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56 minutes ago, Damien said:

Very good. Where I am I am now I am now at the stage where I am being pushed more and more down the management route too. A lot of planning, project, writing business cases stuff.  I used to love the hands on stuff but don't get much chance to do it now, again part of the reason for leaving as a lot of roles pay more outside, some way more, and still seem to be more technical. One more promotion and it certainly would be pure management. That's part of the reason for looking at new opportunities before that happens as it would be hard to see myself leaving then.

The good thing about I.T is that you never stop learning. When one area dries up 2 or 3 more come on the scene. DevOps looks good too but like I say I don't feel the most comfortable coder, I certainly wouldn't want to risk leaving for that field. I have worked with contractors getting £400+ a day doing that and could never see myself competing in that space. The cloud stuff is huge and I suppose ideally if I left it would be a cyber sec role at a place with a big cloud component. Best of both worlds then.

Do you work in the public sector at the moment?

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11 minutes ago, Damien said:

That obvious 😂. Hence why its the trade off between stability, flexibility and good working conditions v money and more cutting edge.

😁

It was the "part of the reason for leaving as a lot of roles pay more outside" sentence.  The only people I know who use the phrase 'outside' when describing their employment are in the public sector.  The only other logic option was being in prison!

Yes, there is a lot to be said for security and stability.  I wouldn't advise either way, but I will say that a Cyber Security pro will not struggle to get a gig. 

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34 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

😁

It was the "part of the reason for leaving as a lot of roles pay more outside" sentence.  The only people I know who use the phrase 'outside' when describing their employment are in the public sector.  The only other logic option was being in prison!

Yes, there is a lot to be said for security and stability.  I wouldn't advise either way, but I will say that a Cyber Security pro will not struggle to get a gig. 

That's so true now you've said it!

Yeah I'm just seeing what happens and testing the water. I'm in no rush or great need but will certainly consider the right role if it comes along.

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Lots of technical roles going here -

https://www.oneweb.world/careers

Most London based (sorry!), but some are remote working.

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Not sure how I managed to post this in the Union players thread but...

One piece of advice that I will give anyone in the Cyber field is to get your DV clearance if you don't have it already. This reduces the candidate pool massively for some key jobs and in my experience DV cleared candidates have a licence to print money (ok small exaggeration).

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I've been getting messed around in the last week. I got offered a job a week ago subject to a DBS check, no problem, done them before.

They ask me to fill some stuff in online and submit some documents, did as asked. A couple of days later got an email asking me to submit one of mg documents again. Filled in the info correctly as far as I could tell. Got another email today asking me the same thing and to upload a picture of the document. They hadn't asked me to do that last time so I click on the link and there is nowhere to upload the document. I've tried ringing them twice and I've left a voicemail to try to get someone to ring me back and explain what I'm supposed to do but no one has got back to me yet. 

I've decided now that I don't want the job enough to be messed around like this so I'm gonna leave it until tomorrow to see if someone gets back to me and if not I'm gonna send them an email saying something along the lines of, 'due to a change in personal circumstances I am going to have to decline the offer of a job'. I've submitted the info they wanted twice and only the third time did they ask for an upload of the document, they've got copies of 3 other documents, they've got plenty of info for a DBS to be done and I can't be doing with being f***ed about this much, I'm getting very stressed and it isn't good for my health so they can stuff their job! 

Edited by The Hallucinating Goose
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19 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Not sure how I managed to post this in the Union players thread but...

One piece of advice that I will give anyone in the Cyber field is to get your DV clearance if you don't have it already. This reduces the candidate pool massively for some key jobs and in my experience DV cleared candidates have a licence to print money (ok small exaggeration).

When I last had involvement with any form of clearance you needed a sponsor and a reason to get cleared, for example the company I worked for was a contractor to a number of Government security related organisations and any one that was requierd to work in (for example) areas of MoD Main or Northfleet had to be cleared but you couldn't just go and get cleared because you fancied it.

 

Edited to add:

This was around 12 years ago so things may have changed

Edited by Shadow
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4 minutes ago, Shadow said:

When I last had involvement with any form of clearance you needed a sponsor and a reason to get cleared, for example the company I worked for was a contractor to a number of Government security related organisations and any one that was requierd to work in (for example) areas of MoD Main or Northfleet had to be cleared but you couldn't just go and get cleared because you fancied it.

 

Edited to add:

This was around 12 years ago so things may have changed

No, I think you are right. I have been through the process as a manager sponsoring a DV candidate and being interviewed.

My point is that when you do get it, it is of real value to the individual... to the point where 6 or even 12 month notice terms were negotiated pre clearance with team members as they are very employable afterwards. 

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22 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

No, I think you are right. I have been through the process as a manager sponsoring a DV candidate and being interviewed.

My point is that when you do get it, it is of real value to the individual... to the point where 6 or even 12 month notice terms were negotiated pre clearance with team members as they are very employable afterwards. 

Absolutely, if you can get it it's very useful. 
I seem to recall you could keep it current even if your role didn't require clearance, and it went with the individual not the organisation. 

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2 hours ago, Shadow said:

Absolutely, if you can get it it's very useful. 
I seem to recall you could keep it current even if your role didn't require clearance, and it went with the individual not the organisation. 

I seem to remember you needed a company to 'hold' the clearance.  So if you went to a company that didn't have that set up, you would lose it or it would lapse after a certain time.  

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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3 hours ago, Shadow said:

Absolutely, if you can get it it's very useful. 
I seem to recall you could keep it current even if your role didn't require clearance, and it went with the individual not the organisation. 

