Segeyaro staying at Leeds says GH.

[TheSnowmonkey]

   The relevance of the club owner and players at the club being unhappy.

 

 

   Hardaker also wanted to leave,more recently.

 

   I don't follow the comings and goings  - but as the saying goes...'To lose one may be regarded as a misfortune;to lose both looks like carelessness.'

 

 

Hardaker suffered a personal tragedy , I was surprised there was no support for him but as he admits because of this he went into a downward spiral....sad he left as I liked him...but players come n go..the club will still be there. 

[DoubleD]

I will start with the U16s....last season 2016 there for some reason was not as many matches and admit was not that impressive array of results but 2014 n 2015 U18s went unbeaten ( except for an international match) with Rob Burrow n Carl Ablett as coaches ..I believe JJB had similar success before them. One player in particular stood out for me was Judah Massive who had Burrow's imprint all over him..scored every match he played in at FB ..However we did not retain him ..went onto played for Wakefield U19s ..represented England youth at FB ..though at club I believe Wakefield have turned him into a winger...shame outstanding FB.

U19s as with senior squad they were hit by a large number of injuries last season but still managed to get to the U19s Grand Final.....though as has been the case with successive seasons not had strongest squad available as they were called up to senior squad. ..

There was a lot of talent in U19s some though have gone to pastures new ..... Joe Sanderson an impressive stand off 13 tries, 100 goals in 19 appearances...felt was a great shame Mac did not call him up for cover to link up again with Lilley ..has been snapped up by Hunslet Hawks along with Jack Norfolk who was also a regular on the team sheet , also frequently on the score sheet. I was surprised when we signed Cory Aston as we had a more than capable half back in Jack Wray but having had success in Rhinos academy he will now be plying his trade with Hull FC, ...they in my view got a quality signing n I don't believe they will think different.

You state that Ashton Golding was found wanting....really ? Never read so much drivel.... End of season match against NZ , along with Robbie Ward was one of stand out players...during first part of season yes he dropped one high ball but ...some fan on Rhinos FB page wrote it as a constant thing which was untrue...he worked on it ..did not drop a high ball again. He then got injured was out for a long spell ...on his return handled himself well..I have faith in the lad. Lilley has the same work ethic as both JP n Sir Kev...but people expect too much from him...his season was not helped by the constant change on who was doing the kicking...he like Golding will put in hard graft to work on their skills . Cameron Smith only got 2 calls to senior squad...1st match only played 15mins ..but was close to scoring...geez that would have been a travesty.

I welcome Moz as head coach of academy I hope he will also have the balls to tell both GH n Mac to stop selling the talent we have ..in the past Thomas Minns who for the record in the academy scored more tries than Jimmy Keinhorst...did also score on his debut senior appearance but Mac offloaded him on loan...ditto James Duckworth.

There is still some strong talent in the academy , mind I would prefer GH to have a reserve squad rather than DR but that another topic.

Returning to main topic...if Segaryo issue not resolved then hooker will be either Burrow or Sam Hallas until a replacement is bought though Mac might revert to playing Lilley there. Hallas did ok there but in academy he was not the best hooker that was Harvey Whitely but after his injury he never recaptured that spot shame as a lot of talent. Agree with Robbie Ward , always felt Leeds wrong not to offer him a contract ,Burrow who coached him first felt he was a talented player but to rehire him would be admitting you made an error...couldn't see that happening. I hope GH will put even more energy into developing our youth system.

A lot of those players you mention like Minns, Norfolk, Ward etc are just not good enough. Academy is a different beast to SL and certainly a reserves comp would have helped with the transition but realistically a lot would not have made it anyway

[TheSnowmonkey]

A lot of those players you mention like Minns, Norfolk, Ward etc are just not good enough. Academy is a different beast to SL and certainly a reserves comp would have helped with the transition but realistically a lot would not have made it anyway

 

 

