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Tongs ya bas

Attitudes to Toronto in today's League Express

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I despair. I sometimes wish that rugby league should be handed over to the small minded flat cappers and let them get on with it: and see where they end up.

Martyn Sadler reports of Super League Clubs objecting to the possibility of Toronto in Super League, because they are unlikely to bring away supporters. Six clubs voted against them. And quite legitimately  he supposes that they would like to see Catalan out of SL as well. Just how lazy, parochial and unambiguously this? It is up to clubs at whatever level to fill their stadiums, but even if we put that to one side it's an indictment of attitudes at the top level of rugby league.

Then I gingerly turned to the letters page to see what the green ink merchants have been up to, and it's the usual refs pick on us, my team is the best, and so on, but even worse we now have a growing constituency of torontophobes, or let's face it people who are phobic of any growth outside their little corner of the world and for whom everything is  'unfair' if it doesn't suit their corrugated iron mentality. 

Knurr and spell anyone?

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7 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

I despair. I sometimes wish that rugby league should be handed over to the small minded flat cappers and let them get on with it: and see where they end up.

I think you're getting (have already got) your wish Tongs.

 

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14 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

I despair. I sometimes wish that rugby league should be handed over to the small minded flat cappers and let them get on with it: and see where they end up.

Martyn Sadler reports of Super League Clubs objecting to the possibility of Toronto in Super League, because they are unlikely to bring away supporters. Six clubs voted against them. And quite legitimately  he supposes that they would like to see Catalan out of SL as well. Just how lazy, parochial and unambiguously this? It is up to clubs at whatever level to fill their stadiums, but even if we put that to one side it's an indictment of attitudes at the top level of rugby league.

Then I gingerly turned to the letters page to see what the green ink merchants have been up to, and it's the usual refs pick on us, my team is the best, and so on, but even worse we now have a growing constituency of torontophobes, or let's face it people who are phobic of any growth outside their little corner of the world and for whom everything is  'unfair' if it doesn't suit their corrugated iron mentality. 

Knurr and spell anyone?

Unless they return to franchasing they cannot deny Toronto or Toulouse admission to SL under current competition rules. It would be an absolute legal minefield as you already have a voting member from France. 

Bringing away fans a criteria? Honestly? Why don't they go the whole hog and set a "two hours" drive away limit on any club in SL?

Edited by Scubby
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SL clubs should not be worrying about away spectators. They get £1.8M per season gifted to them FFS

If they're that skint why did they vote for the Salary Cap increase and the dispensations for Marquee Players, they obviously can't afford them

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1 minute ago, Scubby said:

Unless they return to franchasing they cannot deny Toronto or Toulouse admission to SL under current competition rules. It would be an absolute legal minefield as you already have a voting member from France. 

Yes, but that such attitudes exist at top level, let alone the bottom feeders in the letters pages of LE, really are depressing

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3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Unless they return to franchasing they cannot deny Toronto or Toulouse admission to SL under current competition rules. It would be an absolute legal minefield as you already have a voting member from France. 

Bringing away fans a criteria? Honestly? Why don't they go the whole hog and set a "two hours" drive away limit on any club in SL?

Quite

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1 minute ago, Tongs ya bas said:

Yes, but that such attitudes exist at top level, let alone the bottom feeders in the letters pages of LE, really are depressing

It will not change unless change is forced on them kicking and screaming. Richard Lewis helped to push Catalans through in the early 2000s. It was truly ground breaking for an insular self serving sport. Could you imagine the current cronies at the RFL now trying to do the same?

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Pathetic

small minded clubs depending on big away followings to ensure they dont go under

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35 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Unless they return to franchasing they cannot deny Toronto or Toulouse admission to SL under current competition rules. It would be an absolute legal minefield as you already have a voting member from France. 

How many times Scubby

You don't listen to anything and anything you may be told and don't like. well you put on ignore.

Les Catalans are guest members and so they do not vote.

That is why the vote on the new structure was 7-6.

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38 minutes ago, Spidey said:

SL clubs should not be worrying about away spectators. They get £1.8M per season gifted to them FFS

More ill informed nonsense. If you discussed these things you may understand that the £1.8M is not enough to run an SL club, the clubs turn over £Millions and need as many income streams as they can and that means derbies and away fans.

Now I suspect you will troll me and call me names as a reply.

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1 minute ago, The Parksider said:

More ill informed nonsense. If you discussed these things you may understand that the £1.8M is not enough to run an SL club, the clubs turn over £Millions and need as many income streams as they can and that means derbies and away fans.

Now I suspect you will troll me and call me names as a reply.

Well run clubs shouldnt be depending on away following - as a business model that is set up to failure

Small teams have depending on away following from likes of Wigan, Leeds, Hull for too long

 

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5 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Now I suspect you will troll me and call me names as a reply.

This thread isn't about you. Please don't try and turn it into a thread about you by goading such responses.

Thank you.

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4 minutes ago, Moc said:

Well run clubs shouldnt be depending on away following - as a business model that is set up to failure

Small teams have depending on away following from likes of Wigan, Leeds, Hull for too long

 

The good news is all those three had pish poor followings this season compared to other years - Thursday/Friday night RL!

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I've been borderline obsessed with RL since about 1996, and there's only been one occasion when I thought about taking a break from watching it.  When Gateshead "merged" with Hull and ceased to exist.  If the SL clubs voted against Toronto coming in I would have a very similar reaction I'm sure.

