Why RL will never really grow internationally

[IM2]

This is a very simple answer. International RL plays a distant second fiddle to the club game in the 2 main countries and 2 peripheral ones. England/France & Australia/NZ.

 

The club game is all important and the international game is shoe horned into the calendar. Never in a constant manner, too much tinkering and changing. Scores are too high, crowds too low blah blah. As long as that is the case then the game will never grow much outside what it always has been. Its also the case why other sports are leaving us behind. Unions first WC only had a hand full of sell outs and a few games live on TV, revenues tiny compared to now. That was only 1987!

 

Other sports main show case are the world cups/international game and everything is built around  and underpins that. Soccer, cricket, rugby union and so on. With satellite TV paying huge revenues having a top class international calendar alongside club and regional competitions like Champions League & Unions European cups this grows the game massively locally and to new countries and regions.

 

Our game is too parochial as it stands. The domestic games need to make way for comprehensive and regular internationals EVERY season not one offs. Not tours one year, 4 nations the next, nothing the next then the WC? Before global TV parochial is fine. Now it makes us look small fry & inconsequential.

 

How can England get any better if they never play anyone regularly and wonder why we get beat by teams with better resources and higher level comps & chiefly each other to play each year which solidifies their strengths and stops England getting any better. How can France get any better when they only know they are playing England when it suits us and its always last minute.

 

What did Saturday & last 4 nations in Oz show us. Basically Scotland can turn up with a scratch team and put on a show. Samoa are closer and can put an NRL team out and are not far away. They can do it cos to play 4N the NRL & RFL have to fund it as a one off & clubs allow players to play for the minnows and then the year later no money & dummed down squads with lower level players. How can any country progress like that.

 

Samoa, Fiji, PNG, Tonga, Scotland, Ireland, France & Wales can all progress but they need the same support and resources that they get in 4N or WC years. Invest at that level then we will get somewhere. Over time they need to aim to be self sufficient but it will take decades.

 

for me Scotland v Oz 54 - 12 is amazing plus the England result. Basically a bunch of lads thrown together can basically compete. imagine what they could do if they played the international calendar & resources that the rugby union guys get. its no coincidence that Argentina, Italy and so on are now up there and more importantly getting big crowds when they play home or away. its taken time and investment, but on and off field results are there.

 

we also need to stop getting hung up on results. last year the all blacks played USA at Soldier fields and got beat 90+ to nil infront of a packed 62k. no one said it was a waste of time. on the contrary Ireland played their on the weekend and beat the all blacks for the first time in their history!!!!! in front of 62k! incredible. japan beat SA in the last WC. 20 years ago AB beat them 130! 

 

so what do we do

 

- aim to give a proper calendar where all the main nations play each other each year at least 5 matches

- accept results dont really matter and we carry on no matter what

- give the same resources to the tier 2 nations they get for 4N & WC & access to the same players

- limit the number of games SL & NRL players can play a season, expand squads, make room for players to play those 5 games, pay them decent money to play for ALL nations

- get a broadcaster and governments to pay for it. treat it like a tournament or WC, if we have a good business plan they have something to invest in

- for me the WC is definitely on track & our key tool to succeed here, but the years between WCs is whats needed to be fixed now

- WC challenge is massively important. Play it in key new target markets tho. Dubai, Qatar, China, Russia, SA etc. US & SA have bid for WCs. make them make a success of this game to prove their capabilities

- give real money & money making capabilities to the world governing bodies

 

anyway thats my thoughts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bazza_merged]

- aim to give a proper calendar where all the main nations play each other each year at least 5 matches

- accept results dont really matter and we carry on no matter what

- give the same resources to the tier 2 nations they get for 4N & WC & access to the same players

- limit the number of games SL & NRL players can play a season, expand squads, make room for players to play those 5 games, pay them decent money to play for ALL nations

- get a broadcaster and governments to pay for it. treat it like a tournament or WC, if we have a good business plan they have something to invest in

- for me the WC is definitely on track & our key tool to succeed here, but the years between WCs is whats needed to be fixed now

- WC challenge is massively important. Play it in key new target markets tho. Dubai, Qatar, China, Russia, SA etc. US & SA have bid for WCs. make them make a success of this game to prove their capabilities

- give real money & money making capabilities to the world governing bodies

 

anyway thats my thoughts.

