ckn Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 I got paid today. Aaaand relax about bills for the first time in months. I've had a lot of time to reflect over job hunting since I made the first post here. I'm now convinced that recruitment agencies are an absolute bust for me these days. My job history since leaving the army: - I left uni in 1998 and went to sign on because I didn't have a job lined up, while waiting for my initial interview I looked around the jobs on the boards and actually found one that I could do fairly well. Called them and ended up with a job before I could qualify for benefits. - 2000, job found through The Times, direct advert by the company - 2001, another job found through The Times job advert. - 2007-2014, two contracts through agencies but both were direct personal recommendations rather than agency advert or contact, two through an excellent agency knowing me and not having to advertise, one other contract through a company doing a LinkedIn trawl. - 2014, joined NHS, direct applicant - 2017 (work after redundancy) all through personal contacts and direct with organisations - current work secured through personal contacts and no agency involved Every time I have spoken to an agency speculatively, or applied for an advertised job, I get nowhere. Not once have I secured a job through applying for a job through an agency. This is a huge problem for me for future work as most companies use agencies to find employees. When I get through to the decision makers, even if I don't know them or there's no other link I can use to promote myself, I get work; when I have to go through agencies I'm just wasting my time. Now I look back, it should have been very noticeable when I was self-employed, I did about half consulting and half contract work with the consulting work (normally notoriously difficult to get) being far easier for me to get than contract work through agencies. I know what I'd recommend to people hunting for jobs and getting the same effect: Bypass the agencies. Write speculative letters to companies you admire, ruthlessly exploit your contacts (and return the favour at every time you can) and make sure you answer clearly why the companies you're contacting should employ you, what can YOU do for THEM. Never write "dear sir/madam" letters, try to find a name, even if it means calling reception and asking to be put through to the HR Recruitment team to try to get a name. Oh, and you're more likely to get a response if you can personalise it in some way to show it's not a form letter, e.g. "I saw your (your company's) article/news in x newspaper/journal about (exciting stuff that interests you), that's a passion of mine (give a SHORT paragraph of proof) and I really would love to help you achieve that. Here's why you should meet me for a coffee to discuss this: (three bullets of things that matter to them but are why you're good)" I'm just happy I have a decent bit of work now but I thoroughly empathise with others hunting and seeing their bank account get lower (depressing?) with every bill. p.s. I received a call on Monday from an agency who I'd worked with in the NHS when I was an employer. They were a persistent bunch when I was a senior manager with jobs on offer, as soon as I wanted a job they wouldn't take my calls. They even had jobs advertised that I could have written job descriptions for based on my skills and they STILL wouldn't take my calls. They'd heard I was back in the game and called thinking I may have jobs on the go for them to find. It was really quite fun saying "no, I won't do business with you, you've blown that, please remove my details from your system". "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSantos Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Still no update Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ben-dyas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, MattSantos said: Still no update Any help or advice we can give you on this forum beyond support? "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSantos Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Thank you. I have a very decent job but i want to move away from investment banking. The role is with a global energy firm and would open up other opportunities in oil&gas. Im lucky that ive a stable role; im just shocked that i can interview for a senior role, be very suitable (i was head hunted) smash the interview and hear nothing back after a month. Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ben-dyas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, MattSantos said: Thank you. I have a very decent job but i want to move away from investment banking. The role is with a global energy firm and would open up other opportunities in oil&gas. Im lucky that ive a stable role; im just shocked that i can interview for a senior role, be very suitable (i was head hunted) smash the interview and hear nothing back after a month. It could be an internal reorganisation going on, or budget issues or similar. Are they in the news for anything? Any major changes in share prices or anything like that? I know one big telecoms company that has a policy of complete recruitment freeze if they get disappointing financial results. Also, it may be that you're the "reserve" and they're waiting for the successful candidate to start. I've seen that before, they string you along hoping you don't go anywhere as a backup for if the main candidate turns it down. