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Replacing CLS


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25 minutes ago, bowes said:

I'd consider restructuring the Harry Jepson Trophy to be a cup competition for any club south of Sheffield that wants to enter; basically like the Southern Counties Cup that BARLA used to run.

I'd make the two southern leagues standalone leagues with the winners of each invited to the Challenge Cup the following season. If there were going to be a knockout for league winners I'd want to include the heartland leagues as well a bit like the old BARLA Champions of Champions competition, but also like the old RLC model

Two clubs into the challenge cup when BARLA only get one :) smells of the days when we beat Bristol yet they got the gig that was normally reserved for the winners.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Two clubs into the challenge cup when BARLA only get one :) smells of the days when we beat Bristol yet they got the gig that was normally reserved for the winners.

Not at all as they'd be stand alone leagues. I would give the Hull league their spot back though 

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28 minutes ago, bowes said:

This does make me question whether the years of development effort have really been worth it.

You'll be wanting a move to a  Sept to May season soon :) (Wheels are falling off at Toll Bar at the moment mate, only one Moorends player turned out for them against East Hull)

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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38 minutes ago, Marauder said:

You'll be wanting a move to a  Sept to May season soon :) (Wheels are falling off at Toll Bar at the moment mate, only one Moorends player turned out for them against East Hull)

I'd take that over May-August but I still think the whole game should be looking at March-October 

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16 hours ago, bowes said:

I'd take that over May-August but I still think the whole game should be looking at March-October 

Been on a job today in Hull, A lad who plays for Myton was on site, I had a little chat with him and I asked him if he preferred summer rugby, he said it's ###### and stated the usual reasons, I was talking to an ex-Sheffield Eagles prop Saturday night at my daughters 30th Birthday party, he stopped playing league 4 years ago because he became a fireman, after his initial training and probationary period he started play rugby union (£££'s) for a couple of years and decided to take last year off, he asked me if he could come to Moorends next season along with a centre/second row who played for the RAF Regt and because of family commitments can't play in the summer, looking good for us if it all comes together.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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4 minutes ago, Sick39ed said:

The CLS Should integrate with the NCl and create more divisions. I think that is the best option.

Nottingham were the only club that would have been even close to ready for the NCL. Though there's a case to be made that Hemel belong in the NCL

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38 minutes ago, Sick39ed said:

The CLS Should integrate with the NCl and create more divisions. I think that is the best option.

There's absolutely no reason why the CLS sides can't apply to NCL. It isn't a northerners only club. Whether they are ready is another matter

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1 minute ago, Saint 1 said:

Whereas I know plenty of lads that prefer Summer. Doesn't feel like a prominent issue for Southern teams though given all a Winter season would do is make clubs compete with union

As Bowes said few Southern teams would cope. Outlaws and Chargers last year would have (but Chargers look to have lost their best players this year) but not really beyond that. Additionally, entry into NCL requires clubs to meet off-field criteria which you could maybe make the argument tends to be harder for expansion clubs not as entrenched in their local communities. Even if they manage to overcome all that, why would NCL teams vote to allow a team from say Bristol in, given the increased cost that means for clubs booking coaches for an away game there?

 

We've had Skolars & Hemel in before no reason why Bristol would be an issue

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On the "lack of players" issue, it's a strange one.  When you play London Merit League level, there are some lads who'll play because it's with their mates and some who look down their noses at it.  When you move up to London Premier, there are players who get interested because you're at the higher level.  I heard that Chargers saw a new bunch turn up when they moved up to CLS.  Not sure if there are enough of those players to go around which would support, say, three CLS-level teams.

As I've said before, a big part of this is that nobody works together.

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3 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

Whereas I know plenty of lads that prefer Summer. Doesn't feel like a prominent issue for Southern teams though given all a Winter season would do is make clubs compete with union

Funny when we competed with Union we had

Last year of Yorkshire Combination at 16-17-18 there were 110+ teams

Yorkshire Junior 16 and 17/18 combined now 60 a reduction of 45%

I was told Hull Junior League has its least registrations for 30 years

Pennine had over 100 teams 

Yorkshire Men's League quoted they had their best number of entrants 70 a reduction of 30%

That 70 includes 10 Hull clubs who never played in the Pennine, and how many new teams?

Last week YML advertised 35 matches 27 results meaning 54 teams, virtually no merit games

The North West is doing no better, Cumbria except its NCL teams is on its ######

A lot of teams playing April/May to August meaning  we are even playing less

Every League has less teams meaning less participation, the whole point of the switch

The weather is better but just as many games are postponed if not more for other reasons

Please look at the YJ website under postponements I would say over 50% of the games called off "Lack of players"

The weather is better but less people attend games 

Being negative or just pointing out the facts, sure you will decide

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43 minutes ago, Defender1 said:

Funny when we competed with Union we had

Last year of Yorkshire Combination at 16-17-18 there were 110+ teams

Yorkshire Junior 16 and 17/18 combined now 60 a reduction of 45%

I was told Hull Junior League has its least registrations for 30 years

Pennine had over 100 teams 

Yorkshire Men's League quoted they had their best number of entrants 70 a reduction of 30%

That 70 includes 10 Hull clubs who never played in the Pennine, and how many new teams?