 

- Having 4 nations regularly gives at least 3 games to the major nations. Australia and NZ manage to usually organise a match during the season and at the end of the season each year

- There is a calendar of regular internationals planned and it should go ahead regardless of a single game results

- The years between WCs should contain qualifiers for the next WC and any 4N tournament

[Futtocks]

The internet has lifted the iron curtain of broadcasters' opinions of what we ought to be watching. Outside oppressive countries where the state controls what you can find online, people can access match footage and even good-quality training videos for any sport wherever there's a signal.

 

MMA is a sport that really grew off internet streamed videos, for instance.

 

The growth is slow and (because RL is not a rich sport) will continue to be slow for many years to come, but is has gained critical mass. But we need to have patience. It will take decades for a new nation to become a major force in the game, but it will happen. I may not be alive to see it, but it will come.

[LionelHurst]

Good and knowledgeable posts. I wonder if we would progress more if we had the right leadership.Are Wood Barwick Watkins for example of sufficient quality?

[Copa]

International rugby league has grown more this last decade than at any other time in history.

[Exiled Wiganer]

We have a strategy. It is on the RLIF web site and looks sensible. The broadcasting deal and calendar of events for the next 8 years will be voted on at the RLIF conference in Liverpool. Collier is the key man alongside John Grant for delivering the international game.

We have never had it so good and have never hd enough cash and buy in from the NRL before to run an independent fairly well resourced RLIF. I am filled with optimism. As for other games we can only do what we do. We are who we are.

[The Daddy]

This is a very simple answer. International RL plays a distant second fiddle to the club game in the 2 main countries and 2 peripheral ones. England/France & Australia/NZ.

The club game is all important and the international game is shoe horned into the calendar. Never in a constant manner, too much tinkering and changing. Scores are too high, crowds too low blah blah. As long as that is the case then the game will never grow much outside what it always has been. Its also the case why other sports are leaving us behind. Unions first WC only had a hand full of sell outs and a few games live on TV, revenues tiny compared to now. That was only 1987!

Other sports main show case are the world cups/international game and everything is built around and underpins that. Soccer, cricket, rugby union and so on. With satellite TV paying huge revenues having a top class international calendar alongside club and regional competitions like Champions League & Unions European cups this grows the game massively locally and to new countries and regions.

Our game is too parochial as it stands. The domestic games need to make way for comprehensive and regular internationals EVERY season not one offs. Not tours one year, 4 nations the next, nothing the next then the WC? Before global TV parochial is fine. Now it makes us look small fry & inconsequential.

How can England get any better if they never play anyone regularly and wonder why we get beat by teams with better resources and higher level comps & chiefly each other to play each year which solidifies their strengths and stops England getting any better. How can France get any better when they only know they are playing England when it suits us and its always last minute.

What did Saturday & last 4 nations in Oz show us. Basically Scotland can turn up with a scratch team and put on a show. Samoa are closer and can put an NRL team out and are not far away. They can do it cos to play 4N the NRL & RFL have to fund it as a one off & clubs allow players to play for the minnows and then the year later no money & dummed down squads with lower level players. How can any country progress like that.

Samoa, Fiji, PNG, Tonga, Scotland, Ireland, France & Wales can all progress but they need the same support and resources that they get in 4N or WC years. Invest at that level then we will get somewhere. Over time they need to aim to be self sufficient but it will take decades.

for me Scotland v Oz 54 - 12 is amazing plus the England result. Basically a bunch of lads thrown together can basically compete. imagine what they could do if they played the international calendar & resources that the rugby union guys get. its no coincidence that Argentina, Italy and so on are now up there and more importantly getting big crowds when they play home or away. its taken time and investment, but on and off field results are there.

we also need to stop getting hung up on results. last year the all blacks played USA at Soldier fields and got beat 90+ to nil infront of a packed 62k. no one said it was a waste of time. on the contrary Ireland played their on the weekend and beat the all blacks for the first time in their history!!!!! in front of 62k! incredible. japan beat SA in the last WC. 20 years ago AB beat them 130!

so what do we do

- aim to give a proper calendar where all the main nations play each other each year at least 5 matches

- accept results dont really matter and we carry on no matter what

- give the same resources to the tier 2 nations they get for 4N & WC & access to the same players

- limit the number of games SL & NRL players can play a season, expand squads, make room for players to play those 5 games, pay them decent money to play for ALL nations

- get a broadcaster and governments to pay for it. treat it like a tournament or WC, if we have a good business plan they have something to invest in

- for me the WC is definitely on track & our key tool to succeed here, but the years between WCs is whats needed to be fixed now

- WC challenge is massively important. Play it in key new target markets tho. Dubai, Qatar, China, Russia, SA etc. US & SA have bid for WCs. make them make a success of this game to prove their capabilities

- give real money & money making capabilities to the world governing bodies

anyway thats my thoughts.

