Bob8 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 17 hours ago, DEANO said: Can't believe this is a debate on crowds. .... The thread is called 'Catalans Crowds'. Did that not give you a clue? "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 54 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said: Not sure it is, at Wakefield we seem to pull roughly the same ultra loyal support good or bad. I admit we are yet to have a sustained run of success since the late 1970's but I'm not sure the difference in crowds would be massive. For me a decent Trinity side will average about 5 - 6k a match A trophy winning team maybe 7-8k Add an extra 1k on to both figures for a revamped BV. What were Wakefields crowds in the seasons immediately prior to SL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 2 hours ago, JonM said: Their 2016 turnover was 11 million Euros. They're comfortably one of the two biggest RL clubs in the northern hemisphere by revenue. That they find themselves in this position is their own fault; if they do go down, they should still be able to spend the full salary cap without much of a financial stretch. I don't dispute that being in this position is all of their own making. All I'm saying is you can't compare them going down to say HKR. The costs to a relegated Catalans compared to an English team are vastly different. Here's hoping they can keep a full time squad together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonM Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 35 minutes ago, bobbruce said: All I'm saying is you can't compare them going down to say HKR. The costs to a relegated Catalans compared to an English team are vastly different. Here's hoping they can keep a full time squad together. Their annual income is more than double that of HKR, more than 10 times some of the other championship clubs. Clearly that is going to take a dive *if* they go down, but I'd still expect them to be comfortably able to afford a full time squad. The France-based players likely have fewer alternative options than Hull KR players did in terms of getting picked up elsewhere; the overseas players are mostly the ones who created the mess in the first place. The difficulty is that of competing with Toronto and bottom half SL clubs on the pitch, not so much a financial one. Anybody got an credible source for the statement that Toulouse are funding away travel for other championship clubs (or that Catalans would have to do the same?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonM Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Spidey said: What were Wakefields crowds in the seasons immediately prior to SL? They averaged around the 2000 mark in the 1997 and 1998 seasons, winning promotion, with 1500 being about the lowest crowd I can see in those seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Bob8 said: The thread is called 'Catalans Crowds'. Did that not give you a clue? Read the whole paragraph sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, DEANO said: Read the whole paragraph I did. I was not impressed by your argument. Super League is a commercial vehicle to raise the profile of the game and to raise revenue from sponsors and media. That is what helps fund the amateur game and the future of the sport. If you want it all determined on the pitch, we should stick to the amateur game (I largely do). Once clubs are businesses, they have to earn their way as a business. But, you will have noticed, that the tread is entitled Catalans Crowds. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, Bob8 said: I did. I was not impressed by your argument. Super League is a commercial vehicle to raise the profile of the game and to raise revenue from sponsors and media. That is what helps fund the amateur game and the future of the sport. If you want it all determined on the pitch, we should stick to the amateur game (I largely do). Once clubs are businesses, they have to earn their way as a business. But, you will have noticed, that the tread is entitled Catalans Crowds. I did notice thanks. Your argument is keep well supported teams up regardless of their capability lol sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Just now, DEANO said: I did notice thanks. Your argument is keep well supported teams up regardless of their capability lol No. It is not. Have you noticed the title of the thread? I suggest you try RLFans "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 On 9/27/2017 at 8:02 PM, Flagedgetouch said: It's much more difficult to 'bounce back' under the current system though. Before you pretty much just had to win the grand final against another championship club (I must apologise but that day at Warrington in 2006 is still my best moment from 25 years of following Hull KR!) but now you need to win at least 2 games against super league opposition (well until 2019 if rumours are to be believed) licensing will never work in Rugby League because the clubs run the sport not the governing body (the exact opposite of the what is needed in a franchise sport) and because the game isn't awash with rich chairmen to prop up clubs and buy success. Some form of promotion and relegation will continue, just hopefully in a less convoluted and unwieldy fashion than that which we currently have - after all, who wants to try and plan for and gain commercial revenue from; 7 extra late season games at incredibly short notice. (Exciting as the qualifiers are; whoever thought it was a good idea needs a HIA!) Since Saturday the best system has been on my mind, I honestly don't know what is best overall. I like you have been through the joy and the heartbreak of promotion and relegation and think the game misses something when that is gone. For the clubs usually placed in the lower reaches of the league these events can be enough to change the monotony of losing to the bigger clubs. Anyway, rather than post on here and get myself wrapped up in circles I outlined my thoughts in a blog (my first for 5 years!) and warning it is long because surprise suprise it's a complicated issue! A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 39 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said: Since Saturday the best system has been on my mind, I honestly don't know what is best overall. I like you have been through the joy and the heartbreak of promotion and relegation and think the game misses something when that is gone. For the clubs usually placed in the lower reaches of the league these events can be enough to change the monotony of losing to the bigger clubs. Anyway, rather than post on here and get myself wrapped up in circles I outlined my thoughts in a blog (my first for 5 years!) and warning it is long because surprise suprise it's a complicated issue! http://maxdecimus13.blogspot.ch/ For those who block signatures.... To give a very short reply... That 14 is a poor number for a closed shop is fair. That twenty have potential is not the same as having reasonable potential for 20 clubs. There are really about half a dozen that have decent commerical value (which is not always a reflection of the rugby league culture of other towns to the sport), and that is clearly not enough. We need to have far more clubs of great commercial value and we do not. But....I am very pessimistic. