Eric Perez: Montreal team in League One by 2019

[Oxford]

11 hours ago, BenGilesRL said:

Navigate to 2hrs 56 for Eric Perez on BBC Breakfast.

Sounds a bit tired and doesn't cover any new ground (to someone who knows a lot already) - but this would have been at around 8.55am GMT so a good slot for listening public I would imagine.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088hwcf

There aren't enough Erics.

[BenGilesRL]

14 hours ago, Oxford said:

There aren't enough Erics.

Well you say that but there are plenty of Erics in Canada and the USA - people with big dreams and enthusiasm, maybe they just either haven't seen rl yet, or have and haven't yet made their intentions known like Jacksonville

[DemonUK]

British Rugby League 2030

Leeds, Wigan, Catalans, Toulouse, Toronto, Montreal, Jacksonville, New York, Barcelona, London

All other clubs have left the RFL and now come under the auspices of BARLA.  Me, I stopped watching RL in 2025 when half of SL were not British 

[deluded pom?]

14 minutes ago, DemonUK said:

British Rugby League 2030

Leeds, Wigan, Catalans, Toulouse, Toronto, Montreal, Jacksonville, New York, Barcelona, London

All other clubs have left the RFL and now come under the auspices of BARLA.  Me, I stopped watching RL in 2025 when half of SL were not British 

Why didn't you watch the BARLA leagues?

[Oxford]

5 hours ago, BenGilesRL said:

Well you say that but there are plenty of Erics in Canada and the USA - people with big dreams and enthusiasm, maybe they just either haven't seen rl yet, or have and haven't yet made their intentions known like Jacksonville

I think that tautological Ben.

There may be plenty but if they aren't in RL??????

[Rob]

On 1/21/2017 at 1:36 AM, Lounge Room Lizard said:

The difference between Perez and others is Perez has gone out there and done this on his own and proved himself more than once. Is he brash and Cocky? Yes and likely some wont like it. 

When you hear him speak he does not come across as brash or cocky (to me!).

Just very confident and someone who inspires confidence when you listen to him.

[BenGilesRL]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

I think that tautological Ben.

There may be plenty but if they aren't in RL??????

That's why it's as yet untapped potential - but with one success more will follow

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, BenGilesRL said:

That's why it's as yet untapped potential - but with one success more will follow

Yes once they've shown it can work well...........

I think this is not sitting well with the general expectation of failure and let down that seems to follow RL like a bad smell.

 

[BenGilesRL]

16 hours ago, Oxford said:

Yes once they've shown it can work well...........

I think this is not sitting well with the general expectation of failure and let down that seems to follow RL like a bad smell.

 

I've been considering what is happening of late, and I believe it is as follows:

A couple of years ago a study was taken into the demographic for rugby league supporters both in person and on television.

From memory it concluded that the majority of supporters were between the ages of 40 and 50.

The television audiences were quite different to what they hadn't expected - with a high proportion in the south east and London (hence the international fixtures over there)

Based on these findings - should we look at it in a market and business sense - the age range of supporters (if indeed it was as I remember) would suggest their main income would reduce over the next few years due to the habits of those as they get older generally becoming less active and more inclined to stay home.

Clearly the gap in younger people needs to be bridged in order to compensate for this.

Now a lot of what young people respond to, the more advanced in years generally do not normally appreciate, normally wanting things to stay as they are.

So clearly rugby league would have to upset a few people to attract new interest from a younger fan base.

This can be used as a way to understand every diiscussion about Toronto so far, there will be exceptions - but generally speaking - if someone is being negative it might be because it's not being aimed at them - and there's a reason for that.

Meanwhile the class argument between codes is also a factor and stunts the growth of RL in this country as people are told not to show an interest - or the media blocks efforts as they are also run by those in the 40-50 bracket or possibly older with deep seated opinions.

so the USA and Canada workable for all these

 

 

[iffleyox]

2 hours ago, BenGilesRL said:

 

Meanwhile the class argument between codes is also a factor and stunts the growth of RL in this country as people are told not to show an interest

 

 

I think this is dying down a bit to be honest - my Dad (67) was certainly brought up to believe that "going north" was the worst sin in the world, but I was 15 in 1995 and have never had any pressure from friends or family not to watch League - despite being an RU playing public schoolboy. I suspect that that's increasingly the case - one of the members of my gang of touring southern ex-public schoolboys that go and watch SuperLeague matches is an Old Etonian.... We get a few funny looks when we open our mouths in backstreet Wakefield pubs (for example), but generally people take all of about 2 seconds to work out that we're genuine and not there to take the mick and end up buying us a pint.