Spot on, what will help is a mid season international window of say three weeks in the peak of summer, it needs to happen. As you say the international teams need to play more and they can improve having played more games.

[Exiled Wiganer]

There is going to be a mid season international window where internationals take precedence over club games.

[The Daddy]

There is going to be a mid season international window where internationals take precedence over club games.

Is that an opinion or based on facts?

[Hornetto]

I think part of the answer is in the bit about Ireland beating the All Blacks after 111 years - and in a friendly at that.

I'm no great watcher of Ireland RU so could well be wrong but I've never seen them dismissed as a waste of time. Yet that's exactly what we hear about international RL - from its own followers.

 

Watched this with interest at the weekend - and was reminded that Scotland RU haver never beaten the All-Blacks in over 30 attempts. So teams deemed 'strong' in their 6-Nations comp can't hack it at international level either. In three of the four nations we have over a century of 'catching-up' to do and, while progress seems frustratingly slow, there does appear to be progress.

Maybe focusing resource on developing the domestic game in one region of Ireland/Scotland might pay dividends? It worked in England for 100 years. Identifying areas where *nion has less of a footprint might help?

 

I'm also an advocate of putting games into stadia that we can get close to filling. It just 'feels' better to have a near sell-out in a smaller venue than rattle round in a 'showcase stadium'.

Not entirely sure that a double-header at Coventry worked for me. A big tick on drawing a few thousand midlanders, but two games played in 15,000 capacity stadia might have drawn a larger overall total of supporters (and, thus, larger revenues).

Not griping, just observing.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Is that an opinion or based on facts?

It is based on the words in the new RLIF manual and plan for the next 8 years.

[Farmduck]

I wish people would read the RLIF Strategic Plan before they start these threads.

http://www.rlif.com/ignite_docs/RLIF-Strategic%20Plan%202015-2025%2018pp%20LR.pdf

[longboard]

I wish people would read the RLIF Strategic Plan before they start these threads.

http://www.rlif.com/ignite_docs/RLIF-Strategic%20Plan%202015-2025%2018pp%20LR.pdf

 

Don't come on here bringing knowledge. 

[MatthewWoody]

Scotland is fully made of heritage players. 
Still can't see why nobody noticed it for them or Ireland, while never forget to mention it when it comes to speak about Italy. 

Italy is "growing" just like Scotland, if not more. 

[Farmduck]

Scotland is fully made of heritage players. 

Still can't see why nobody noticed it for them or Ireland, while never forget to mention it when it comes to speak about Italy. 

Italy is "growing" just like Scotland, if not more. 

As American deep thinker John McEnroe often said, "You cannot be serious!"

[deluded pom?]

Whatever happened to druzik by the way?

Last I heard (a couple of years ago) he gained a ball and chain. He quite often moves around with his job too.

[MatthewWoody]

I think something a lot of RL fans forget or don't acknowledge, is that not everyone has as much knowledge of the game as them. So a game between say Ireland and Wales (not heritage players) may be written off by many RL fans as second rate and 'not England v Australia' but to Joe or Jo Bloggs it could be seen as very exciting (assuming the sides are like for like).

I think RL fans can be too jaded and pessimistic about things and that's how they come across to others who might naively think something could be interesting. Its a bit of a vicious circle. I think international RL is really interesting at the moment and its probably where some other sports were 50-60 years ago or more. Forget the big stadiums and stuff for a minute. 13 guys playing in a roped off field in Bulgaria could be more important in the scheme of things. Exciting times if you look deeper.

Whatever happened to druzik by the way?

It would be a very low level game...

[MatthewWoody]

As American deep thinker John McEnroe often said, "You cannot be serious!"

Well, I follow a lot social media about RL and still see less people condemning the use of heritage players by the Scots or Samoa (quoted here as an example of a nation who's coming close to the top...With heritage players...), comparing with the polemics made about the Italo-Australian players. 

[Farmduck]

Well, I follow a lot social media about RL and still see less people condemning the use of heritage players by the Scots or Samoa (quoted here as an example of a nation who's coming close to the top...With heritage players...), comparing with the polemics made about the Italo-Australian players. 

I haven't done a count but there were many - probably 50+ - comments on this forum over the last month about the legitimacy of Scotland. I know I wrote at least 10 of them over the last year and many other posters have also pointed out that Scotland doesn't even have the domestic league to qualify for full membership of the RLEF/RLIF and thus, shouldn't have even been competing in the qualifying tournament that got them to this 4N, let alone the fact that, by finishing in the final 8 at RLWC2013, they could also qualify for RLWC2017.

