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Ryan Bailey signs for Toronto

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9 minutes ago, damp squib said:

It has already been said multiple times by multiple Canadians on this forum that they don't care if the players aren't local. It's just not as big a part of sporting culture in North America.

QUOTE BY BIG PICTURE, earlier in the thread.

"I quite agree.  As a Canadian I am thoroughly unimpressed that at this level they haven't yet (as far as I can tell) brought through even one Canadian recruit while a Yank who goes by the arrogant nickname "Captain America" is getting game time.  At this rate they'll never be seeing a dime of my money."

Seems that the accusations Parky constantly suffers, are not his alone.


"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

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16 minutes ago, GaryO said:

Seems that the accusations Parky constantly suffers, are not his alone.

Well I only suffered those accusations during the period when if you didn't wet yourself over Toronto, you were a flat capper. Hopefully we can get past all that and have a decent discussion about their way forward.

Wether fans care if their team does not have a single fellow countryman in it, or not isn't really the issue here. The issue was wether CC1 fans are going to be excited by an English Championship team posing as a canadian team. Then there was the issue of Lenegan's policy demanding Canadians be developed.

As for identities maybe next years Toronto.v.London can be their biggest crowd yet?

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45 minutes ago, MikeFletchersBarmyArmy said:

But do those crowds come in to see Canada internationals because it is their home country & their home countrymen?

Or because they like the sport...


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43 minutes ago, MikeFletchersBarmyArmy said:

But do those crowds come in to see Canada internationals because it is their home country & their home countrymen?

The analysis appears to say that they like the actual game itself (over Union) and will pay to watch it over Union. As it's unlikely there will be any "fellow countrymen" of the right standard to be able to play championship we'll be stuck with an English Toronto and maybe a couple of Antipodeans next year in the Championship.

Winning games appears to beat playing local players as far as crowds turning up are concerned wether it's Arsenal or Toronto. It's wether Mr. Lenegan want's to see a Toronto without any Canadians that matters. 

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1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

There appears to be a few local amateur RL teams playing for fun, I can't see the purpose of plucking players out of them and shifting full professionals to one side to put them in the team as "Token" Canadians?

Those pro's who signed to play would be quite angry, and even at third tier semi pro-level it still has to be a level well above amateurs on the local park playing for fun.

How do you know the pros would be "quite angry"? Maybe Bailey, for example, has signed in the knowledge that he won't be playing in all the games ("Just the important ones Ryan" ;)) and also be picking up some experience coaching some up and coming Canadians? 

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58 minutes ago, zorquif said:

How do you know the pros would be "quite angry"? Maybe Bailey, for example, has signed in the knowledge that he won't be playing in all the games ("Just the important ones Ryan" ;)) and also be picking up some experience coaching some up and coming Canadians? 

Yeh, the pro's would love to sit it out for some local rookie.

More to the point is how do you know mr. Rowley and his team would allow Bailey to coach anyone?

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2 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

Or because they like the sport...

But would more turn up to watch a winning team with? 

A, zero countrymen

B, some fellow countrymen 

the team is winning either way and if you think option B wouldn't bring extra fans I think you are deluded. The team will win either way, but winning with home players in it will bring extra fans whether that 1-10-100-1k on the attendance

Seriously doubt it would turn away fans if it had home grown players in it

 

 

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9 minutes ago, MikeFletchersBarmyArmy said:

But would more turn up to watch a winning team with? 

A, zero countrymen

B, some fellow countrymen 

the team is winning either way and if you think option B wouldn't bring extra fans I think you are deluded. The team will win either way, but winning with home players in it will bring extra fans whether that 1-10-100-1k on the attendance

Seriously doubt it would turn away fans if it had home grown players in it

 

 

They need to be good enough. 


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4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

There appears to be a few local amateur RL teams playing for fun, I can't see the purpose of plucking players out of them and shifting full professionals to one side to put them in the team as "Token" Canadians?

Those pro's who signed to play would be quite angry, and even at third tier semi pro-level it still has to be a level well above amateurs on the local park playing for fun.

That's why i said Canadian UNION players not League.

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4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

There appears to be a few local amateur RL teams playing for fun, I can't see the purpose of plucking players out of them and shifting full professionals to one side to put them in the team as "Token" Canadians?

Those pro's who signed to play would be quite angry, and even at third tier semi pro-level it still has to be a level well above amateurs on the local park playing for fun.