Sorry disagree with you on  Minns , he only played twice in seniors but scored on his debut ,think in the next match he did as well but then went out on loan...he was top try scorer in the academy same time Jimmy Keinhorst was there...( don't get me wrong I a fan of Keinhorst )  just Minns did not get opportunity again as there was no one needing cover.  So had he had more opportunities he might have faired better..incidentally he played pretty well for Hull KR scoring a few tries for them.   GH will never buy into the reserve team competition..which I think is a mistake...he acknowledges Leeds need a bigger squad..which ok he has done for next season but they still out on DR which means training under different system..they are not learning the skills taught by the parent squad..when or if they come back it is hard to change styles n adapt as Keinhorst stated...it also effects moral....that though sadly is not a reality but unless they given a fair crack I would argue it hard to say...Wray  as said got taken up by Hull FC  ..they obviously think he up to it...Massive long time ago by  Wakefield....mind he lost something since been under Burrow's eye . though would still welcome him back if opportunity arose. 

[OMEGA]

I will start with the U16s....last season 2016 there for some reason was not as many matches and admit was not that  impressive array of results but  2014 n 2015  U18s went unbeaten ( except for an international match) with Rob Burrow n Carl Ablett as coaches  ..I believe JJB had similar success before them.  One player in particular stood out for me was Judah Massive who had Burrow's imprint all over him..scored every match he played in at FB ..However we did not retain him ..went onto played for Wakefield U19s ..represented England youth at FB  ..though at club I believe Wakefield have turned him into a winger...shame outstanding FB. 

 

U19s as with senior squad they were hit by a large number of injuries last season but still managed to get to the U19s  Grand Final.....though as has been the case with successive seasons not had strongest squad available as they were called up to senior squad. ..

 

There was a lot of talent in U19s  some though have gone to pastures new .....  Joe Sanderson  an impressive stand off  13 tries, 100 goals  in 19 appearances...felt was a great shame Mac did not call him up for cover to link up again with Lilley ..has been snapped up by Hunslet Hawks along with Jack Norfolk who was also a regular on the team sheet , also frequently on the score sheet.  I was surprised when we signed Cory Aston as we had a more than capable half back in  Jack Wray but having had success in Rhinos academy he will now be plying his trade with Hull FC, ...they in my view got a quality signing n I don't believe they will think different.  

 

You state that Ashton Golding was found wanting....really ?  Never read so much  drivel....  End of season match against  NZ , along with Robbie Ward was one of stand out players...during first part of season yes he dropped one high ball but ...some fan on Rhinos FB page wrote it as a constant thing which was untrue...he worked on it ..did not drop a high ball again.  He then got injured was out for a long spell ...on his return handled himself well..I have faith in the lad.  Lilley has the same work ethic as both JP n Sir Kev...but people expect too much from him...his season was not helped by the constant change on who was doing the kicking...he like Golding will put in hard graft  to work on their skills .   Cameron Smith only got 2 calls to senior squad...1st match only played 15mins ..but was close to scoring...geez that would have been a travesty. 

 

I welcome  Moz as head coach of academy  I hope he will also have the balls to tell both GH n Mac to stop selling the talent we have ..in the past Thomas Minns who for the record in the academy scored more tries than Jimmy Keinhorst...did also score on his debut senior appearance but Mac offloaded him on loan...ditto  James Duckworth.  

 

There is still some strong talent in the academy , mind I would prefer GH to have a reserve squad rather than DR but that another topic.     

 

Returning to main topic...if Segaryo issue not resolved then  hooker will be either Burrow or  Sam Hallas until a replacement is bought though Mac might revert to playing Lilley there.   Hallas did ok there  but in academy he was not the best hooker that was Harvey Whitely but after his injury he never recaptured that spot shame as a lot of talent.   Agree with Robbie Ward , always felt Leeds wrong  not to offer him a contract ,Burrow who coached him first felt he was a talented player but to rehire him would be admitting you made an error...couldn't see that happening.   I hope GH will put even more energy into developing our youth system.

That's a lovely story, thanks

In reality, none of the players you've named in that rose tinted recollection have proven to be Super League quality, yet!

Ash Golding still has some time and may yet prove to be good enough but the rest IMO aren't good enough

Can Smith who's a year younger might make because he too has time.