Where I do think there's a problem is not with the upper class, or even the upper middle class (any more anyway) - they've always had the insouciance to do whatever the hell they want - but with the lower middle class. That's where I've encountered residual resistance to RL far more than anywhere else - sort of "we've made it, and we will demonstrate this fact by the adoption of and jealous guarding of Rugby Union as a talisman of our status." That's not an anti RU point, before this gets punted into the cross code netherworld, it's intended as an observation on the "class argument" which I've not seen advanced on here before.

Essentially, being an outside, you tend to notice other outsiders. The average RL fan in the stands or on the terraces of their local SL club might be surprised just who's sitting/standing 50 yards along. 

[BenGilesRL]

36 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

I think this is dying down a bit to be honest - my Dad (67) was certainly brought up to believe that "going north" was the worst sin in the world, but I was 15 in 1995 and have never had any pressure from friends or family not to watch League - despite being an RU playing public schoolboy. I suspect that that's increasingly the case - one of the members of my gang of touring southern ex-public schoolboys that go and watch SuperLeague matches is an Old Etonian.... We get a few funny looks when we open our mouths in backstreet Wakefield pubs (for example), but generally people take all of about 2 seconds to work out that we're genuine and not there to take the mick and end up buying us a pint.

Where I do think there's a problem is not with the upper class, or even the upper middle class (any more anyway) - they've always had the insouciance to do whatever the hell they want - but with the lower middle class. That's where I've encountered residual resistance to RL far more than anywhere else - sort of "we've made it, and we will demonstrate this fact by the adoption of and jealous guarding of Rugby Union as a talisman of our status." That's not an anti RU point, before this gets punted into the cross code netherworld, it's intended as an observation on the "class argument" which I've not seen advanced on here before.

Essentially, being an outside, you tend to notice other outsiders. The average RL fan in the stands or on the terraces of their local SL club might be surprised just who's sitting/standing 50 yards along.

They might be, but I have trouble talking about the game where I live, and anywhere else within 150miles NSE or W, and on the rare occasion I will try, I tend to be met with quips such as, why do you watch that are you from up there?, You wanna watch union thats a proper game, League's the gay one isn't it? (which is obviously offensive on two levels), That's played by Oiks up north int it? That's like NFL isn't it? etc etc

When asked about the other code, they don't actually follow it, it's just their automatic response.

I appreciate things are changing, but why bother to try to market to and convince these people to buy a ticket, or watch it, when we can go the other route.

Create Toronto and more and more clubs like them, and then suddenly the people who go to the super bowl (or are influenced by american culture and choose this instead) will find it the other way round. We need it to become fashionable, and whilst we are getting more of an uptake in certain areas, a cultural change can be driven by north america.

[iffleyox]

don't disagree with a lot of that, I just think we need to be careful what we wish for (which is not remotely the same thing as wanting Toronto to fail or hoping that it'll go away). It might bring success and money, but will it necessarily be RL still (this is where the wag will say "no, because it will have success and money")? Seems to me that a *potential* pitfall of going down this route is that after 20-odd years of adopting half baked American glitz it just goes the whole hog and becomes an American sport which gets exported back to the UK. 

Not saying that will definitely happen, but it's an option - personally I do think it should be the springboard to Toronto eventually being off-shored back into a professional north American league, not turning SL into a northern hemisphere competition. 

[BenGilesRL]

3 hours ago, iffleyox said:

don't disagree with a lot of that, I just think we need to be careful what we wish for (which is not remotely the same thing as wanting Toronto to fail or hoping that it'll go away). It might bring success and money, but will it necessarily be RL still (this is where the wag will say "no, because it will have success and money")? Seems to me that a *potential* pitfall of going down this route is that after 20-odd years of adopting half baked American glitz it just goes the whole hog and becomes an American sport which gets exported back to the UK. 

Not saying that will definitely happen, but it's an option - personally I do think it should be the springboard to Toronto eventually being off-shored back into a professional north American league, not turning SL into a northern hemisphere competition. 

I think the answer is the middle ground - conferences and then meet each other as participants whittle down.

any success these American clubs will have can only raise the profile of our clubs playing them. For example every team in league 1 this season will get at least two games live on tv, and the league have already had more exposure pre season than at any other time in its history.

[Oxford]

21 hours ago, BenGilesRL said:

I think the answer is the middle ground - conferences and then meet each other as participants whittle down.

any success these American clubs will have can only raise the profile of our clubs playing them. For example every team in league 1 this season will get at least two games live on tv, and the league have already had more exposure pre season than at any other time in its history.

