Referees decisions a disgrace - Durham

[GUBRATS]

10 minutes ago, Gates1 said:

Not necessarily about fitness.

For example, a poorly organised defence will mean a team looses the collision more frequently and concedes more penalties.

An effective organised attack will attract more penalties.

Add to that the capabilities of the individual defenders/attackers in terms of strengh, technique, athleticism, determination, etc!  

So you suggest we cant organise a defence ? , why because our coaching staff have never worked in SL ? 

Except they have plenty of SL experience , as have 90% of the players , we arent a team of brickies and window cleaners who've just moved up 

[Gates1]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes and 95% of our squad are and have been SL/NRL quality players for their whole careers , I used the word ' fitness ' to include all the various parts you highlight 

So what makes you think they arent up to it ? , as I said , you are right now making my point for me 

How do opposition players cope when we up the ' Tempo ' of the game ? 

Well most teams haven't been coping when Cas up the tempo, hence the regurlar 3 try in 10 minutes purple patches (which have occurred in both games against you).  

I'm going to use Cas as an example because I watch them the most and we are currently doing some things very well.

Cas use certain harmless looking plays to put teams on the back foot, certain players taking certain carries to certain parts of the field.  Every so often they will speed these plays up.  With the aim of creating a chance or drawing a penalty because opponents get out of position and have to try and slow the game down.  Cas have some clever players who organise this (Gale, Mcshane, Millington).  

Maybe Leigh just lack the personal and coaching to do this as effectively.  To be fair your pivots are in the main, awful (pivots are usually key organisers).

[Gates1]

8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So you suggest we cant organise a defence ? , why because our coaching staff have never worked in SL ? 

Except they have plenty of SL experience , as have 90% of the players , we arent a team of brickies and window cleaners who've just moved up 

The fact that you are second to bottom in the league and are the 4th highest conceding team suggest that you don't organise your defense as well as most other teams.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Gates1 said:

Well most teams haven't been coping when Cas up the tempo, hence the regurlar 3 try in 10 minutes purple patches (which have occurred in both games against you).  

I'm going to use Cas as an example because I watch them the most and we are currently doing some things very well.

Cas use certain harmless looking plays to put teams on the back foot, certain players taking certain carries to certain parts of the field.  Every so often they will speed these plays up.  With the aim of creating a chance or drawing a penalty because opponents get out of position and have to try and slow the game down.  Cas have some clever players who organise this (Gale, Mcshane, Millington).  

Maybe Leigh just lack the personal and coaching to do this as effectively.  To be fair your pivots are in the main, awful (pivots are usually key organisers).

But generally the issues we are having are not during or after your ' purple patches ' take our 1 st game with Cas this year , McShane deliberatly spear tackles Gareth Hock ( the conclusion can only be that Daryll Powell told his players to incite Hock ) into the ground ( deliberate as in placing his arm between Hocks legs and lifting , something outlawed years ago ) , a clear yellow , potential red card , the ref , Mr Hicks gives a penalty , McShane gets a 2/3 match ban , no help to us 

This isnt just about one game , but a succsession of close games where the officials have had an abnormal effect on the result 

 

Anyway , late now , be interesting to see how we are refereed on Friday at Leeds 

[GUBRATS]

9 minutes ago, Gates1 said:

The fact that you are second to bottom in the league and are the 4th highest conceding team suggest that you don't organise your defense as well as most other teams.

 

10 minutes ago, Gates1 said:

The fact that you are second to bottom in the league and are the 4th highest conceding team suggest that you don't organise your defense as well as most other teams.

well I applaud you for stating something quite obvious , somebody has to be top , and somebody else has to be bottom in everything , and again , you are making my point for me , the refs are only human , so they can read a League table , but does that effect their judgement ? 

[Man of Kent]

I don't believe refs have an agenda but I would say there appears to be a wide gap between the quality of referees, i.e. the good ones and the not so good.

