iangidds Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Having just about got over the depression of Englands performances I have finally come up with a positive! Australia have upped their collective levels under big Mal and are once again head and shoulders above the rest, this in my opinion should mean we cannot any longer get near them with 5 drives and a kick! I am hoping that we will again need to see the likes of Tony Myler and Andy Gregory in the halves as well as the vision of Lee Jackson at dummy half; we cant rely on brute strength and ignorance any more. It is with great sadness that after all the years of RU fans saying RL is just run tackle repeat I actually thought the same through this tournament. Bennett did not seem to have a plan other than drive and kick and is certainly not a style of rugby I could watch anymore. Hope this comes true!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Boy Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 ugh! I thought this was going to be a dirty movie review! Money can't buy you happiness! It can buy you beer and that's a bit like happiness in a glass! "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." Sir Winston Churchill Some folks are wise and some are otherwise! Tobias Smollett "I distrust camels, and anyone else who can go a week without a drink." Joe E Lewis "Look at the ffing state of that"! My mate on the Avenue last Friday whilst pointing to a scantily clad young lady and spitting a mouthful of beer out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 If that is a positive post can you warn me before a negative one lands. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iangidds Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 I think this refle ts alot of peoples thinking that we cannot play an Aussie style and expect to compete , its looking like the pivot positions are essential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Rover Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 The big difference between us and Australia for me is that their players in the key positions are so much better than ours. They know what they are going to do and stick to it no matter how much pressure the opposition puts on them. They always make the right decision and very very rarely make errors. You never see NRL players drop the ball in their own half at the rate that SL players do, if they did then they know that there is enough strength in depth to be dropped from the first team where over here it can seem like that it is harder to be dropped than it is to make the first team. In the NRL you have to be at 100% throughout every game which then translates to Origin and the Kangaroos but over here the wider gap in standard between the top and bottom teams mean that the top clubs don't have to be at their best to win a lot of their games. More work needs to be done to bring through young talent so that established players know that their place in their teams are under constant threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobbygobbler Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 We need to stop letting their/our refs be involved and let a Frenchman do it who has no ambitions to ref in the NRL or kowtow to them. If is not in the NRLs interest for England to beat Australia in a comp as it would devalue their comp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I have watched all the black and white footage of the past - huge aussies piling down the field look for a fight and finding one - like a green and gold machine - go back and look at some of the match reports on line from back then - same game plan physically dominate the opposition then simple plays up the field What beat them back then was gnarly ba£$^"rd half backs with attitude who scared their own props never mind the opposition with skills to match and a forward pack that didn't take a backward step and ball players to boot Soooo..... where are our half backs - that's what is missing not the pack, i'll never forgive Longy for leaving GB in Aus to lose, he was the only difference - but he was the last in a long line and I cant see anyone else other than Broughy and that never took off Different class down the spine - we have the hookers, the 1, 6,7,13 just aren't up to it - playing the game plan he did Bennett should have used Matty Smith = mr dependable no flair required alongside George Williams = creativity but still too quiet and without Lockers we don't have a ready made replacement as a big hard ball playing 13 - Sambo is not the player he was, hopefully he will get back up to speed and prove me wrong Hate to say it as i'm not a wigan fan, but we missed that trio The real loss however is Hardaker at full back - there isn't a replacement, Lomax was competent but no match winner, Tomkins is past it. There are players in SL that could step up but without exposure to the sort of pressure football in the 4N's they will never get there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iangidds Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 This idea that to beat Australia, we must play some special brand of rugby league with offloads at will, not worrying about territory or possession or completions, is my least favourite thing to come out of this Four Nations. It does not hold up under any scrutiny at all. We have had Andy Gregory, Lee Jackson and Tony Myler already, and remind me how many international competitions they won? The nature of the game means that completions do matter, controlling the speed of the ruck does matter, the ability to build and sustain pressure matters. If there was some magic scenario where this wasn't true, do you not think it would have been evidenced by teams being successful without bothering with any of this? Yes they did not win much but we have a good pack and a few good backs but we need real rugby brains out there to organise and direct the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 We need to stop letting their/our refs be involved and let a Frenchman do it who has no ambitions to ref in the NRL or kowtow to them. If is not in the NRLs interest for England to beat Australia in a comp as it would devalue their comp For the referee to influence the game the teams have got to be close and in this tournament they were not. To consider a different referee would lead to a different result is massively missing the point. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Australia have the three best players on the planet in the three key positions. It does not get any more complicated than that "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 We do need to take Australia out of their comfort zone though. They are supposed to be playing in alien conditions in England, not in a final with an Australian referee and Australian video referee. They were outstanding, yes, but why do we also give them everything else on a plate? They obviously don't need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 We do need to take Australia out of their comfort zone though. They are supposed to be playing in alien conditions in England, not in a final with an Australian referee and Australian video referee. They were outstanding, yes, but why do we also give them everything else on a plate? They obviously don't need it. We should have Ant and Dec as ref and video ref. They'd put the Aussies in their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Boy Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Hardaker who in a 3 test series last year contributed 0 tries and 0 try assists? He was a big part of why our attack was useless last year, as shown by the fact not a single back scored a try across the 3 games. In the games against NZ and Aus this year Lomax at least contributed 1 try assist (and another vs Scotland who