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1 hour ago, Tongs ya bas said:

I despair. I sometimes wish that rugby league should be handed over to the small minded flat cappers and let them get on with it: and see where they end up.

Martyn Sadler reports of Super League Clubs objecting to the possibility of Toronto in Super League, because they are unlikely to bring away supporters. Six clubs voted against them. And quite legitimately  he supposes that they would like to see Catalan out of SL as well. Just how lazy, parochial and unambiguously this? It is up to clubs at whatever level to fill their stadiums, but even if we put that to one side it's an indictment of attitudes at the top level of rugby league.

Please don't use the term flat cappers. It was banned on here.

Most people I converse with want expansion, but they want it to be sustainable and meet the targets that SL bosses set for that expansion.

Populating SL with Canadian clubs who do not provide any additional TV revenue, and do not bring away fans, and do not develop their own players, nor provide International competition brings no benefit to SL.

Mr. Sadler may "suppose" but actions will speak louder than words and we shall see with Catalans. If two new SL places come in and Toronto don't get in then hopefully Bradford and HKR will. Meanwhile Catalans can perhaps up their game on local players with Toulouse and work towards those competetive GB/France tests.

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I must confess that there's a part of me that would love to see the SL attempt to exclude Toronto when - as they surely will - they qualify, by right, for SL at the end of the 2018 season.

The people who own and manage TW don't seem like the calibre of people to take such a small-minded and insular viewpoint laying down!

It must surely be obvious, even to the inward-looking people who run some of our SL clubs, that the owners and investors in TW haven't pumped in money so that they can slum around the lower echelons on RL on a permanent basis?

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4 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

I've been borderline obsessed with RL since about 1996, and there's only been one occasion when I thought about taking a break from watching it.  When Gateshead "merged" with Hull and ceased to exist.  If the SL clubs voted against Toronto coming in I would have a very similar reaction I'm sure.

If it was for the reasons outlined in the OP I would give up on the domestic game here altogether.

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5 minutes ago, Moc said:

Well run clubs shouldnt be depending on away following - as a business model that is set up to failure

Small teams have depending on away following from likes of Wigan, Leeds, Hull for too long

 

They shouldn't have to, but my bet would be, all but about 6 clubs in the British game are almost totally dependent on away support. The problem is, if you just have a game consisting of teams that are "well run" and do not have to rely on away support, then those 6 clubs would be playing each other every couple of weeks and how boring would that be?

Don't forget, one of those 6 will always finish bottom of the pile and so wil become, as the eloquent poster above points out, a "bottom feeder" before long. 

The problem with the game, is the disparity between the have's and have not's. Odd teams have broken in to the elite, (Castleford) maybe because the salary cap has been more closely administered in the last couple of years, so they could compete on a level playing field with the likes of Leeds, but with the introduction of the new increased marquee signings, that gap will only widen again.

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I've never heard once Canberra grumble about away fans. Same for Townsville and a few other teams.

Fill your ground with your own people and you'll do well.

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1 minute ago, paulwalker71 said:

I must confess that there's a part of me that would love to see the SL attempt to exclude Toronto when - as they surely will - they qualify, by right, for SL at the end of the 2018 season.

The people who own and manage TW don't seem like the calibre of people to take such a small-minded and insular viewpoint laying down!

It must surely be obvious, even to the inward-looking people who run some of our SL clubs, that the owners and investors in TW haven't pumped in money so that they can slum around the lower echelons on RL on a permanent basis?

They don't qualify by right Paul. They have to be invited in on a majority vote. Read the posts on these votes..

The money that Argyle pumps into Toronto does not benefit Superleague. No away fans come from it, no additional players to the playing pool come of it, no TV deal to share has come of it and no International Canada.v.GB games come of it.

 

 

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Just now, The Parksider said:

They don't qualify by right Paul. They have to be invited in on a majority vote. Read the posts on these votes..

The money that Argyle pumps into Toronto does not benefit Superleague. No away fans come from it, no additional players to the playing pool come of it, no TV deal to share has come of it and no International Canada.v.GB games come of it.

Then this should have been made crystal clear to David Argyle BEFORE the formation of Toronto Wolfpack.

Perhaps it was, but I sincerely doubt it.

To invite a new franchise into the pyramid, as the RFL did, only to then later say (after massive financial investment) "Oh, and by the way, you can't get into the top division' is immoral. And, as I said, I really don't see David Argyle taking it laying down - he seems like the kinda guy who gets his way on things. I'd expect it to be tested through the Courts, at the very least...

And to use the excuse about away fans (which is the only issue mentioned) is ridiculous. At no stage would anybody ever have thought that Toronto were going to bring away fans. It's not like the SL chairman have suddenly realised that TW won't bring away fans - any fool could work that one out whilst Toronto were at the planning stage.

So what's changed now to make this suddenly be mentioned?

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30 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

More ill informed nonsense. If you discussed these things you may understand that the £1.8M is not enough to run an SL club, the clubs turn over £Millions and need as many income streams as they can and that means derbies and away fans.

Now I suspect you will troll me and call me names as a reply.

I know they need more, but the £1.8M is probably their biggest one source of income. 

Business need to build models on what they can control. They should be in a position to best control the number of home fans. If their model falls down just because of away fans at one fixture per year it is flawed

I see you've also ignored my second point. How can clubs afford a salary cap increase but can't afford to lose away fans for one fixture?

Edited by Spidey
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