13 Nov: Nations: England v Australia KO 2pm

[League Express]

Discuss the Four Nations game England v Australia here.

[St Reatham]

England to win by 12 points

[GeordieSaint]

England to win by 13pts... 

[GaryO]

Heart wants an England victory, head says "it ain't gonna happen"

I think that England can step up a gear, but I also think that Australia have got the full transmission box to go through, my biggest fear is that they really click, turn it on this week and embarras us.

[Allora]

On form with lots of undecided players in the England team and Australia to probably field their best possible team..

Australia by 12-20.

I hope I am wrong and England meet Australia in the Final, I have no idea how that would work mathematically.

I am sure with the NZ V Scotland game on first, the Aussies and England will know the situation and Math more than I do.

[GaryO]

Another worry of mine is, Do our NRL players, who just happen to be our best so-called go to players, bring anything as a surprise element to outwit/outmuscle the Aussies.

Playing in the NRL as they do, and playing club teams is not the same as when the elite of all those club teams are drawn together in one team, historically (since the 70's) when we have beaten them it has useually been the first game of a series, they are quick learners and master tacticians, but it seems to me that they are already well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of our profile players, time for the SL players to step up to the mark.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Some thoughts from me...

- if NZ fail to beat by Scotland by more than 30 points, we just need to win. For every point above 30 but less than 42 then we need to beat that to qualify. Win by 12 we finish above the Aussies. I think the Scots - a really good side - will give the Kiwis enough to worry about so that we will just need to win;

- what concerns me is the ethos of this Aussie side. I love it that Meninga wants the Kangaroos to matter more than SoO - one side product to that is making sure they put on a wonderful show at their World Cup. With that as their focus I would not be surprised if they went flat out and put on a show next week. They have always had incredibly talented players to choose from - add focus and desire and they will be formidable. That said, if the kiwis fall short of 30 points that increases their cushion over them, so they may play within themselves and reserve a show for the final. I fear for whoever they play at Anfield;

- players like Clark and Williams have to be prominent if we are to stand a chance. An element of the unknown and off the cuff has always been our best hope. They are both good enough to stand up in this company; and

- I can't wait. Great to have them down here again.

[JohnM]

If Australia play like they did in the first half on Saturday and we play like we did in the first half against Scotland, then we have no chance. ..unless we play like we did in the second half against Scotland.

Still need to step up our kicking game, speed up PTB and passing, especially stop casually tossing the ball from acting half back to first receiver, play wingers on the wing, centres in the centre, 2nd rowers as inside centres, hold stucture across the pitch, stay onside, get back the ten metres quickly, etc...in other words, play more like Australia.

England CAN do it, and may well do so.

[Konkrete]

I'm expecting a pretty comprehensive dismantling to be honest.  The ridiculous appointment of Bennett was the death knell for our chance in this series.  The England team need a motivator not the Grim Reaper.

[Dave T]

Last five games v Australia:

 

5. 2009 - 4N Final - Lost 46 v 16 @ Leeds

4. 2010 - 4N Game - Lost 34 v 14 @ Melbourne

3. 2011 - 4N Game - Lost 20 v 36 @ Wembley

2. 2013 - WC - Lost 20 v 28 @ Cardiff

1. 2014 - WC - Lost 12 v 16 @ Melbourne

 

So we lost by 30, 20, 16, 8, 4 - we have been getting closer, and lost by a finger tip last time!!!

 

We will know after Friday what we need to do, but worst case we need to win by 12. 

 

We are not that far behind them, we just need the game of our lives, big players to step up.

 

I do believe we can beat them though.

[St Reatham]

Last five games v Australia:

5. 2009 - 4N Final - Lost 46 v 16 @ Leeds

4. 2010 - 4N Game - Lost 34 v 14 @ Melbourne

3. 2011 - 4N Game - Lost 20 v 36 @ Wembley

2. 2013 - WC - Lost 20 v 28 @ Cardiff

1. 2014 - WC - Lost 12 v 16 @ Melbourne

So we lost by 30, 20, 16, 8, 4 - we have been getting closer, and lost by a finger tip last time!!!

We will know after Friday what we need to do, but worst case we need to win by 12.

We are not that far behind them, we just need the game of our lives, big players to step up.

I do believe we can beat them though.

Agreed. England can do it.

[Yorkie44]

I'm going into this with unwavering optimism, if England's supporters don't believe we can win, how can the players?

The 17 I'd like to see:

1. Lomax

2. McGillvary

3. Watkins

4. Percival

5. Hall

6. Widdop

7. Williams

8. Graham

9. Hodgson

10. Taylor

11. Whitehead

12. Bateman / Farrel

13. S. Burgess

14. Clarke

15. T Burgess / G Burgess

16. Hill

17. Cooper

24-10 win.

