Article on Cas in the Observer

[Gerrumonside ref]

There's an interview in this weekend's Observer with Steve Gill at Castleford.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/apr/22/steve-gill-the-unlikely-chief-executive-leading-the-castleford-revival

[The Parksider]

"In these parts, rugby league is not so much a hobby as it is a way of life. A quarter of the town’s 40,000 population watch Castleford Tigers" 

Really? Nobody from Ponte or Knottingley then?

[Gates1]

22 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

"In these parts, rugby league is not so much a hobby as it is a way of life. A quarter of the town’s 40,000 population watch Castleford Tigers" 

Really? Nobody from Ponte or Knottingley then?

To be fair more then 10k watch Cas if you include casual viewers, irregular attendees, etc!  Although he was probably referring to regularly attendees in this broader context I'd doubt it's overestimated.

[The Parksider]

10 minutes ago, Gates1 said:

To be fair more then 10k watch Cas if you include casual viewers, irregular attendees, etc!  Although he was probably referring to regularly attendees in this broader context I'd doubt it's incorrect.

 

The context is clearly stated.

The reality is 7,500 people the bulk of them from WMDC watched Cas last year no different to 2008.

The reality is Millward's coaching dragged the club down whilst the brilliant Powell has dragged them right back up there. Gill is a fine fellow but Powell effectively joined his home town club, and joined to get a SL coaching berth. Gill didn't have to do anything to persuade him and can't reasonably be credited with pulling off a masterstroke.

As for debts the Fulton family should take the credit for helping to clear those. It's a vacuuous article.

[Angelic Cynic]

46 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

The context is clearly stated.

The reality is 7,500 people the bulk of them from WMDC watched Cas last year no different to 2008.

The reality is Millward's coaching dragged the club down whilst the brilliant Powell has dragged them right back up there. Gill is a fine fellow but Powell effectively joined his home town club, and joined to get a SL coaching berth. Gill didn't have to do anything to persuade him and can't reasonably be credited with pulling off a masterstroke.

As for debts the Fulton family should take the credit for helping to clear those. It's a vacuuous article.

  All 4 comments BTL on the piece state that it is a good article.

  No surprise that when rugby league does feature in the national press there is a 'supporter' who will is  totally,utterly and wholly

  negative about it.

[Davc1h]

50 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

The context is clearly stated.

The reality is 7,500 people the bulk of them from WMDC watched Cas last year no different to 2008.

The reality is Millward's coaching dragged the club down whilst the brilliant Powell has dragged them right back up there. Gill is a fine fellow but Powell effectively joined his home town club, and joined to get a SL coaching berth. Gill didn't have to do anything to persuade him and can't reasonably be credited with pulling off a masterstroke.

As for debts the Fulton family should take the credit for helping to clear those. It's a vacuuous article.

Do you ever say anything positive about RL?

Just enjoy it for what it is.

[Gates1]

6 hours ago, The Parksider said:

The context is clearly stated.

The reality is 7,500 people the bulk of them from WMDC watched Cas last year no different to 2008.

The reality is Millward's coaching dragged the club down whilst the brilliant Powell has dragged them right back up there. Gill is a fine fellow but Powell effectively joined his home town club, and joined to get a SL coaching berth. Gill didn't have to do anything to persuade him and can't reasonably be credited with pulling off a masterstroke.

As for debts the Fulton family should take the credit for helping to clear those. It's a vacuuous article.

Gill had to persuade the board and Fulton to appoint Powell so deserves some credit. 

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

Shades of last year's Widnes are RL's Leicester City article?

[Adelaide Tiger]

23 hours ago, The Parksider said:

"In these parts, rugby league is not so much a hobby as it is a way of life. A quarter of the town’s 40,000 population watch Castleford Tigers" 

Really? Nobody from Ponte or Knottingley then?