[Gates1]

18 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But generally the issues we are having are not during or after your ' purple patches ' take our 1 st game with Cas this year , McShane deliberatly spear tackles Gareth Hock ( the conclusion can only be that Daryll Powell told his players to incite Hock ) into the ground ( deliberate as in placing his arm between Hocks legs and lifting , something outlawed years ago ) , a clear yellow , potential red card , the ref , Mr Hicks gives a penalty , McShane gets a 2/3 match ban , no help to us 

This isnt just about one game , but a succsession of close games where the officials have had an abnormal effect on the result 

 

Anyway , late now , be interesting to see how we are refereed on Friday at Leeds 

How do you know Mcshane intention? Was it different to Crooks intention on Monday?  How do you know? 

Is the only conclusion that DP told his players to incite Hock?  Do you think Powell wold be that bothered about Hock? Would he be more inclined to concentrate on his team playing their own game maybe?

You are clutching at straws.  

[Futtocks]

Wasn't this thread originally about Hull FC getting all the bad decisions? So how come another club's fans have decided it is all about them?

[Gates1]

19 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

 

well I applaud you for stating something quite obvious , somebody has to be top , and somebody else has to be bottom in everything , and again , you are making my point for me , the refs are only human , so they can read a League table , but does that effect their judgement ? 

So you are now suggesting that in the heat of a game, rather than simply judging an incident on what he sees they ref factors in a teams position in the league.  Really?

Incident lyrics your penalty count for the last 5 games:

Cas 9 Leigh 8

Hull 8 Leigh 8

Salford 7 Leigh 10

Wakefield 11 Leigh 10

Saints 8 Leigh 7

On aggregate you have been awarded as many penalties has awarded against you.

 

 

[GUBRATS]

10 minutes ago, Gates1 said:

How do you know Mcshane intention? Was it different to Crooks intention on Monday?  How do you know? 

Is the only conclusion that DP told his players to incite Hock?  Do you think Powell wold be that bothered about Hock? Would he be more inclined to concentrate on his team playing their own game maybe?

You are clutching at straws.  

As I put , it was McShanes 1 st tackle of the season , he placed his arm between Hocks legs , something outlawed years ago , no bad timing , no bad technique , and yes I do believe Powell would tell his players to incite Hock , everybody else's seem to do 

As I put , McShane got a healthy ban , but no help to us , he also showed little concern for his actions , in fact he dropped an elbow onto Hocks chest just to compound things , game still available on catch up if you want to see it , 1 st 2 minutes 

I'd be surprised if Crooks deliberatly went out to injure a recent team mate , but maybe he did 

No straw clutching , the game is available on catch up , watch it if you like , 1 st 2 minutes 

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, Gates1 said:

So you are now suggesting that in the heat of a game, rather than simply judging an incident on what he sees they ref factors in a teams position in the league.  Really?

Incident lyrics your penalty count for the last 5 games:

Cas 9 Leigh 8

Hull 8 Leigh 8

Salford 7 Leigh 10

Wakefield 11 Leigh 10

Saints 8 Leigh 7

On aggregate you have been awarded as many penalties has awarded against you.

 

 

Decisions , not just penalties , so who's clutching at straws now ? 

[Gates1]

10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

As I put , it was McShanes 1 st tackle of the season , he placed his arm between Hocks legs , something outlawed years ago , no bad timing , no bad technique , and yes I do believe Powell would tell his players to incite Hock , everybody else's seem to do 

As I put , McShane got a healthy ban , but no help to us , he also showed little concern for his actions , in fact he dropped an elbow onto Hocks chest just to compound things , game still available on catch up if you want to see it , 1 st 2 minutes 

I'd be surprised if Crooks deliberatly went out to injure a recent team mate , but maybe he did 

No straw clutching , the game is available on catch up , watch it if you like , 1 st 2 minutes 

Most bans issued at the panel didn't induce a red card, this doesn't just happen to Leigh.  It happens across the board.  

With all due respect I'm sure Powell was confident enough in his team not to bother winding Hock up.