And yet there'll still be people saying Toronto have delivered nothing yet!

 

[nonbelievers]

Quote

"The man behind the first professional trans-Atlantic sports club"

This puzzles and worries me in equal measure.

The Wolfpack aren't the first, but more worrying is the apparent lack of response from the sport who have the first trans Atlantic sports club.....unless Argentina to South Africa isn't tran- Atlantic that is?

 

[Pulga]

1 hour ago, nonbelievers said:

This puzzles and worries me in equal measure.

The Wolfpack aren't the first, but more worrying is the apparent lack of response from the sport who have the first trans Atlantic sports club.....unless Argentina to South Africa isn't tran- Atlantic that is?

Super Rugby isn't really based anywhere though. Even though Argentina were in the South African group.

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

7 hours ago, nonbelievers said:

This puzzles and worries me in equal measure.

The Wolfpack aren't the first, but more worrying is the apparent lack of response from the sport who have the first trans Atlantic sports club.....unless Argentina to South Africa isn't tran- Atlantic that is?

 

I mentioned this the first time I heard "World's first trans-Atlantic professional sports club."

All I could think to myself was "no they're not!"

[BenGilesRL]

5 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I mentioned this the first time I heard "World's first trans-Atlantic professional sports club."

All I could think to myself was "no they're not!"

I don't know about this other venture you speak of, but it doesn't matter - based on the days of the British empire, and now the power of the USA - if either of these facets are not involved then they will have the gumption to say they are the first. Luckily for RL.

[MustardBoy]

Eric Perez is in this for himself and co-investors, not for the love of your sport in itself, he's a businessman. Of course he wants the sport to grow, but I doubt his intentions are the same as your dreams.

Do you think to Perez, the future of RL includes Wigan, St Helens, Leeds & Hull. SL is just being used a template and stepping stone for a North American dominated league.

One thing's for sure, history shows that folk from North America couldn't give a hoot about Britain, British interests or British history. We're here to be used and abused.

If Toronto, Montreal and all these other clubs do come off, it might grow RL, but you won't be invited to the party unless you're needed. It'll be a North American league, run on North American terms and you'll just have to suck it up.

Good for Toronto, but this needs to be aimed at the progression of an additional, separate, NA League, not the potential takeover and domination of the SL.

[Sco77]

23 minutes ago, MustardBoy said:

Eric Perez is in this for himself and co-investors, not for the love of your sport in itself, he's a businessman. Of course he wants the sport to grow, but I doubt his intentions are the same as your dreams.

Do you think to Perez, the future of RL includes Wigan, St Helens, Leeds & Hull. SL is just being used a template and stepping stone for a North American dominated league.

One thing's for sure, history shows that folk from North America couldn't give a hoot about Britain, British interests or British history. We're here to be used and abused.

If Toronto, Montreal and all these other clubs do come off, it might grow RL, but you won't be invited to the party unless you're needed. It'll be a North American league, run on North American terms and you'll just have to suck it up.

Good for Toronto, but this needs to be aimed at the progression of an additional, separate, NA League, not the potential takeover and domination of the SL.

I'm sometimes staggered by what I hear... Genuinely. 

And we wonder why the game hasn't grown in the way it should! 

Are you on the board at Red Hall by any chance?

[Bob8]

43 minutes ago, MustardBoy said:

Eric Perez is in this for himself and co-investors, not for the love of your sport in itself, he's a businessman. Of course he wants the sport to grow, but I doubt his intentions are the same as your dreams.

Do you think to Perez, the future of RL includes Wigan, St Helens, Leeds & Hull. SL is just being used a template and stepping stone for a North American dominated league.

One thing's for sure, history shows that folk from North America couldn't give a hoot about Britain, British interests or British history. We're here to be used and abused.

If Toronto, Montreal and all these other clubs do come off, it might grow RL, but you won't be invited to the party unless you're needed. It'll be a North American league, run on North American terms and you'll just have to suck it up.

Good for Toronto, but this needs to be aimed at the progression of an additional, separate, NA League, not the potential takeover and domination of the SL.

I was once involved in international development and shared a messageboard with an Australian poster (once of this parish) who explained that whereas Australians did international development out of altruism, British people did it out of narrow self interest.  It had been a few years since I had come across a message as stupid (AOB board excluded), so well done.

If you think that Eric Perez is not a rugby league nut, you have either not met the guy or do not know anyone who has.  Which makes it odd you thik you have a worthwhile view on the matter.

If making it financially viable is a crime, it explains the state of rugby league finances.