Well picked up Parky. No doubt lazy journalism.  So to help you berate the journalism I have spent the last 24 hours ringing up all the Cas supporters that attended the Good Friday game against Wakey.  The supporters came from:

Castleford 84.6% (why go anywhere else on a Bank Holiday when you can see the team that Steve Gill helped create, with assistance from Darryl Powell)

Pontefract 8.0% (note that is a percentage as opposed to the 8 that support Fev)

SESKU (South Elmsall, South Kirkby and Upton) 5.2%

Wakefield 3.5% (Turncoats according to Wakey fans but conneisuers according to fellow Cas fans)

Knottingley 3% (only usually 2% but the cunning plan by Cas' number one supporter, Peter Box, in closing down Knottingley Sports Centre and Swiming Pool means that more people in Knottingley have more spare time to watch Classy Cas)

Goole 1.5%

Selby 1.5%

Featherstone 1.4% (cannot name them in case their house gets fire bombed by their neighbours)

Altofts 1.3% (and they asked if I would mention the great carvery they had at the Wheatsheaf on the Sunday)

Swillington, Kippax and Great Preston 1.3%

Kirk Smeaton 1.0% (although Dave and Brenda said their son Josh would have been there but he was working and he lives in Darrington)

 Darrington 0.8% (plus Josh there in spirit if not body)

Midlands representing Stoke and Tamworth 0.2%

And please excuse my childishness as no doubt whilst you were noting each location you will be adding up the percentges in you head.  That's why I made sure they did not add up to 100%.

P.S. Every person on this board that has read the OP clearly understands that every team has supporters from beyond their teams town boundary. 

[JonM]

On 23/04/2017 at 10:55 AM, The Parksider said:

The reality is 7,500 people the bulk of them from WMDC watched Cas last year.

As gates1 pointed out, Castleford's home attendance isn't 7500 people who watched every single game. It will be something like 4000 people who watch every game and a further 10 000+ people who watched one or more games - and I'm excluding away fans from that number. If you take Widnes as an example, I believe they had something like 30 000 people on the email list, for an average crowd significantly lower than Cas.

I watched 1 Cambridge United home game last year. One of my sons watched one, with one of his friends. The guy I sit next to at work watched one. That makes 4 people, not 4/29th of a person.

[The Parksider]

31 minutes ago, JonM said:

As gates1 pointed out, Castleford's home attendance isn't 7500 people who watched every single game. It will be something like 4000 people who watch every game and a further 10 000+ people who watched one or more games - and I'm excluding away fans from that number. If you take Widnes as an example, I believe they had something like 30 000 people on the email list, for an average crowd significantly lower than Cas.

I watched 1 Cambridge United home game last year. One of my sons watched one, with one of his friends. The guy I sit next to at work watched one. That makes 4 people, not 4/29th of a person.

Go back to the simplistic quote that started this point that a quarter of the people in Castleford watch the club as though nobody from outside the town watches the club. You may wish to argue that research may show a quarter of them have been once, or whatever it is your trying to contrive, but I'd be sure on the basis of a sloppily thrown together piece on Cas's supposed rise to the top that there was no such research. Only 40K cas population divided by the average gate which included two big derbies.......

Ignore if you will also the fact that Cas's average 7,500 crowd dipped heavily when Millward was coaching and rose back up to normal levels when Powell got the team back on track. You tell me where Cas would be without Mr. Powell never mind Mr. Gill.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

30 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Go back to the simplistic quote that started this point that a quarter of the people in Castleford watch the club as though nobody from outside the town watches the club.

That wasn't the quote. That was just your subjective interpretation of the quote. Quite why you would want to misinterpret something and then get your knickers in such a twist over it, I have no idea. Unless you were just deliberatly trolling to annoy people.

[The Parksider]

18 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

That wasn't the quote. That was just your subjective interpretation of the quote. Quite why you would want to misinterpret something and then get your knickers in such a twist over it, I have no idea. Unless you were just deliberatly trolling to annoy people.

What's annoying is people seizing on this sort of lazy journo stuff. Then you trying to justify it.

7,500 crowds dropped badly under Millward's failed coaching and by the end of last season Powells excellent coaching had brought the fanbase back to 7,500. Cas have indeed wiped off a lot of debt, Mr. Fulton's cheque book has regularly seen to that.

If Trolling means answering a point with some well chosen realities then that is what I'm doing. What exactly are you doing as it seems you are failing to answer my points, Crowds didn't shoot up because of Gill they came back due to Powell. The Fultons are the ones who  have reduced Castleford's debts. 

Deal with that don't troll me.

[DoubleD]

4 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

What's annoying is people seizing on this sort of lazy journo stuff. Then you trying to justify it.