These examples of Leigh been treated differently because they are Leigh are nonsense.  

[Gates1]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

I think the majority of the refs we have had this year are subconciously believing us to be a part time team from the Championship that has moved up and will struggle with the increased pace so will attempt to slow our opponents down , when in fact we are a full time team packed with SL/NRL let alone International experience , the commentators talked about it from the start of the season , it becomes self prophecising 

 

This post indicates that you think refs assume your are trying to slow things down, incorrectly.  This suggests penalties would be awarded.  Hence the relevance of the penalty count!

[Oxford]

The article is about as subjective and useless as it gets; just try reffing a couple of games and see how you get on Mr Durham. 

Leanings, preferences,standpoints and viewpoints are all we have but claiming we have something intact, neutral and beyond those very human failings is laughable.

So, all in all, it should bring the house down at Red hall and they could do with a bit humour there. They'll probably invite him in to do something similar at the Xmas do!

[One F in Wakefield]

Durhams just sending his dummy into orbit here - there maye a slight issue with the quality of refs we have at the moment, but i watch most games I go to back on Trinity TV later in the week and I have to admit that away from the stadium, we get just as many 50/50's as the other side, most of the time.

I think generally it evens out over a game and then any absolute shockers will even out over the season.

[LeeF]

9 hours ago, Gates1 said:

Absolute nonsense.   Could it not be that some of your players are struggling with the pace of the game when your opponents up the tempo?  

Spot on

[LeeF]

8 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

So you suggest we cant organise a defence ? , why because our coaching staff have never worked in SL ? 

Except they have plenty of SL experience , as have 90% of the players , we arent a team of brickies and window cleaners who've just moved up 

Try comparing a Cas first choice team with a Leigh first choice team and see how few Leigh players make it into a combined team. Even you with your partisan viewpoint will have to admit that Cas have the superior players

[Kenilworth Tiger]

Christ - there was less fuss when Tansey cored "that try" in Cardiff against Bradford in the last minute.

 

Leigh have just lost 38-0.........38-0 and we're talking about the quality of refs!!!

 

As for the Hull  v Catalans game - it was very very niggly and not easy to rfe. The players took no responsibility in that game in my view

[boris74]

Is it just me that when I see a certain official is in charge of a TV thinks, this could spoil a good game?

The inconsistency is infuriating when certain officials are in charge. Catalan V Hull was a very niggly game with both side messing around at the ruck for pretty much the whole game but randomly only one penalty for moving off the mark! Could have been penalised every set by the rules. 

I expect mistakes with forward passes in the heat of a game but even knock ons. Scrums are taking that long to form that if the VR sees one missed by the ref why not over rule? The end result is the correct call.

3 clear shots to the head - one a red card, Watts on Casty, one a yellow, Moa on Washbrook and one just a penalty, Bousquet on Watts. Subsequently Bousquet and Watts standing for the same charge so why can a team of officials with a VR available be so inconsistent?

Frustrating.

[OMEGA]

I haven't read through every post on this thread so please forgive me if I'm remaking a point already made.

It may be a sour grapes motivated rant from Durham but he's right!

Rank bad officiating has become so much a part of our game that it's now an idiosyncrasy, perhaps we've become so accustomed to it that we don't really recognise how low the quality of our officials has sunk.

Personaly I don't blame the officials, I blame the changing nature of the game or more precisely, the games inability to evolve officiating to match the pace of that change.

Couple this with some 'jobs for the boys' appointments at Red Hall which has seen inappropriate and inadequate Referees Controllers take charge thus accelerating the deterioration.

It's time for a complete unfettered review of the RFLs Offials department followed by a total rebuild leaving it fit for purpose and robust.

I'll add this also, Referee performance should not be exempt from commentary box criticism but the levels of negativity emanating from the SKY microphones does nothing for the game at any level. It doesn't help the viewing experience, it presents a poor impression to the casual TV viewer, I've no doubt it plays a part in the existing disenchantment of current officials while putting off potential new recruits to the Officials courses.