 

I have also pointed out repeatedly that in the last few years, only 1 Samoan-born player has played for Samoa and that in the 2015 Pacific Tests, only 3 non-AUS or NZ players made it into the Samoan and Tongan teams.

[MEXICO WILL PAY]

RL will only really grow when it will finally start laying foundations, instead of masquerading a bunch of Australians and Englishers as American, Irish, Scottish, Italian, etc...

That time during the last RLWC when an Italian media outlet was interviewing the "Italian" players in English because between the whole squad there wasn't a single guy that could speak Italian was the most pathetic moment in international sport.

[deluded pom?]

 

That time during the last RLWC when an Italian media outlet was interviewing the "Italian" players in English because between the whole squad there wasn't a single guy that could speak Italian was the most pathetic moment in international sport.

That's the first time I've ever heard that. Do you have a link?

[MatthewWoody]

RL will only really grow when it will finally start laying foundations, instead of masquerading a bunch of Australians and Englishers as American, Irish, Scottish, Italian, etc...

That time during the last RLWC when an Italian media outlet was interviewing the "Italian" players in English because between the whole squad there wasn't a single guy that could speak Italian was the most pathetic moment in international sport.

1) You'd have a 5 time RLWC, playing only players who are "really" Irish, Tongan, Italian etc. 

2) Otherwise, it'd te a WC full of amateur players playing against SL and NRL players, with cricket scores and NOBODY would come to see it, stadium or tv. 

3) How these cricket scores would help the game grow I don't know...

4) The game is played professionally in 2 states in Australia, 2 counties in England, one or two cities in France and 1 island in NZ. How do you expect International RL to be? 

About the interview:

So, it changes because of the language difference. 

Scotland, England, Irelanda and Australia share the same language so it's ok? 

I can't see how something like it is "the most pathetic moment in international sport" and not Saturday Scotland starting XIII. 

If people spoke Italian and not English Down Under, it would have been ok? 

Folks, sometimes you forgot what you're talking about. 

You're talking about a game that is not worldwide and still needs to have some king of International scene with close matches that involve professional player. 

Scotland v Italy's been maybe the best game last WC. 

Do you think people would have come to see a game v amateurs, or then the Kiwis winning 250-0 to an amateur Scottish team? 

People want to see good games of footy, with close scores. 

 

Then, there is A LOT of International footy for homegrown players but we can't have the pinnacle of our sport with amateur players losing 250-0 to NZ or England or AUS. 

Or at least, plese don't say that would make International RL grow cause you're like to yourselves. 

 

Still, can't see how Italian interview in English is more patethic than the Scots or Samoa. I'll wait for an explanation...

---

 

Btw, you don't know about Italy RL fans in Australia and how Italian-Australian love this squad. 

It is most known and followed Down Under than in Italy, were few people know about RL. 

 

They're developing and working on the territory, with a championship, stages, but it is not easy having to share players with RU (which often don't make them play) and with amateur players. 

I can't see how having non professional players losing 250-0 would help Int RL. 

 

---

 

We gotta be realistic: the only way to have some kind of watchable world cup is through heritage players, who chose to play often for free and to honour their family heritage. 

 

Plus there are the other International matches and the likes of Italy, Ireland etc. played a lot of games and tour with local players. But there's a huge gap between their level and the World Cup. 

 

---

 

Remove heritage players and you'd have...How many "National" team for the WC? 

 

1) England

2) Australia

3) NZ

 

4) PNG

5) France

6) Wales? Not sure. They also play several English born guys. 

 

And we all know 4 and 5 can't be the first 3. 

Forget the others, who would lose by cricket scores. 

 

How a World Cup like this would help the game of from where you'd take the money for local work without RLWC TV generated money, is beyond me...

[tim2]

Can you imagine any other sport where a final eliminator for a World Cup was played in a country hundreds of miles away from either of the participants in front of a low crowd with minimal publicity.

[MatthewWoody]

Depends what eyes you're looking through though. Someone not steeped in RL might just think it's great (as like for like RL generally is)

So you're saying non EL educated people would fine a low level and slow game more interesting to a game played by pro athletes, because of the accents? 

[MatthewWoody]

Can you imagine any other sport where a final eliminator for a World Cup was played in a country hundreds of miles away from either of the participants in front of a low crowd with minimal publicity.

I can't imagine a sport played professionally in so few countries...

Apart from Aussie Rules and maybe Netball.