[DoubleD]

Sorry disagree with you on Minns , he only played twice in seniors but scored on his debut ,think in the next match he did as well but then went out on loan...he was top try scorer in the academy same time Jimmy Keinhorst was there...( don't get me wrong I a fan of Keinhorst ) just Minns did not get opportunity again as there was no one needing cover. So had he had more opportunities he might have faired better..incidentally he played pretty well for Hull KR scoring a few tries for them. GH will never buy into the reserve team competition..which I think is a mistake...he acknowledges Leeds need a bigger squad..which ok he has done for next season but they still out on DR which means training under different system..they are not learning the skills taught by the parent squad..when or if they come back it is hard to change styles n adapt as Keinhorst stated...it also effects moral....that though sadly is not a reality but unless they given a fair crack I would argue it hard to say...Wray as said got taken up by Hull FC ..they obviously think he up to it...Massive long time ago by Wakefield....mind he lost something since been under Burrow's eye . though would still welcome him back if opportunity arose.

Minns is a decent Championship centre that is all, possibly a lower level SL but not good enough for the level Leeds require. If he was as good as you reckon, other SL clubs would have snapped him up

[TheSnowmonkey]

That's a lovely story, thanks

In reality, none of the players you've named in that rose tinted recollection have proven to be Super League quality, yet!

Ash Golding still has some time and may yet prove to be good enough but the rest IMO aren't good enough

Can Smith who's a year younger might make because he too has time.

 

 

I wasn't aiming to do a Max Bygraves ..or recount tales of old.  You were alluding to the fact that the academy is not producing talent.  I was merely pointing out that for successive seasons the U19s have reached the Grand Final...this season was more impressive as the U19s had as many injuries as the senior squad. No we didn't win it but key players were in the senior squad.  

 

Secondly I raised Golding as he can't be found wanting if he is injured..when he played he was both solid in defence n attack.  I am not naive enough to think he is the finished article ,far from it..but as with others it is up to them to seize their opportunities n shine..the more game time they get the better they will improve.  

 

On Ablett not the best of seasons but then he got injured ,was brought back too early ,subsequently picking up another injury...but then that happened to other players as Mac had no choice...mind a larger squad ..plus a reserve team,would have solved that.   GH has added numbers but not enough with experience or those who will challenge players for their jersey.  

 

I still expect this to be a transition period but  I believe we will see good times again for the Rhinos. 

[TheSnowmonkey]

Minns is a decent Championship centre that is all, possibly a lower level SL but not good enough for the level Leeds require. If he was as good as you reckon, other SL clubs would have snapped him up

 

 

 

As stated he was one of the best in his year ,which included Keinhorst. Maybe Keinhorst worked harder n showed more potential..he certainly in my view gets better each season.  Maybe he is only a decent Championship centre but if that is the only level your playing in it is harder to raise the bar which is why I am against DR n prefer a reserve team. You ask why he wasn't snapped up by other SL clubs..JP got in there very quick also singing Robbie Mulhurn , so who is to say he would not have been approached by another club.  

My main point was that Rhinos do have the talent within the academy it depends how it is nurtured...obviously they need game time but when not in U19s matches they will go out on duel reg learning not only a different coaches system but not to the same standard...they need to play with senior players to learn from them as well as the coaches.. so at risk of playing the same record ..another  blast for the reserve team...it worked well before also pushing senior players to fight for their jersey...that not happening at the moment.  GH at least was honest enough to say it costs too much. 

[DoubleD]

As stated he was one of the best in his year ,which included Keinhorst. Maybe Keinhorst worked harder n showed more potential..he certainly in my view gets better each season. Maybe he is only a decent Championship centre but if that is the only level your playing in it is harder to raise the bar which is why I am against DR n prefer a reserve team. You ask why he wasn't snapped up by other SL clubs..JP got in there very quick also singing Robbie Mulhurn , so who is to say he would not have been approached by another club.

My main point was that Rhinos do have the talent within the academy it depends how it is nurtured...obviously they need game time but when not in U19s matches they will go out on duel reg learning not only a different coaches system but not to the same standard...they need to play with senior players to learn from them as well as the coaches.. so at risk of playing the same record ..another blast for the reserve team...it worked well before also pushing senior players to fight for their jersey...that not happening at the moment. GH at least was honest enough to say it costs too much.