were decent enough to match the Kiwis). Don't mention the Lomax errors though! He was out of his depth just as much as Hardaker was. Money can't buy you happiness! It can buy you beer and that's a bit like happiness in a glass! "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." Sir Winston Churchill Some folks are wise and some are otherwise! Tobias Smollett "I distrust camels, and anyone else who can go a week without a drink." Joe E Lewis "Look at the ffing state of that"! My mate on the Avenue last Friday whilst pointing to a scantily clad young lady and spitting a mouthful of beer out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryO Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Saint 1 at post #12 hits the nail fairly and squarely on the head, we have got far to much expectation in our teams, we are simply individually and collectively not of the same caliber as they are, we have some good un's but they have some exceptional one's and even their lesser player's are a match or better than our best, all across the park. Add to that, their far superior game management and even the basic skills they perform with relatively error free monotony, it is no wonder we lose so regularly. Fans can take solace and say it is the refs or the video adjudicator faults, but as someone as quite rightly pointed out we have to be a much closer match to them for the officials to come into contention. It's all a numbers game, in Australia they have far more of everything than we do here, from kids, schools, junior clubs, leagues, administrators, development, coaches for every part of the game etc, etc, and all this adds up to competition to be the best, and when the players reach international standard they are the best of the best. There will always be exceptions to any rules, we can beat them occasionally, or produce a world class performer, but as long as the imbalance in numbers participating is evident we will never catch up. "If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamfordsbeans Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The lack of development of our game in the past is coming back to haunt us. The truth is our game at best is standing still,whilst the Aussies improve year on year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmduck Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 It's all a numbers game, in Australia they have far more of everything than we do here, from kids, schools, junior clubs, leagues, administrators, development, coaches for every part of the game etc, etc, and all this adds up to competition to be the best, and when the players reach international standard they are the best of the best. This is the simplest fact of all. The reason we have JT, Smith and Cronk is because of the 500,000 players below them. The second-most obvious fact is the NRL - since 2000, 12 teams have won the GF and 2 others have reached the GF twice. Imagine how different SL would be if it was that competitive. Another aspect is the "intermediate" level. Origin and the PM's XIII trips to PNG every year. These contribute to team-building and allow selectors to see a wider range of players at a tougher level. OZ players also have the advantage of playing against the Kiwi and some of the Brit players regularly. When Aaron Woods lines up against the Burgers he knows he's already beaten them twice this year so he's not worried about them wearing new shirts. He also knows that only reason Tohu Harris, Bromwich and Proctor beat him this year was because they had Cronk and Smith and then only by 10pts total for the 2 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamM Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Aussies are a joy to watch. Understand some people don't like hidings, but watching the very best at their craft show what they can do (seen in the first half especially) is something I've always loved seeing. NZ all blacks vs France in the last RUWC quarters (Dan Carters blind pass for a try), Barcelona every week under Guardiola (their two massacres of Manchester United in the 2009 & 2011 Champions League finals where Xavi and Iniesta played keep ball), Joe Calzaghe against Jeff Lacey in 2006 (beat him to a pulp for 12 rounds), Federer vs Hewitt in the US Open final (a two time slam winner being made to look like he'd won a competition to be there)...something special about seeing a quality opponent being thoroughly outclassed by a vastly superior one. Felt abit for Shaun Johnson as he was having to conjur up something without much support. The Aussies at full tilt and full respect for the jersey (something they lacked according to a few players before Meninga arrived) are on another level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konkrete Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The lack of development of our game in the past is coming back to haunt us. The truth is our game at best is standing still, whilst the Aussies improve year on year. Agree totally. And not just development in the past but also now. Nothing will change until clubs are forced to develop their own youth and the whole amateur game is supported and grown. And we've being going backwards in those fronts for a while now. We may get some success outside of this though if enough players are playing in the NRL. If say by 2025 there were 30-50 UK players playing in the NRL then that may bring international success, although it would do it at the expense of the domestic situation of course. In the end it comes down to not enough money in the game limiting spending choices. Forever in our shadow, forever on your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIANTSTRIDES Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 They are quite simply better in every position on the field. They are a lot better paid and therefor know they have to keep the standard up or be replaced from a seemingly endless pool of young talent. The underlying problem with our game is, It is operating on peanuts, and unfortunately i feel that is set to continue for the foreseeable future. I don't have any answers or even suggestions " other than SL breaking away from RFL which may help a little short term " It's just a recognition of facts that are staring us in the face. The worst thing is that without a good international game League has little chance of improving it's self, The Aussies i feel just treat it as a stroll in the park, They can survive quite well without it and they are not responsible for the shambolic state our game is in. Dont expect anything from a pig but a grunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 They are quite simply better in every position on the field. They are a lot better paid and therefor know they have to keep the standard up or be replaced from a seemingly endless pool of young talent. The underlying problem with our game is, It is operating on peanuts, and unfortunately i feel that is set to continue for the foreseeable future. I don't have any answers or even suggestions " other than SL breaking away from RFL which may help a little short term " It's just a recognition of facts that are staring us in the face. The worst thing is that without a good international game League has little chance of improving it's self, The Aussies i feel just treat it as a stroll in the park, They can survive quite well without it and they are not responsible for the shambolic state our game is in. I agree. Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewWoody Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Agree with Farmduck when he mentions PNG and the PMXIII game. It's a shame England don't do anything like that vs the likes of Wales/France. Toronto Wolfpack Global Ambassador Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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