Last week YML advertised 35 matches 27 results meaning 54 teams, virtually no merit games

The North West is doing no better, Cumbria except its NCL teams is on its ######

A lot of teams playing April/May to August meaning  we are even playing less

Every League has less teams meaning less participation, the whole point of the switch

The weather is better but just as many games are postponed if not more for other reasons

Please look at the YJ website under postponements I would say over 50% of the games called off "Lack of players"

The weather is better but less people attend games 

Being negative or just pointing out the facts, sure you will decide

 Moorends look like they could be (holding my breath) running two teams this coming traditional season if all the players who have promised and the people making enquiries bear fruit, the 2nd team may be placed in the 11 aside league for the first season to take a little pressure off of the coaches and management, like they say the hardest call to make as a secretary is the one saying "We aren't coming"

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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Low participation numbers are not just rugby league, football, cricket & athletics all have the same problem. Probably other sports also, but know for sure with those mentioned. No one wants to commit for a period of time, many just want to play when it suits them, and expect a game when available. Meaning a regular misses out. They've all done surveys, but no answers to falling numbers. A lot of "footballers" can play 5 aside on any night they wish, poor substitute for the real thing. 

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16 hours ago, Defender1 said:

Funny when we competed with Union we had

Last year of Yorkshire Combination at 16-17-18 there were 110+ teams

Yorkshire Junior 16 and 17/18 combined now 60 a reduction of 45%

I was told Hull Junior League has its least registrations for 30 years

Pennine had over 100 teams 

Yorkshire Men's League quoted they had their best number of entrants 70 a reduction of 30%

That 70 includes 10 Hull clubs who never played in the Pennine, and how many new teams?

Last week YML advertised 35 matches 27 results meaning 54 teams, virtually no merit games

The North West is doing no better, Cumbria except its NCL teams is on its ######

A lot of teams playing April/May to August meaning  we are even playing less

Every League has less teams meaning less participation, the whole point of the switch

The weather is better but just as many games are postponed if not more for other reasons

Please look at the YJ website under postponements I would say over 50% of the games called off "Lack of players"

The weather is better but less people attend games 

Being negative or just pointing out the facts, sure you will decide

YML still claiming teams that aren't playing in the summer anymore, I've a feeling Toll Bar will be back to winter soon as well, they have gone from two teams full of their own players in the winter to one in the summer that, they are having to phone round to get players to fill a team sheet, If I was involved I'd be looking at skipping right back especially as they've got a clubhouse to run.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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As someone else said its not just rugby who has falling numbers football is a prime example in my local area they had 5 divisions on a satday and 9/10 on a sunday they now have 1 on a satday and 3/4 on a sunday and juniors are down!

Each club have to do what suits them just because winter/summer is right for club doesnt mean its right for everyone.

Im 100% sure that if every rugby league club junior and open age moved back to winter the number would still be down!

I prefer watchi g summer rugby with a cold pint buts thats just my opinion

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The problems that most clubs seem to be having is not so much a winter/summer issue, its more a change in peoples social habits and how they perceive sport in general.

The majority of players these days do not see the sport as a be-all and end-all to what they do. Many players see sport as something they do but not something they want to do every weekend. There are a myriad of other things that people can do on a Saturday from playing sport to watching live events on Sky (including RL when the pro game clashes with the community game), going abroad for stag do's and cheap weekends, going to the many music festivals, visiting family around the country, weekends away etc etc not to mention injuries!!

There are so many competing things to do and many players will slot rugby in around all of these things (that is not a criticism, its just a reality) but will not always make it a priority.

The result is teams these days need a much bigger squad of players to fulfill a full season of fixtures and those do not will struggle to complete the full season.

At my club, Nottingham Outlaws I see this pattern on a regular basis. After 4 league games this season we have used 33 players and only 4 have played in every game.

I do not think this phenomenon is limited to rugby league, I hear the same story locally from rugby union and football teams. 

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I did not not even mention the dreaded season quote all I did was reply to the " would be to make clubs compete with union"

The frustration to me is, we have tried to expand the game out of the heartlands for years, as I have said before this is no disrespect to the hard working volunteers who struggle to keep their club afloat and players on the pitch

  • My club played at Wath Brow on Saturday £1100 for a coach, and we take subs off the players
  • So called semi pro clubs who are not much better than the top amateur clubs get a travel grant, and can claim expenses ie meals, their players get a payment (I know not a lot) 
  • Semi pro clubs get Central Funds, most amateur clubs hope their supporters have deep pockets, could the clubs SP Clubs survive without the funding? Amateur clubs do and they get nothing
  • There were more fans attending at Wath Brow than at Oxford, Hemel, All Golds and its a village
  • Wath have a thriving junior section
  • Even the CLS clubs were funded to a degree

People always mention the sports that are down with participation and there are some but there are also a lot who have stood still and lets ask, Boxing, Rugby Union, Athletics, Triathlon, Netball what they are doing right (Please see sports England) as they have shown an increase, and two of those are contact sports as can be Netball so that old chestnut cannot be used.

The RFL keep saying they want to increase standards, what did David Gent quote "The strong will survive" unfortunately he meant the amateur clubs, and still thought he would be in a job but with the players playing the game 3 professional leagues is too much I would go to 2, supported by the NCL, a lot of players would then end up back at their amateur clubs, hopefully enabling them to put out 2 teams again, if teams are serious ex CLS or league 1 they could apply for the NCL, even have a play off for promotion and relegation to get into the NCL from the regions, even introduce a reserve league something everyone is calling for, would funding be better spent here than out of the heartlands that realistically bring little to the game, do some of the Championship dual register players to League 1 clubs to give their players games so as to not run a reserve team, it is also a way clubs are getting around the salary cap, Hull admitted they could not bring Hadley, Rawsthorne, Naughton back to the club when they had injuries as these players were out on a season long loan so as to keep under the salary cap

A minority sport like ice hockey has tried to expand in the past but now seems to invest in its core and survives with its core fans

Section A3 - Finance final pdf (1).pdf

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