Oh and referring to amateur RL players in expansion areas in this way makes you sound like John Inverdale and is exactly why you get accused of being a union troll.  You union troll.

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I think it all comes to how you organize the event, your activity etc. 
Games between local club/rep team can be held before TW matches, women's games etc. 
A lot can be done to involve local players, but you cannot simply pick and throw an amateur player into a professional game to attract the interest (?) of local people. 

Edited by MatthewWoody

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3 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

I think it all comes to how you organize the event, your activity etc. 
Games between local club/rep team can be held befor TW matches, women's games etc. 
A lot can be done to involve local players, but you cannot simply pick and throw an amateur player into a professional game to attract the interest (?) of local people. 

Indeed.  The question I suppose is what is in motion to bring on local youth players, particularly as importing might be extra expensive for the club.  


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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3 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Indeed.  The question I suppose is what is in motion to bring on local youth players, particularly as importing might be extra expensive for the club.  

Of course it will. 
But I can see an issue if the TW don't have any Academy-able-to-produce-talent in, say, 5-10 years, not now. 
Nowadays, having a winning team is more important than having locally homegrown players, imho. 

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1 hour ago, Tre Cool said:

Oh and referring to amateur RL players in expansion areas in this way makes you sound like John Inverdale and is exactly why you get accused of being a union troll.  You union troll.

Jeez grow up a bit.  It's only the idiots that make that accusation;)

Do you really think Canadian social RU players will make Championship level RL players, or that International Canadian RU players will give up playing in the RU World cup to play CC1?

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4 minutes ago, Wolford6 said:

How many British ice hockey fans care whether their team is mainly foreign?

The counter-argument is that there are not that many British ice-hockey fans, and maybe the lack of local players is part of that.  

While only the most ludicrous would assert that many local players are a pre-requisite, they would be very useful for the long term strength of the game.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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13 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

A lot can be done to involve local players, but (1) you cannot simply pick and throw an amateur player into a professional game to attract the interest (?) of local people. 

But I can see an issue if the TW don't have any (2) Academy-able-to-produce-talent in, say, 5-10 years, not now.  

(1) indeed 

(2) This is the hurdle to gaining an SL place, Toulouse were told they had to add to the talent pool not take away from it and so they have complied with SL requirements accordingly. How Toronto will comply we wait and see albeit the academy system is in a bit of dissaray at the moment.

Whilst you talk about a TW academy producing talent in 5-10 years do they also fly backwards and forwards from Toronto to the M62.  The Canadian plan must be for their own Toronto Junior League.

Edited by The Parksider

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2 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

While only the most ludicrous would assert that many local players are a pre-requisite, they would be very useful for the long term strength of the game.

I think nobody could deny that.
Can't see Toronto not dealing with youth development anyway, as it is important even from a PR point of view. You know, schools, involving youngsters developing the game etc.

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1 minute ago, The Parksider said:

Whilst you talk about a TW academy producing talent in 5-10 years do they also fly backwards and forwards from Toronto to the M62.  The Canadian plan must be for their own Toronto Junior League.

You can have both. 
You'll never reach the level of the Super League-Championship system, there. 
but you can have both things, I repeat. 


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3 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Yeh, the pro's would love to sit it out for some local rookie.

More to the point is how do you know mr. Rowley and his team would allow Bailey to coach anyone?

Where did I say anywhere that I know that Mr Rowley would allow Bailey to coach anyone?

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2 minutes ago, zorquif said:

Where did I say anywhere that I know that Mr Rowley would allow Bailey to coach anyone?

"Maybe Bailey, for example, has signed in the knowledge that he won't be playing in all the games and also be picking up some experience coaching some up and coming Canadians?" 

Your words. Has Bailey got a coaching certificate?

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1 minute ago, The Parksider said:

"Maybe Bailey, for example, has signed in the knowledge that he won't be playing in all the games and also be picking up some experience coaching some up and coming Canadians?" 

Your words. Has Bailey got a coaching certificate?

'Maybe' seems to be the key word there pal

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3 minutes ago, Moc said:

'Maybe' seems to be the key word there pal

I think the key thing here is the idea that someone who 'maybe' does not have a coaching certificate would be allowed to coach kids.

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Just now, The Parksider said:

I think the key thing here is the idea that someone who 'maybe' does not have a coaching certificate would be allowed to coach kids.

I don’t see it being that un-realistic that a multiple SL winning prop would be brought into a new team to share his experience/tips/advice to any of the younger players in the squad

Actually seems perfectly acceptable reason

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