7,500 crowds dropped badly under Millward's failed coaching and by the end of last season Powells excellent coaching had brought the fanbase back to 7,500. Cas have indeed wiped off a lot of debt, Mr. Fulton's cheque book has regularly seen to that.

If Trolling means answering a point with some well chosen realities then that is what I'm doing. What exactly are you doing as it seems you are failing to answer my points, Crowds didn't shoot up because of Gill they came back due to Powell. The Fultons are the ones who  have reduced Castleford's debts. 

Deal with that don't troll me.

The Fultons haven't reduced Castleford's debts, they have turned them into shareholder loans and Jack's son is I believe the sole owner of the clubs shares now. My understanding is he wants a full return, which will be obtained when they sell off Wheldon Road (for housing most probably). That is the reality 

[Trojan]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 10:55 AM, The Parksider said:

The context is clearly stated.

The reality is 7,500 people the bulk of them from WMDC watched Cas last year no different to 2008.

The reality is Millward's coaching dragged the club down whilst the brilliant Powell has dragged them right back up there. Gill is a fine fellow but Powell effectively joined his home town club, and joined to get a SL coaching berth. Gill didn't have to do anything to persuade him and can't reasonably be credited with pulling off a masterstroke.

As for debts the Fulton family should take the credit for helping to clear those. It's a vacuuous article.

No Powell didn't join his hometown club, he's from Ackworth, usually a source of Fev support.  He's a great coach, but he was gutted when he left Fev, in the interview after his last game at Mount Pleasant he was nearly in tears.  Had it not been for the iniquitous licencing, he'd probably still be at Fev and Fev would be in SL!  Another good reason why it should never come back.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

What's annoying is people seizing on this sort of lazy journo stuff.

You were the one who seized on it

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

Then you trying to justify it.

It isn't about me. I haven't tried to justify anything

[Monkeydo]

I really don't know how there hasn't been a post on here from a relative of parksider saying something to the effect of "its heart breaking, he got all worked up after reading a post on this forum and the next thing we knew......hari kari" 

Lighten up you miserable old scrote! 

[Padge]

It doesn't matter where supporters come from, all that matters is the number of them.

 

[Oxford]

On 23/04/2017 at 11:47 AM, Davc1h said:

1) Do you ever say anything positive about RL?

2) Just enjoy it for what it is.

1) I don't recall one example which is why he's often followed by trolls!

2) I think he's completely forgotten how to, even when it's modelled for him.  eg's

Does he love RL? I'm absolutely sure of it. Does he enjoy it? ............   ????????????

Great that Cas are in a national daily and amazing and wonderful that the Observer have remembered what, where TGG is ......... can't be faulted apart from in a forum of course.

Mind you it didn't start too well .......

"As you pull away from the M62 and into the West Yorkshire town of Castleford,....." at least he didn't use imagery from Dante's Inferno or Faust! 

Maybe one day a London Journo will amaze us all by: not mentioning the M62, by avoiding insulting comparisons with another sport, by not focusing on it as  solely northern, by driving around stereotypes rather than using them to brand RL as wanting and amusing and by stopping referring to it in ways that belittle and undermine its qualities, culture, heritage and history. But I'm not holding my breath. 

[The Parksider]

On 23/04/2017 at 11:47 AM, Davc1h said:

Do you ever say anything positive about RL?

Just enjoy it for what it is.

Do you ever read posts more carefully and consider what they are saying? Do you ever step back from what others are shouting out and make up your own mind on the facts? i.e "what it is"?

Because half this board fantasises about what RL could be. Every time a new amateur club starts outside the north they are projected as the next new SL club, every time an International gets a good crowd outside the M62 it's hailed as the good people of the UK seeing the light. In articles like this one a heavily subsidised Cas who have managed to get lapsed fans back thanks to a good coach (which is really "what it is") is hailed as a terrific business success. This isn't being "positive" it's fantasy RL.

Now I LOVE the game and love talking about it and watching it at all levels. What I don't love is those who clearly are not happy that the game which could have sunk to nothing in the 1970's, and could have been swamped by RU post 1996 has survived brilliantly. They want more and will fantasise to get it.

Some of us don't fantasise about what RL could be, we don't hail Toronto as already being a spectacular success, we don't project a new Welsh SL club on the way because Wales is re-starting an amateur league, we don't see the Coventry 4 nations attendance as the UK turning to Rugby league. We do enjoy it for what it is Dav, and we reserve the right not to fantasise about what it could be all the time.  