Stuart Cummins has no place in a commentary team and only serves to exacerbate the confusion over the myriad of interpretations of every rule.

Why have we made celebrities of our officials anyway?

In my lifetime watching many sports one thing is universally true across them all. THE BEST OFFICIALS ARE ANONYMOUS, INVISIBLE AND SEEMINGLY HAVE NO BEARING ON THE ACTION OR THE RESULT!

Im sad to say that in Rugby League the truth is the opposite.

Something has to change!

[Spidey]

28 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

I haven't read through every post on this thread so please forgive me if I'm remaking a point already made.

It may be a sour grapes motivated rant from Durham but he's right!

Rank bad officiating has become so much a part of our game that it's now an idiosyncrasy, perhaps we've become so accustomed to it that we don't really recognise how low the quality of our officials has sunk.

Personaly I don't blame the officials, I blame the changing nature of the game or more precisely, the games inability to evolve officiating to match the pace of that change.

Couple this with some 'jobs for the boys' appointments at Red Hall which has seen inappropriate and inadequate Referees Controllers take charge thus accelerating the deterioration.

It's time for a complete unfettered review of the RFLs Offials department followed by a total rebuild leaving it fit for purpose and robust.

I'll add this also, Referee performance should not be exempt from commentary box criticism but the levels of negativity emanating from the SKY microphones does nothing for the game at any level. It doesn't help the viewing experience, it presents a poor impression to the casual TV viewer, I've no doubt it plays a part in the existing disenchantment of current officials while putting off potential new recruits to the Officials courses.

Stuart Cummins has no place in a commentary team and only serves to exacerbate the confusion over the myriad of interpretations of every rule.

Why have we made celebrities of our officials anyway?

In my lifetime watching many sports one thing is universally true across them all. THE BEST OFFICIALS ARE ANONYMOUS, INVISIBLE AND SEEMINGLY HAVE NO BEARING ON THE ACTION OR THE RESULT!

Im sad to say that in Rugby League the truth is the opposite.

Something has to change!

People would take more notice if it was less of a rant, and less sour grapes. As such it should and will be ignored

[RedFlyer]

Adrian Durham is a troll and an idiot. Don't be fooled that just because he says he likes RL due to his time living in Hull that he's one of the good guys in the media. He's very hypocritical, got given his job at the station by Kelvin MacKenzie and worked as his lackey for years before starting out reading the news bulletins. He tries to airbrush this out by saying behind the scenes he argued against The Sun and MacKenzie regards Hillsborough but who does he work for now - News International both in print and on air. He's basically Katie Hopkins of sports radio. 

[dkw]

12 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Wasn't this thread originally about Hull FC getting all the bad decisions? So how come another club's fans have decided it is all about them?

Because said fan is a mental.

[dkw]

4 hours ago, Kenilworth Tiger said:

The players took no responsibility in that game in my view

Absolutely agree with this, its all well and good complaining about the ref but the pressure they are now put under by players desperately trying to cheat penalties almost constantly needs sorting, its a major reason its so difficult to ref a game no.

[phiggins]

Don't particularly care much for using individual games / incidents in games to highlight issues, as that is subjective based on who you support. But main general issues in my opinion are;

• Frequency of referees leaving the game. This is surely going to impact the quality, in the same way as losing the best players would. Something needs to be done about it
• The fad nature of what rules will be clamped down on (moving off the mark this year). Just enforce the rules of the game.
• Similarly to above point, interpretations or protocols that just confuse matters. E.g. Refs call, and the issue with hookers playing for penalties at the start of the season. Why can't refs just make a call on whether the acting half has made a genuine attempt to distribute the ball, and whether the defender has made a genuine attempt to get out of the way, and make his decision accordingly? (We don't half complicate a simple game!)
• Can we go back to tackling instead of wrestling as well? Taking the NRLs rule of 3rd tackler below knee height would be a start. 
• Who does the grading of disciplinary charges? No consistency at all.