[Chanter]

If Australia play like they did in the first half on Saturday and we play like we did in the first half against Scotland, then we have no chance. ..unless we play like we did in the second half against Scotland.

Still need to step up our kicking game, speed up PTB and passing, especially stop casually tossing the ball from acting half back to first receiver, play wingers on the wing, centres in the centre, 2nd rowers as inside centres, hold structure across the pitch, stay onside, get back the ten metres quickly, etc...in other words, play more like Australia.

England CAN do it, and may well do so.

Pretty much my thoughts, but also, our defence has to be tight and strong too

[GeordieSaint]

Who is the ref on Sunday?

[MatthewWoody]

Last five games v Australia:

 

5. 2009 - 4N Final - Lost 46 v 16 @ Leeds

4. 2010 - 4N Game - Lost 34 v 14 @ Melbourne

3. 2011 - 4N Game - Lost 20 v 36 @ Wembley

2. 2013 - WC - Lost 20 v 28 @ Cardiff

1. 2014 - WC - Lost 12 v 16 @ Melbourne

 

 

That still hurst. 

Even more than ENG v NZ at Wembley in '13. 

[BenGilesRL]

Any ideas on ticket sales? Surely with it being a semi-final people have got to get in in their numbers

[tuutaisrambo]

I think NZ will hammer Scotland meaning we need to beat OZ by 12.

 

And knowing our luck we'll play amazing and beat them by 11.

 

However everyone will be so upset with Bennett's post match interview that they won't take the result too badly.

[Liverpool Rover]

I think we can do it. Our pack has the measure of theirs and although their outside backs are obviously much better than ours, our backs aren't so inferior that they can't finish off chances given to them. England by 12 I hope.

[Liverpool Rover]

Double post

[nec]

I'm expecting a pretty comprehensive dismantling to be honest.  The ridiculous appointment of Bennett was the death knell for our chance in this series.  The England team need a motivator not the Grim Reaper.

Exactly which one of our mediocre British coaches would have given us a better chance in the 4 nations? Bennett might be getting on but he is the one world class employee within the RFL

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Last five games v Australia:

5. 2009 - 4N Final - Lost 46 v 16 @ Leeds

4. 2010 - 4N Game - Lost 34 v 14 @ Melbourne

3. 2011 - 4N Game - Lost 20 v 36 @ Wembley

2. 2013 - WC - Lost 20 v 28 @ Cardiff

1. 2014 - WC - Lost 12 v 16 @ Melbourne

So we lost by 30, 20, 16, 8, 4 - we have been getting closer, and lost by a finger tip last time!!!

We will know after Friday what we need to do, but worst case we need to win by 12.

We are not that far behind them, we just need the game of our lives, big players to step up.

I do believe we can beat them though.

Forgot the 4N Final in 2011.

England 8 - 30 Australia

[Dave T]

Forgot the 4N Final in 2011.

England 8 - 30 Australia

well that messed up my stats.

[Allora]

Who is the ref on Sunday?

 

Robert Hicks according to one website.

[Number 16]

Okay, England were no great shakes against Scotland, but all this doom and gloom is doing my nut in. We are still in with a real chance of reaching the final.

 

FIRST - it'll be interesting to see how the Scots go against the Kiwis. A thrown together squad struggled first up against the Aussies, but a week later improved against England. With quality of the likes of Douglas, Brough, Coote, Linnet, Aitken, Russell, Tierney and Brierley, and another week together, who knows. NZ will win, but Scotland won't roll over.

 

SECOND - FFS, the Kiwis only won by a solitary DG against us. We weren't hammered. Johnson's kicking game was as good as it gets and they were fortunate with a couple of their tries. We didn't play well, But it was only ONE point. 

 

THIRD - had Johnson found an extra few inches gap after the hooter then we'd be talking about a Kiwi win over the Kangaroos. The team that beat us by a single point the week before almost cracked it again. Had Johnson touched down, and then kicked a kickable conversion, how much higher would the optimism be?

 

FOURTH - all this one-eyed they were good for the first twenty/last twenty/middle twenty/second twenty/every year since 1978 is B.O.R.I.N.G. and people attempting to hack a game into the pieces that suit their arguments. How about instead, that's how games tend to go between pretty much EQUALLY MATCHED TEAMS. 

 

FIFTH - Bennett is still one of the best coaches in the world. And he does have a talented, yet still, under-performing squad.

 

SIXTH - Lady Luck is about to join the Wall of White.

[Abicus]

Do we know who the ref is yet?