I agree about the reserves and DR and that the club discards players too soon at 19 but Minns has been around a few years and no other SL clubs have shown an interest - he's done nothing to suggest he can make it at a higher level

[TheSnowmonkey]

I agree about the reserves and DR and that the club discards players too soon at 19 but Minns has been around a few years and no other SL clubs have shown an interest - he's done nothing to suggest he can make it at a higher level

 

 

You make him sound ancient, he only 22. Granted his spells at London Broncos n Featherstone  did not bring much yield.  However last season, he scored 20 tries in 23 appearances  for Hull KR  which is against SL opposition.  .   By the way those stats for last season better than any of our own players.  It also imo  shows if you are playing at a higher level it raises your game..just as players who get international experience should in theory improve their game playing against world class opposition...though true that don't always happen. 

[The storm]

Leeds are now scraping the bottom of the barrell with Tyler Randall from Newcastle knights

What is happening at Leeds

Are they self destructing

[DoubleD]

You make him sound ancient, he only 22. Granted his spells at London Broncos n Featherstone did not bring much yield. However last season, he scored 20 tries in 23 appearances for Hull KR which is against SL opposition. . By the way those stats for last season better than any of our own players. It also imo shows if you are playing at a higher level it raises your game..just as players who get international experience should in theory improve their game playing against world class opposition...though true that don't always happen.

Just because he scores tries does not make him a good player, his defence leaves a lot to be desired

[Oxford]

Apart from the use of the word "code" in the way it is, this is a good article from Love RL

 

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_24280-recruitment-approach-needs-a-rethink.html

[Dave T]

Apart from the use of the word "code" in the way it is, this is a good article from Love RL

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_24280-recruitment-approach-needs-a-rethink.html

im not sure of the point he is making tbh. Of course clubs know the risks. Some pay off, some dont.

[Oxford]

im not sure of the point he is making tbh. Of course clubs know the risks. Some pay off, some dont.

I took it that clubs weren't being as careful as they should, were only interested in the on field player and not taking into account what they are like off the field.

 

This is not entirely surprising as the chance to get any Australian of note is seductive as well as possibly giving them an edge in the cut throat business and the chances are appearing less and less often.

[Roy Boy]

The plot thickens!

 

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_24290-leeds-slap-transfer-fee-on-segeyaro.html

 

How have they arrived at that figure?

[Tommygilf]

The plot thickens!

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_24290-leeds-slap-transfer-fee-on-segeyaro.html

How have they arrived at that figure?

I think its a message to Cronulla that they won't be able to take on Segeyaro free of charge. Leeds are determined to not end up in a Cas v Solomona situation and this will probably result in a deal comparable to Hardakers.

Interestingly the club have also offered free reprints of shirts with Segeyaro on the back so I hear.

[DoubleD]

The plot thickens!

 

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_24290-leeds-slap-transfer-fee-on-segeyaro.html

 

How have they arrived at that figure?

 

Maybe that's the salary for the remainder of his contract

[Saint Toppy]

U19s as with senior squad they were hit by a large number of injuries last season but still managed to get to the U19s  Grand Final.....though as has been the case with successive seasons not had strongest squad available as they were called up to senior squad.

 

 

What team were you watching ? Leeds U19's got nowhere near the GF in 2016. They finish 14 points behind the league leaders Saints and lost to Wigan in the SF. 

 

Leeds haven't had a strong set of juniors for a few years now and Hetherington's decision to not have a Reserves and be able to develop the youngsters together and prepare them for the 1st team wont help them.

[Mattrhino]

Suerly it's two years salary.

The player should buy out his contract if wants out. I'm sure he would expect the club to pay the remainder of his contract if they were to let him go early.

[Mattrhino]

You make him sound ancient, he only 22. Granted his spells at London Broncos n Featherstone did not bring much yield. However last season, he scored 20 tries in 23 appearances for Hull KR which is against SL opposition. . By the way those stats for last season better than any of our own players. It also imo shows if you are playing at a higher level it raises your game..just as players who get international experience should in theory improve their game playing against world class opposition...though true that don't always happen.

