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Johnoco

Civil Partnership Case

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9 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39039146

This couple have lost their case, for now anyway. How is it fair though?

Me and my partner been together over 30 years but don't agree with marriage. Why should we have less rights than a couple who have been together 5 minutes but happen to be gay? I thought we were all equal now?

Personally I agree and that heterosexual couples should be allowed in civil partnerships.

the consession to make CP's none heterosexual was a big nod to the religious elements, and I hope it is overturned soon. 

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I'm on the couple's side in this. They are taking the case further, and I hope they get a favourable decision eventually.

It is an option that I think many people would take up these days, which is why religious pressure groups would be against it.


Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. (Susan Ertz)

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A female friend is very religious and was brought up a staunch Catholic. However, she married a divorced non-Catholic man in her twenties and was refused both a marriage in her Catholic church and to attend communion there afterwards.

She has always felt bad about not being able to go to communion and has, for the last twenty years or so gone spent periods going to both RC and Protestant church services on a Sunday.

She is now herself in the final stages of a divorce. This week she was talking over her position with a senior lay member of the RC church and said how guilty she had always felt about not being allowed to go to communion. The church elder asked where she had got married. When she said it was in a Registry Office, he said that the Catholic Church does not recognise those marriages anyway. The current thinking is that she should be welcome to go to communion because she has never officially married a divorced man from outside the Faith.

We rail against the policies of third world religions but those of our traditional ones can be just as stupid.

Thank God;), I'm an atheist.

 


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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4 hours ago, Johnoco said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39039146

This couple have lost their case, for now anyway. How is it fair though?

Me and my partner been together over 30 years but don't agree with marriage. Why should we have less rights than a couple who have been together 5 minutes but happen to be gay? I thought we were all equal now?

I'm not aware of the 5-minute old gay couple, but otherwise I agree. These laws were all set up in a half-cocked way to start with.


I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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3 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I'm not aware of the 5-minute old gay couple, but otherwise I agree. These laws were all set up in a half-cocked way to start with.

A figure of speech that's all. 

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2 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

A female friend is very religious and was brought up a staunch Catholic. However, she married a divorced non-Catholic man in her twenties and was refused both a marriage in her Catholic church and to attend communion there afterwards.

She has always felt bad about not being able to go to communion and has, for the last twenty years or so gone spent periods going to both RC and Protestant church services on a Sunday.

She is now herself in the final stages of a divorce. This week she was talking over her position with a senior lay member of the RC church and said how guilty she had always felt about not being allowed to go to communion. The church elder asked where she had got married. When she said it was in a Registry Office, he said that the Catholic Church does not recognise those marriages anyway. The current thinking is that she should be welcome to go to communion because she has never officially married a divorced man from outside the Faith.

We rail against the policies of third world religions but those of our traditional ones can be just as stupid.

Thank God;), I'm an atheist.

 

Amen to that. :P

 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Cameron made a big issue of same sex marriage, when in fact there was little appetite within the LGBT community for it.

This case might well have the same effect in the heterosexual community. We should all be equal in law.

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how can he stay with a fat girl who'll say.............ohwhayahhoy...............


the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but the crows are just as black

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47 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

These laws were all set up in a half-cocked way to start with.

They were - but they probably wouldn't have got through otherwise.

It's not something I'm going to get passionate about but it does seem daft that civil partnerships aren't extended to the straight community.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

They were - but they probably wouldn't have got through otherwise.

It's not something I'm going to get passionate about but it does seem daft that civil partnerships aren't extended to the straight community.

they are -its called getting married


the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but the crows are just as black

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2 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

they are -its called getting married

No it's not 

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"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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15 hours ago, AlexHaldane said:

Cameron made a big issue of same sex marriage, when in fact there was little appetite within the LGBT community for it.

This case might well have the same effect in the heterosexual community. We should all be equal in law.

I disagree. I've heard this bandied around a few times but the people I know in that community were all very happy about it. 

 

Also so are you suggesting we only improve equality when people are 'clamouring' for it?

Edited by RidingPie

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21 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

A female friend is very religious and was brought up a staunch Catholic. However, she married a divorced non-Catholic man in her twenties and was refused both a marriage in her Catholic church and to attend communion there afterwards.

She has always felt bad about not being able to go to communion and has, for the last twenty years or so gone spent periods going to both RC and Protestant church services on a Sunday.

She is now herself in the final stages of a divorce. This week she was talking over her position with a senior lay member of the RC church and said how guilty she had always felt about not being allowed to go to communion. The church elder asked where she had got married. When she said it was in a Registry Office, he said that the Catholic Church does not recognise those marriages anyway. The current thinking is that she should be welcome to go to communion because she has never officially married a divorced man from outside the Faith.

We rail against the policies of third world religions but those of our traditional ones can be just as stupid.

Thank God;), I'm an atheist.

Jesus was very clear in his disapproval of divorce, but the reason is important.  The story of bringing Lazarus back from the dead was that he saw the funeral, was filled with compassion and brought him back.  But the compassion was not for Lazarus, who was dead and therefore fine, but for his Mother and wife who were left behind.  In those days divorce was only done by men, was immediate and no reason needed and would leave the woman destitute.  Basically, it was a terrible thing to do to a woman.  These days, it often involves setting her up financially for life.  Clearly, it should not be done trivially, but there is a danger when the Bible is read dogmatically.  

Or, you can just be an atheist, which saves the trouble ;)

 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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3 hours ago, RidingPie said:

I disagree. I've heard this bandied around a few times but the people I know in that community were all very happy about it. 

 

Also so are you suggesting we only improve equality when people are 'clamouring' for it?

I know quite a few LGBT folk and they were all perfectly happy having been afforded equal legal rights in relationships via the civil partnership.