And if you think your own town should come above the interests of the game as a whole, then I wonder if you are anyone to write about "the love of your sport in itself".  It is true that if soccer had not expanded since the 1880's, then Darwen FC could still be a big deal.  Are bitter Darwen fans the only true soccer fans?

[The Parksider]

1 hour ago, MustardBoy said:

Eric Perez is in this for himself and co-investors, not for the love of your sport in itself, he's a businessman. Of course he wants the sport to grow, but I doubt his intentions are the same as your dreams.

Do you think to Perez, the future of RL includes Wigan, St Helens, Leeds & Hull. SL is just being used a template and stepping stone for a North American dominated league.

One thing's for sure, history shows that folk from North America couldn't give a hoot about Britain, British interests or British history. We're here to be used and abused.

If Toronto, Montreal and all these other clubs do come off, it might grow RL, but you won't be invited to the party unless you're needed. It'll be a North American league, run on North American terms and you'll just have to suck it up.

Good for Toronto, but this needs to be aimed at the progression of an additional, separate, NA League, not the potential takeover and domination of the SL.

Well said and this is the main issue people need to face rather than thinking Toronto = Rich Club = Superleague is improved. Take that to it's limit and once we have 12 North American clubs we have no British Superleague clubs.

Salford have a rich owner prepared to bust the cap and really spend and to prevent that happening and the Superleague imploding he's salary capped. So Toronto can be as rich as Trump but they can't spend it and would struggle in SL just like Salford.

Still do they care, as they stand without a ball kicked in anger their presence in the British game has a[[arently stimulated people in Montreal and Florida. that's 3 new clubs before a ball is kicked.

Imagine they won CC1 and then won the Championship, would more North americans start to think about this? At what point do they say right, we'll set up a North American league and offer ten franchises for a 10 club league, and cap the salaries at £5.000,000 a club to make it competitive and affordable,

So they not only drop the British game which they would have "used" they then offer all our top stars treble wages to go play over there..

This does need some thought.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DoubleD]

7 hours ago, Pulga said:

Super Rugby isn't really based anywhere though. Even though Argentina were in the South African group.

Super Rugby in itself is false advertising too

[Bob8]

20 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Well said and this is the main issue people need to face rather than thinking Toronto = Rich Club = Superleague is improved. Take that to it's limit and once we have 12 North American clubs we have no British Superleague clubs.

Salford have a rich owner prepared to bust the cap and really spend and to prevent that happening and the Superleague imploding he's salary capped. So Toronto can be as rich as Trump but they can't spend it and would struggle in SL just like Salford.

Still do they care, as they stand without a ball kicked in anger their presence in the British game has apparently stimulated people in Montreal and Florida. that's 3 new clubs before a ball is kicked.

Imagine they won CC1 and then won the Championship, would more North americans start to think about this? At what point do they say right, we'll set up a North American league and offer ten franchises for a 10 club league, and cap the salaries at £5.000,000 a club to make it competitive and affordable,

So they not only drop the British game which they would have "used" they then offer all our top stars treble wages to go play over there..

This does need some thought.

Frankly, the terror that rugby league will be huge internationally causing British RL to effectively die off is clearly very stupid for a few reasons:

- One part time club in Championship 1 to Super League being overwhelmed is rather a leap

- Soccer is rather international (Google it if you do not believe me).  The Premiership is still viable

- Super League has not been the top club competition globally at any point in its history.  For the first few years it was third, then second with the merger producing the NRL.  Even if point 1 comes to pass, so what?

- We already have a similar dynamic in the game, with middle sized clubs having power and wanting stasis.  This si not a new thing.

You also fail to differentiate between a vanity project and long term development.  Rich men's vanity projects rarely work, they just increase costs for the other clubs.  That is because they throw money at players, none at development and expect the crowd to come to bask in their majesty.  The traditional alternative to that is organic growth, but we both know this is nonsense.  The world has changed and we are moving towards more community clubs (Manchester Rangers) and large commercial operations, which affects not just rugby league, not just sport, but media and entertainment generally.  The model of lots of middling sized clubs will struggle, that is not because of Toronto, but because we are not in the 1980's anymore.

[JonM]

6 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

- One part time club in Championship 1 to Super League being overwhelmed is rather a leap

It is nice to see how we've gone from "this is a ridiculous idea that will never work, I give it a season at most" to "north america will dominate SL and all our clubs will die" in the space of a few months.

If Toronto do indeed go through C1 and the Championship and become a stable SL club and are able to operate at a proft due to attendances/sponsorship/tv money, I will be delighted and astonished.