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagedgetouch Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said: Since Saturday the best system has been on my mind, I honestly don't know what is best overall. I like you have been through the joy and the heartbreak of promotion and relegation and think the game misses something when that is gone. For the clubs usually placed in the lower reaches of the league these events can be enough to change the monotony of losing to the bigger clubs. Anyway, rather than post on here and get myself wrapped up in circles I outlined my thoughts in a blog (my first for 5 years!) and warning it is long because surprise suprise it's a complicated issue! Im with you 100% there mate. I Genuinely believe you have to experience the agony to fully appreciate the ecstasy! Could you post me a link to your blog as I'd like to read it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 33 minutes ago, Bob8 said: http://maxdecimus13.blogspot.ch/ For those who block signatures.... To give a very short reply... That 14 is a poor number for a closed shop is fair. That twenty have potential is not the same as having reasonable potential for 20 clubs. There are really about half a dozen that have decent commerical value (which is not always a reflection of the rugby league culture of other towns to the sport), and that is clearly not enough. We need to have far more clubs of great commercial value and we do not. But....I am very pessimistic. Even in a long post like that there were sacrifices I had to make! The 20 clubs issue is about more than their commercial value but about fairness and strength in depth. We can't have a league of 6 clubs! There are plenty of other clubs that are interchangeable between the leagues and this is not only fair but can bring freshness to the league. Widnes, Hull KR and Leigh have all brought this when first promoted. I would also question the presumption that the closed shop strengthens the top clubs but that's for another day! A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, Flagedgetouch said: Im with you 100% there mate. I Genuinely believe you have to experience the agony to fully appreciate the ecstasy! Could you post me a link to your blog as I'd like to read it? Ta mate. It's in my signature but I appreciate some have it turned off. http://maxdecimus13.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/what-is-best-system-for-super-league.html Spoiler alert: The answer is 'it's a very difficult issue.' A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I think the biggest concern for Catalans crowds next season if they go down, is how many away fans will they get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryO Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, DoubleD said: I think the biggest concern for Catalans crowds next season if they go down, is how many away fans will they get? Do you mean from away fans, or home fans. "If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 1 minute ago, GaryO said: Do you mean from away fans, or home fans. Away fans. The Championship clubs, bar Toulouse, won't bring nearly as many. How's the club to survive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryO Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 27 minutes ago, DoubleD said: Away fans. The Championship clubs, bar Toulouse, won't bring nearly as many. How's the club to survive? Isn't the general concensus of opinion that away fans don't or shouldn't be taken into consideration? The city of Perpignan itself along with the economy's of some northern Spanish resorts will feel the pinch though. "If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayCee Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 How any change in life goes is usually affected by how we handle it. Getting discouraged and downhearted is natural, but not helpful. Make a conscious decision to meet the new circumstances head on with a belief you will come out OK and that's the likely outcome. If the Catalan club does go down a division, then a proactive response from said club will lift the fans and the new adventure begins. The challenges we face and overcome give the most satisfaction in retrospect. My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/ It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course. It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tongs ya bas Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 On 9/26/2017 at 7:35 PM, Route66 said: No reason why if relegated they can't attract similar crowds as you would expect them to challenge for the title,super league isn't the be all and end all It is for some people. They've had a dream you know. This stupid system was put in place to pacify them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tongs ya bas Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 On 9/27/2017 at 5:49 PM, DEANO said: Can't believe this is a debate on crowds. If your not good enough you go down. Simples. Otherwise just hand out the trophies to the best supported club What did you think a thread entitled 'Catalan crowds' was going to be about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 37 minutes ago, GaryO said: Isn't the general concensus of opinion that away fans don't or shouldn't be taken into consideration? The city of Perpignan itself along with the economy's of some northern Spanish resorts will feel the pinch though. Indeed. There are double standards on both sides of this. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryO Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 15 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said: It is for some people. They've had a dream you know. This stupid system was put in place to pacify them. We all dream Tongy, even your goodself, you may possibly dream of the closed shop scenario, that to me is a nightmare. "If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 56 minutes ago, GaryO said: Isn't the general concensus of opinion that away fans don't or shouldn't be taken into consideration? The city of Perpignan itself along with the economy's of some northern Spanish resorts will feel the pinch though. On the contrary, it seems a lot on here believe it to be the 'be all or end all' as to whether a club can survive...............often pointing the finger at the foreign clubs. My slightly convoluted point was that it works both ways......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tongs ya bas Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 23 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said: Not sure it is, at Wakefield we seem to pull roughly the same ultra loyal support good or bad. I admit we are yet to have a sustained run of success since the late 1970's but I'm not sure the difference in crowds would be massive. For me a decent Trinity side will average about 5 - 6k a match A trophy winning team maybe 7-8k Add an extra 1k on to both figures for a revamped BV. Abyssmal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.