Religion plays an infinitesimal ly small part in LGBT life, to the point of irrelevance.

It was Cameron who wanted to push the religious angle to give the Conservatives a bit of an image change.

It was a bit of window dressing.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, AlexHaldane said:

I know quite a few LGBT folk and they were all perfectly happy having been afforded equal legal rights in relationships via the civil partnership.

Religion plays an infinitesimal ly small part in LGBT life, to the point of irrelevance.

It was Cameron who wanted to push the religious angle to give the Conservatives a bit of an image change.

It was a bit of window dressing.

 

 

So, again, you suggest we should only improve equality when there is clamour to do so?

also I know several gay people for whom religion is a huge part of their life. And indeed  in one instance kept him in the closet for years. (And he was forced to change his church when he did eventually come out)

Perhaps the reason religion doesn't have a bigger part in the gay community is the wellspring of prejudice and hate towards them from religions. 

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4 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

So, again, you suggest we should only improve equality when there is clamour to do so?

also I know several gay people for whom religion is a huge part of their life. And indeed  in one instance kept him in the closet for years. (And he was forced to change his church when he did eventually come out)

Perhaps the reason religion doesn't have a bigger part in the gay community is the wellspring of prejudice and hate towards them from religions. 

I'd suggest that the decrease in influence of religion in wider society has simply been mirrored in the LGBT community.

Why would anyone want to believe in a religion that rejects them?

I remember watching Will Young in a discussion on same sex marriage.

He was of the opinion that there was no desire for change for exactly that reason. The LGBT community rejected religion in much the same way as wider society.

However, when some religious zealot countered with the fact that homosexuality was a sin within his religion, Will changed his tone and said it made him want to campaign for religions to be forced to adapt.

Just two weeks ago I had a great chat with a young man who was a Muslim until he came out.

His family rejected him for going against his faith, so he in turn rejected the faith he was indoctrinated to believe as a child. He's never felt so free.

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15 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

So, again, you suggest we should only improve equality when there is clamour to do so?

also I know several gay people for whom religion is a huge part of their life. And indeed  in one instance kept him in the closet for years. (And he was forced to change his church when he did eventually come out)

Perhaps the reason religion doesn't have a bigger part in the gay community is the wellspring of prejudice and hate towards them from religions. 

Indeed.  And religion played a big part in the lives of at least a few people I know, as they went to Mass regularly.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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8 minutes ago, AlexHaldane said:

I'd suggest that the decrease in influence of religion in wider society has simply been mirrored in the LGBT community.

Why would anyone want to believe in a religion that rejects them?

I remember watching Will Young in a discussion on same sex marriage.

He was of the opinion that there was no desire for change for exactly that reason. The LGBT community rejected religion in much the same way as wider society.

However, when some religious zealot countered with the fact that homosexuality was a sin within his religion, Will changed his tone and said it made him want to campaign for religions to be forced to adapt.

Just two weeks ago I had a great chat with a young man who was a Muslim until he came out.

His family rejected him for going against his faith, so he in turn rejected the faith he was indoctrinated to believe as a child. He's never felt so free.

So again, are you saying that we should not improve equality unless people are clamouring for it?

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18 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

So again, are you saying that we should not improve equality unless people are clamouring for it?

So are you saying I was saying that? If so, where did I say it?

Society is unequal in a myriad of ways.

Religions, by their very existence create inequality and division.

It's all relative, it's generally the relativity of change to benefit accrued that tends to dictate what inequalities are addressed. 

I think there are bigger issues to address, rather than Cameron's window dressing effort.

Some are more equal than others in law, as this judgement seems to show.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, AlexHaldane said:

So are you saying I was saying that? If so, where did I say it?

Society is unequal in a myriad of ways.

Religions, by their very existence create inequality and division.

It's all relative, it's generally the relativity of change to benefit accrued that tends to dictate what inequalities are addressed. 

I think there are bigger issues to address, rather than Cameron's window dressing effort.

Some are more equal than others in law, as this judgement seems to show.

 

 

 

You have clearly implied it in all your previous posts on this thread by saying this like "Cameron made a big issue of same sex marriage, when in fact there was little appetite within the LGBT community for it."

and

"I remember watching Will Young in a discussion on same sex marriage.

He was of the opinion that there was no desire for change for exactly that reason. The LGBT community rejected religion in much the same way as wider society."

and also by your constantly avoiding answering the question. If I have interpreted your overly length replies to simple questions incorrectly, please point out how. 

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It's an issue that'd take less than 5 minutes of Commons time to fix.  A simple regulation, secondary legislation that doesn't even need a debate, that clarifies that the law allows for heterosexual couples as well.  It really is that easy and would have saved stupid amounts of court time on what is really an admin error in drafting.

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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27 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

You have clearly implied it in all your previous posts on this thread by saying this like "Cameron made a big issue of same sex marriage, when in fact there was little appetite within the LGBT community for it."

and

"I remember watching Will Young in a discussion on same sex marriage.

He was of the opinion that there was no desire for change for exactly that reason. The LGBT community rejected religion in much the same way as wider society."

and also by your constantly avoiding answering the question. If I have interpreted your overly length replies to simple questions incorrectly, please point out how. 

There is no question for me to answer. You can interpret anything said in any way you like. I couldn't give a toss!!

Now off you stupid .

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2 minutes ago, AlexHaldane said:

There is no question for me to answer. You can interpret anything said in any way you like. I couldn't give a toss!!

Now off you stupid .

Just to put it to you again...

So again, are you saying that we should not improve equality unless people are clamouring for it?

its clearly stated as a question clearly drawn from your comments. Please answer with a yes or no. 

Also I suspect calling someone stupid is frowned upon. 

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