I was told it goes with both - you are vetted as an individual for a specific role/organisation

The advantage is it shows future employers it is worth the hassle of starting the process as it is likely to come through in the end

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1 hour ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

I seem to remember you needed a company to 'hold' the clearance.  So if you went to a company that didn't have that set up, you would lose it or it would lapse after a certain time.  

 

47 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

I was told it goes with both - you are vetted as an individual for a specific role/organisation

The advantage is it shows future employers it is worth the hassle of starting the process as it is likely to come through in the end

You could well be right, I was only ever SC cleared and that was 30 odd years ago,and I haven't worked in a situation where it was necessary for well over 10 years.

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On 01/02/2021 at 18:31, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I've been getting messed around in the last week. I got offered a job a week ago subject to a DBS check, no problem, done them before.

They ask me to fill some stuff in online and submit some documents, did as asked. A couple of days later got an email asking me to submit one of mg documents again. Filled in the info correctly as far as I could tell. Got another email today asking me the same thing and to upload a picture of the document. They hadn't asked me to do that last time so I click on the link and there is nowhere to upload the document. I've tried ringing them twice and I've left a voicemail to try to get someone to ring me back and explain what I'm supposed to do but no one has got back to me yet. 

I've decided now that I don't want the job enough to be messed around like this so I'm gonna leave it until tomorrow to see if someone gets back to me and if not I'm gonna send them an email saying something along the lines of, 'due to a change in personal circumstances I am going to have to decline the offer of a job'. I've submitted the info they wanted twice and only the third time did they ask for an upload of the document, they've got copies of 3 other documents, they've got plenty of info for a DBS to be done and I can't be doing with being f***ed about this much, I'm getting very stressed and it isn't good for my health so they can stuff their job! 

Right well, in a hour it will have been 2 days since I left a voicemail and it will be about a day and half since I emailed saying I don't want the job anymore and I have heard absolutely nothing at all so I'm gonna assume that's done with and I can go back to looking for a job with a half decent company. 

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4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

As a graduate trying to get into the workforce I have to say right now its a nightmare, 1000s of applications per job at all levels, will it get better/easier?

Depends on the field.

On one of the jobs I posted above we have had 70 ish CV's.  Over half from outside of UK.

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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17 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

As a graduate trying to get into the workforce I have to say right now its a nightmare, 1000s of applications per job at all levels, will it get better/easier?

My son changed his 3yr BSc into a 4yr MSc so he graduates next yr not this

Only thing i can say is don't be tempted into thinking volume is the key, better to apply for 10 roles you know you can and want to do with tailored applications than apply to 1000 with the same generic one - there are no prizes for being "your cv is good but other applicants were closer to our requirements" 250 times.

Be aware large organisations (especially on big graduate campaigns) will be using some form of auto sifting software on the bulk applications, make sure your cv mirrors the language on the advert and do not assume knowledge as "obvious"

Many years ago i sent a guy for a Unix Pre-sales consultant job and was amazed he did not get an immediate interview - 2 weeks later i got a call from the line manager desperate for candidates (i wasnt allowed to ring him), i asked him and he had not seen the cv. It turned out HR had a new HR administrator, her job was to take cv's off the fax (shos how long ago it was) and check against criteria for each role only forwarding to line manager if they passed a certain score.  She has not known the table on the front page of his cv showing all the different versions of HP-UX, DG-UX, Irix, Solaris/SunOS, AIX he had worked on referred to Unix and so she literally binned it - by that point he had an offer on the table so that company missed out.  The software is now doing the job of that HR Admin so ensure if the ad says "needs in depth Unix" your cv says it rather than assuming the reader will know Irix was the Silicon Graphics version of Unix etc etc - 

This can also be used in reverse - if you do not have skill X which is asked for but you know you have something similar there is nothing wrong with putting "i have experience of Y which is similar to X" that will still be picked up by an auto sifter as having X in it and likely passed to the next phase where there is a chance of a human reading it

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On 03/02/2021 at 17:39, Tommygilf said:

As a graduate trying to get into the workforce I have to say right now its a nightmare, 1000s of applications per job at all levels, will it get better/easier?

What is your field?

It is always horrible, but now is harder than normal, not least as people are not in the office and disruption of Covid and brexit.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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8 hours ago, SSoutherner said:

Be aware large organisations (especially on big graduate campaigns) will be using some form of auto sifting software on the bulk applications, make sure your cv mirrors the language on the advert and do not assume knowledge as "obvious"

Tweak your CV (especially) and covering letter (where required) to include exact phrases for any requirement mentioned in the job advert - that can help with the auto-sifting. Then research how the software interprets the layout of a CV, as it can take information and put it in the wrong place in its own system.

Edited by Futtocks

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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20 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

What is your field?

It is always horrible, but now is harder than normal, not least as people are not in the office and disruption of Covid and brexit.

Of course, if it is a "working from home" job, as many more are since last March, that does drastically expand your geographical spread when it comes to looking for employers.

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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And as I've now done a few interviews..... if you put something on your CV, be prepared to answer a question on it.....

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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16 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

And as I've now done a few interviews..... if you put something on your CV, be prepared to answer a question on it.....

 Absolutely. Even if they don't ask in the interview, you'll most likely get found out quickly if you get the job on false pretences. And then you'll be labelled as a bit of a Boris in the eyes of all your colleagues, assuming you keep the job.

Edited by Futtocks

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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1 hour ago, Futtocks said:

Of course, if it is a "working from home" job, as many more are since last March, that does drastically expand your geographical spread when it comes to looking for employers.

except a lot are "currently work from home" and employers will be looking for people reaosnably local still

 

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