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSantos Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 It is the season for freeze. Ive interviewed 8 people myself recently and each one has been given feedback as to why theyve not been given the nod. Its not hard to make sure HR send it on. Id hate to be desperate for a job, as people have illustrated, recruitment agents and HR departments are often sub human #### Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ben-dyas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, ckn said: It could be an internal reorganisation going on, or budget issues or similar. Are they in the news for anything? Any major changes in share prices or anything like that? I know one big telecoms company that has a policy of complete recruitment freeze if they get disappointing financial results. Also, it may be that you're the "reserve" and they're waiting for the successful candidate to start. I've seen that before, they string you along hoping you don't go anywhere as a backup for if the main candidate turns it down. As a agency user from both ends as it were I’d be interested in your take on this A few years ago now I was sent for an interview at a company in Silsden by an agency I was signed up with. It was a bit of a commute for me but I needed a job. Anyway the interview is going well, very well, in fact I’m smashing it until, “So what salary would you be looking for?” ”well for a position with these responsibilities I’d be looking for £X” LONG silence from interviewers ”Oh we were really thinking in the region of £W” ”I”ll increase your cash flow by x%, I’ll decrease your bad debt by y% that alone will more than pay the difference between w and x. I’m worth it” I didn’t get the job and the agency were massively displeased with me. what do you think? "Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 24 minutes ago, Phil said: As a agency user from both ends as it were I’d be interested in your take on this A few years ago now I was sent for an interview at a company in Silsden by an agency I was signed up with. It was a bit of a commute for me but I needed a job. Anyway the interview is going well, very well, in fact I’m smashing it until, “So what salary would you be looking for?” ”well for a position with these responsibilities I’d be looking for £X” LONG silence from interviewers ”Oh we were really thinking in the region of £W” ”I”ll increase your cash flow by x%, I’ll decrease your bad debt by y% that alone will more than pay the difference between w and x. I’m worth it” I didn’t get the job and the agency were massively displeased with me. what do you think? Did you discuss the salary in advance with the agency? If you did and what you said was in the range you discussed? If so, no issues. If you didn't discuss the salary with the agency, that's their problem then. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BULLETT Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 My advice would be .. move on. If you feel like you are not being paid a fair £ then the chances are you are working for the wrong employer . Sorry to Saint 1 "Eh Up, potty mouth. I know life hasn't been kind to you, but there's no need to parade your resentful jealousy on here." JohnM 16th April 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glossop saint Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 I have been working in a well paid job that I am very lucky to have but not in the area I want. After 5 months of various interviews, companies dragging their feet with recruitment processes, and relying on agencies for opportunities I finally got an offer yesterday. Good luck to everyone on the hunt for something. I really hope that you get a job that is rewarding and you enjoy, life is too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonM Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Saint 1 said: I just wanted to know if this was something people had any experience of Different career, different company, but we give new graduates a payrise every 6 months in their first 2 years and for the typical person I'd expect that to add up to at least a 30% increase over their starting salary as new graduates (in the UK anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 I received a call on Tuesday from a recruitment agent trying to convince me to apply for a job. Me - "no, sorry, I'm busy for about the next 6-9 months" Them - "but this is a life changing role that you must consider" Me - "still not interested" Them - "just hear us out, I think you may change your mind". Me - "oh go on then, tell me what it is but I'm still not doing it". Them - "Assistant store manager at a major supermarket chain". Me - "have you actually read my CV?" Them - "you were specially shortlisted using our proprietary searches of job sites based on your skills and experience" Me - "no... I think you may have the wrong person, not interested" They sent me the job spec anyway. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSantos Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 I didn't get the job - no feedback. I've heard that they gave it to a 'local'. Why even bother if that's the objective from the start. Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ben-dyas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 14 hours ago, ckn said: I received a call on Tuesday from a recruitment agent trying to convince me to apply for a job. Me - "no, sorry, I'm busy for about the next 6-9 months" Them - "but this is a life changing role that you must consider" Me - "still not interested" Them - "just hear us out, I think you may change your mind". Me - "oh go on then, tell me what it is but I'm still not doing it". Them - "Assistant store manager at a major supermarket chain". Me - "have you actually read my CV?" Them - "you were specially shortlisted using our proprietary searches of job sites based on your skills and experience" Me - "no... I think you may have the wrong person, not interested" They sent me the job spec anyway. To be fair, that would be life changing. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 My daughter has just returned to the UK after working in Australia and New Zealand and travelling in South East Asia, India and Central America between her jobs. She has applied for one job, got the interview and then got the job. She has a 100% interview to job success rate in 7 jobs, in different types of job. She hasn't always converted applications to interviews but when she does, she gets it. The interview is vital - it's often said (and having interviewed and hired numerous times myself) that if your CV is right and the company has serious interest you get the job within the first minute of the interview and the remaining time is actually the interviewee making their mind up, if they haven't already. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 hour ago, tim2 said: My daughter has just returned to the UK after working in Australia and New Zealand and travelling in South East Asia, India and Central America between her jobs. She has applied for one job, got the interview and then got the job. She has a 100% interview to job success rate in 7 jobs, in different types of job. She hasn't always converted applications to interviews but when she does, she gets it. The interview is vital - it's often said (and having interviewed and hired numerous times myself) that if your CV is right and the company has serious interest you get the job within the first minute of the interview and the remaining time is actually the interviewee making their mind up, if they haven't already. I wish that were the case in many industries. In the NHS, we had a rule for interviews where you had to interview three candidates for "fairness", even if you had 100% made your mind up that one candidate was the perfect one and you'd have preferred to give them a shot first before going to also-ran candidates. If you wanted to cut that to two interviewees then you had to get HR permission, if you wanted only one, even if there was only one candidate applying, then you had to get the MD's permission. Even in one big law firm I worked at we had to have two candidates. That meant you were wasting your time, the candidate's time and introducing false hope for an artificial "fairness" that could never apply anyway. I suggested in one meeting with HR that they sit in in interviews where we only want one candidate, I was told "do you think this is the 1990s?" "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonM Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 hours ago, ckn said: I wish that were the case in many industries. In the NHS, we had a rule for interviews where you had to interview three candidates for "fairness", Christ. If we had three qualified candidates turn up for an interview, I'd be on the phone to my boss to get two new jobs created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, JonM said: Christ. If we had three qualified candidates turn up for an interview, I'd be on the phone to my boss to get two new jobs created. We were expected to invite at least the top three candidates after shortlisting, even if number 2 and 3 were unqualified for the job. Candidates failing to meet minimum standards at shortlisting is one way to get approval to reduce to 2, but you had to prove it. To get down to the best candidate only, you had to give good reasons why you didn't cancel the recruitment and start again to get a wider audience, it was rarely approved to give only one person an interview. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza77 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 3 hours ago, ckn said: I wish that were the case in many industries. In the NHS, we had a rule for interviews where you had to interview three candidates for "fairness", even if you had 100% made your mind up that one candidate was the perfect one and you'd have preferred to give them a shot first before going to also-ran candidates. If you wanted to cut that to two interviewees then you had to get HR permission, if you wanted only one, even if there was only one candidate applying, then you had to get the MD's permission. Even in one big law firm I worked at we had to have two candidates. That meant you were wasting your time, the candidate's time and introducing false hope for an artificial "fairness" that could never apply anyway. I suggested in one meeting with HR that they sit in in interviews where we only want one candidate, I was told "do you think this is the 1990s?" We don't have that policy. Mind you, most jobs I've advertised over the last few years wouldn't have got to 3 that met the necessary criteria... Please view my photos. http://www.hughesphoto.co.uk/ Little Nook Farm - Caravan Club Certificated Location in the heart of the Pennines overlooking Hebden Bridge and the Calder Valley. http://www.facebook.com/LittleNookFarm Little Nook Cottage - 2-bed self-catering cottage in the heart of the Pennines overlooking Hebden Bridge and the Calder Valley. Book now via airbnb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, gazza77 said: We don't have that policy. Mind you, most jobs I've advertised over the last few years wouldn't have got to 3 that met the necessary criteria... It was introduced to try to cut down on the NHS's rampant cronyism. Works about as well as you'd imagine. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleep1673 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Got a job interview tomorrow at Debenhams Restaurant in Hastings. Not looking forward to it, as I have just been on Trip Advisor, and it gets a really bad review. Ah well, lets see how quickly they kick me out when I try to improve the image. See you tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyXIII Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said: Got a job interview tomorrow at Debenhams Restaurant in Hastings. Not looking forward to it, as I have just been on Trip Advisor, and it gets a really bad review. Ah well, lets see how quickly they kick me out when I try to improve the image. See you tomorrow. Good luck! Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society Founder (and, so far, only) member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said: Got a job interview tomorrow at Debenhams Restaurant in Hastings. Not looking forward to it, as I have just been on Trip Advisor, and it gets a really bad review. Ah well, lets see how quickly they kick me out when I try to improve the image. See you tomorrow. If someone could be harrissed to keep the windows clean in there it would be a winner. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said: Got a job interview tomorrow at Debenhams Restaurant in Hastings. Not looking forward to it, as I have just been on Trip Advisor, and it gets a really bad review. Ah well, lets see how quickly they kick me out when I try to improve the image. See you tomorrow. Good luck. Without wanting to get into that whole egg-sucking thing when they ask you "do you have any questions for us" why not go with "Why are your trip adviser reviews so bad? It looks delightful to me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 As good a thread as any for this. Here's a link to a free course on managing the professional development and well-being of your staff members. It's aimed at new or aspiring managers, or those with few qualifications but, come to think of it, there's plenty of senior managers who could be doing with it! It's part of the Chartered Management Institute's programme towards Chartered Manager status as well, if you're into that sort of thing. Go on, develop yourself and learn how to better look after those who work for you. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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