[The Parksider]

12 hours ago, Padge said:

It doesn't matter where supporters come from, all that matters is the number of them.

I used to discus these things with Cas Vegas an ardent fan who once said that he knew a lot of Cas fans but oddly none who lived in Cas. Another Cas fan explained that nearby Pontefract is keen on RL and roughly splits between being Cas Fans and Fev fans. My missus works with a couple of Cas fans who live in northwest leeds, and an old work mate was a Kippax lad but a Cas fan. My dentist is a West Cumbria lad who moved to Leeds who watches the Bulls.

[Davc1h]

6 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Do you ever read posts more carefully and consider what they are saying? Do you ever step back from what others are shouting out and make up your own mind on the facts? i.e "what it is"?

Because half this board fantasises about what RL could be. Every time a new amateur club starts outside the north they are projected as the next new SL club, every time an International gets a good crowd outside the M62 it's hailed as the good people of the UK seeing the light. In articles like this one a heavily subsidised Cas who have managed to get lapsed fans back thanks to a good coach (which is really "what it is") is hailed as a terrific business success. This isn't being "positive" it's fantasy RL.

Now I LOVE the game and love talking about it and watching it at all levels. What I don't love is those who clearly are not happy that the game which could have sunk to nothing in the 1970's, and could have been swamped by RU post 1996 has survived brilliantly. They want more and will fantasise to get it.

Some of us don't fantasise about what RL could be, we don't hail Toronto as already being a spectacular success, we don't project a new Welsh SL club on the way because Wales is re-starting an amateur league, we don't see the Coventry 4 nations attendance as the UK turning to Rugby league. We do enjoy it for what it is Dav, and we reserve the right not to fantasise about what it could be all the time.  

Plenty of what you say I can agree with.

I know there are many things wrong with RL in the current climate, I know that Cas crowds will drop off if they do not carry on winning games.

Its pretty obvious to anyone that reads your posts that you are passionate about RL.

Where we are different, IMHO, is, I prefer to look at the positive side rather than dwell on the negative. Enjoy what we have regardless of where we are going to be in the future.

I know I am powerless to change where RL is going. You may be different.?

[The Parksider]

15 hours ago, Davc1h said:

Plenty of what you say I can agree with.

I know there are many things wrong with RL in the current climate, I know that Cas crowds will drop off if they do not carry on winning games.

Its pretty obvious to anyone that reads your posts that you are passionate about RL.

Where we are different, IMHO, is.......

1. Enjoy what we have regardless of where we are going to be in the future.

2. I prefer to look at the positive side rather than dwell on the negative. 

I know I am powerless to change where RL is going. You may be different.?

Many thanks for a civilised post. As powerless as we both are what I don't get is why you seem to think I don't enjoy what we have? 

As for "positive" and "negative" these are strange concepts. If being positive is constantly predicting if the RFL do this or that Rugby League will take off big time, or that Toronto will lead to a mass RL movement in North America, or Castleford's decent form on the pitch is somehow a brilliant business model, then I don't class that as positivity, it's pure fantasy.

Also as for "Dwelling on the negative" what's negative about pointing out that there are no magic solutions to the games ills and that, we do rather well to actually survive as a well respected major sport in this country. To stand still when stronger rivals would knock us down, is a massive achievement for us something so many are truly negative about.

Where we differ IMHO is this idea that we argue because we are in two camps. The positive's and the negatives. I think we tend to fall into the wishful thinkers and the realists when we argue, but make no mistake we all love the game on here.

[Oxford]

Seeing the wood for the trees is never found in one poster or based on one side of an argument.

There is no doubt that even the most jaundiced heart-lander-anti-expansionist loves TGG and even the most passionate and dreamy headed let's get teams in the arctic adores the best game in town.

The fact that Cas are in the Observer is excellent and I do wonder why threads go off the beaten track especially over a crucial issue for our sport like press coverage.

 

[gingdong]

On 2017-4-23 at 10:25 AM, The Parksider said:

"In these parts, rugby league is not so much a hobby as it is a way of life. A quarter of the town’s 40,000 population watch Castleford Tigers" 

Really? Nobody from Ponte or Knottingley then?

No TRUE Ponte lad would ever follow a Cas team