[Fabou]

USRLFAN... Can you please stop saying that the NFL is the king of sports... 

"if he NFL comes to London... they will rock London", '

"if the NFL comes to Manchester, RL is in danger" 

"if the NFL comes to sydney, the NRL will die..." 

"if the NFL goes to china, all the chinese will stop eating rice"

are you done with these " ***** " analyses?

 

If the NFL could do it with its billions dollars, they would have done it. do you think that the entire world will "buy" this sport (which has some great aspects, no doubt..but..)? In France, they can expend as much as they want, we will not play it. do you really think that NFL is THE global sport? as far as i know, only north amercia is really into it. In Europe, EVERY SPORTS leave in the shadow of SOCCER. USA is developping RU (and RL) really fast... much much much much faster than the NFL in Europe... Except for one night of superball i dont think people in Europe really get intrested into th NFL. 

 

We get your point. you think that the RL network is not tight enough to take the benefit from hosting a World Cup. But i disagree. I come from France. a country where Union managed to take "all the cake of rugby" despite our League history that was not so long ago. If we can create some legacy for League rigth now in the USA, lets do it. The Union clubs might take a little advantage. so what? mabe the main advantage for RL is that hosting a successfull WC will rise intrest and lead to th creation of more teams for the USARL.... more teams, more players, more sponsor, and if they manage to have a Pro League, the College and University might follow. 

 

I come from a country where RL should have embrassed Professionalism, TV countracts, Marketings in the same time than RU. Do you know why France did not "bid" for the WC in 2021? because we do not have what it takes. We have more history, more players, more clubs than the USA and Canada all together. Sure. but nobody will bet on RL, no TV channel, no event organiser. And when I watch the NRL, I know that RL is a great TV product.  

 

I get your concerns about the real success of a WC in the USA/Canada... but we have to take the chance, we have to develop international game. I dont know how serious is this Bid from USA/Canada, but the least i can do is getting intrested and not be afraid.

 

Give an opportunity to play pro RL (not big wages as a start) to players in 14-16 teams in the USA with a ok-quality video coverage.. seen the fans from the axemen, i think they will get more and more interest and budget....  and then RU might feel the danger coming (and will react).

 

you can turn a RU fan into RL fan. the opposite is not true.

and i know what you are thinking: you can turn a RL player into a RU player, the opposite is more difficult. 

 

but the fan experience, the fan entertainment is what matters, and with a "rugby almost virgin" market like noth america, all is for the taken. 

[Toby Chopra]

If the 2021 RLWC isn't held in the UK and France, I would suggest it would be very detrimental to the health of the game here . Arguably Europe is still a developing market itself where the sport's profile needs to be given a boost in a rapidly changing sporting environment.

 

If the powers that be don't maintain at least the pretence that RL is a top level world sport, and hold events reflecting that here, then the risk of sliding into terminal decline as a shrinking regional game will be hard to stop.They don't do a great job as it is, as recent history has shown.

 

Can you imagine how few UK people will watch a US World Cup on TV with games starting at midnight or later here (and probably on a satellite channel). It would barely register. And all around the time a new Superleague TV contract deal needs to be done.

 

I'm sure there will be opportunities to host big events in N America (Confed Cup maybe?) I wish we were strong enough to take the risk. But we're not. A RLWC with at least some games on the BBC is the one thing that moves the dial outside the heartlands, and we actually can't afford not to have it here. 

[brooza]

If the powers that be don't maintain at least the pretence that RL is a top level world sport, and hold events reflecting that here, then the risk of sliding into terminal decline as a shrinking regional game will be hard to stop.They don't do a great job as it is, as recent history has shown.

By continuing to alternate the WC between 2 countries (plus a couple of nearby countries for group matches)?