NFL clubs don't even consider players until they reach 23-24.

[TheSnowmonkey]

What team were you watching ? Leeds U19's got nowhere near the GF in 2016. They finish 14 points behind the league leaders Saints and lost to Wigan in the SF. 

 

Leeds haven't had a strong set of juniors for a few years now and Hetherington's decision to not have a Reserves and be able to develop the youngsters together and prepare them for the 1st team wont help them.

 

 

Apologies it was the semi final play off they got to this season ...but  I still maintain that considering the injuries they had this season that ain't bad.  Yes I agree with on reserve ,I have written to GH countless times on this that I believe he is making an error especially considering more SL teams seam to be going down the reserve structure. I was gutted to see that DR was continuing this season, I was hoping the RFL would intervene making it compulsory. 

[Saint Toppy]

Apologies it was the semi final play off they got to this season ...but  I still maintain that considering the injuries they had this season that ain't bad.  Yes I agree with on reserve ,I have written to GH countless times on this that I believe he is making an error especially considering more SL teams seam to be going down the reserve structure. I was gutted to see that DR was continuing this season, I was hoping the RFL would intervene making it compulsory. 

Even Leigh have now decided to provide a full player pathway to the 1st team (U14's, 15's, 16's 19's & Reserves) so pretty soon Leeds are going to find themselves even further behind.

[East of the Moon]

Even Leigh have now decided to provide a full player pathway to the 1st team (U14's, 15's, 16's 19's & Reserves) so pretty soon Leeds are going to find themselves even further behind.

Thanks for that....I hadn't realised Leeds had fallen behind....when did that happen?

[TheSnowmonkey]

Even Leigh have now decided to provide a full player pathway to the 1st team (U14's, 15's, 16's 19's & Reserves) so pretty soon Leeds are going to find themselves even further behind.

 

 

Im not sure who is coaching our  U16s now it a shame that Rob Burrow n Carl Ablett did not continue as they were successful. The 2015 season in particular was a success, not only was it a busy fixture list but they only lost one match,against a French international season. Last season for some reason there were hardly any fixtures , I only read of 3 so don't know what happened to the rest. That though is not GH's fault.  I am not concerned either by the U19s ..as our players are still getting picked in England youth..so the quality is there...my concern is if the other clubs all opt to go for a reserve comp then Rhinos will be frozen out..or will use DR as the only means to give the academy players game.  As mentioned elsewhere playing at Championship level is all very well but does not give them experience of playing top flight. The only time that happens n only for a few is if a senior player is injured. BTW I want a reserve structure that will include senior players coming back from injury or those that are not playing to the best of their ability..sending a senior player on DR does not exactly boost their confidence it also takes them away from the spirit of the club...nor more importantly have them playing to the same coaching methods of  the club. I believe your player Lomax on his return from injury was in a reserve squad as was a Wire player..both benefited from it.  At every given opportunity I have mentioned this to GH but he will not budge.  At least he was honest I suppose n admitted it was a cost factor.. I admit DR worked in the past but every other club has moved on.  Mind he changed his view on P n R  or at least conveniently changed it so there is a slim hope.

 

 

Returning to topic I note that all 9 NRL clubs have all declined to offer Segeyaro a contract as  they view price tag too high n will also effect their salary caps..  I note Cronulla said they would never tap up a player under contract....least not at that fee  Meanwhile GH has stated that he doesn't want Segeyaro to return either....without a NRL to back him ,doubt he will have the money to pay Leeds back...ouch.   

 

So will Leeds use Burrow  more, before they got   Beau Falloon n then Segeyaro...GH said the team would be built round  Burrow...they say they have an alternative though maybe it is back to using Burrow n Lilley or  Sam Hallas....I hope it sorted as without a recognised no 9  we are definitely weaker.  

[DoubleD]

Money is not the reason Leeds don't run a reserves, that is a red herring. Leeds makes in excess of £1 million profit per annum so don't be fooled by that. GH believes DR is a better way of developing youngsters. You can still have DR/loans along with U21s/U23s though and I think they're missing a trick