The Facts

[Roughyedz]

Marwan Koukash has now relinquished control of Salford.

Corney at Latics is desperater to sell up.

 

Can anyone spot the stumbling Block here ????

[Dave Naylor]

Latics don't play rugby?

[Roughyedz]

11 minutes ago, Dave Naylor said:

Latics don't play rugby?

Welll spotted Dave. . . . . but i never asked if they did or they didnt ......

I assume you have amnesia and cant remember anyone trying to buy both clubs in the non too distant past  . .  and before you ask NO it wasnt me. . . .

 

IF ONLY . . .  i can dream cant i ??  

[roughyed34]

Yeah the stumbling block was Latics as it happens, Koucash wanted the land at BP as well as the club and Brassbank said no,you can't have the land. The end. Stop trying to fabricate some tripe that CH is somehow spoiling a deal ?. Marwan tried,Marwan failed,no fault of ORLFC.

Nothing to see here,move along.

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

Also latics in talks with another investor according to a recent announcement.

[Whitworth Yed]

If Kou'cash' was to buy another club he would be going for Bradford. They have the potential to be a big club again and they have a ground they can call home (although RFL might still own it).

Unfortunately ORLFC is too much like Salford (no assets, minimum support etc) and he has just left them even though they are in Super League.

It just aint going to happen.

I think he is probably looking to buy into either Bradford Bulls or  a NY/Dublin franchise

 

[The Baron Mk11]

He said in his statement he was leaving rugby altogether, although he did add he had a couple of big offers on the table and as a business man he had to have a look at them. Make what you will of that.

[Roughyedz]

7 hours ago, The Baron Mk11 said:

He said in his statement he was leaving rugby altogether, although he did add he had a couple of big offers on the table and as a business man he had to have a look at them. Make what you will of that.

Are you not thinking of Tony Smith ? 

Unlike others who post on here I WANT an Oldham Rugby League Team in Super League or whatever in the year 2032 is the top League in this country. I'm NOT happy with the club being a two bit club and never will be, and I have no intention of supporting ANY OTHER CLUB. .  

[cluedo]

The problem did lie with the land that BP is on and the good Dr did wish to buy both the club and land, the bigger obstacle Roughyed34 was that CH wanted in excess of £250k for ORLFC and SC & co wanted 11 million for Latics. Not hearsay or rumours but from the Dr himself at the time.

[roughyed34]

That's fine I have no problem with the figures, the fact is it didn't happen then and won't happen now for every reason stated. 250k for an RL club as such isn't crazy,11m for the Latics is dreamland. Whichever way any kind of spin is put on it, and of course Roughyedz was alluding to the problem being CH and that was the "fact" he was the sole stumbling block to a sale of both clubs to the good Dr is complete garbage. The Doc wanted Latics first and foremost and the 11m and lack of sale of the land was the major block to any deal overall. Without Latics and the ground the Docs plans of a shared ground were scuppered. I seriously doubt as a businessman that he would be worried about 250k for ORLFC when the majority of his return would be in hotels/retail around a possibly rebuilt BP. The 250k for ORLFC would have been returned massively in profit from development around the ground.

[OLD YED]

19 minutes ago, roughyed34 said:

That's fine I have no problem with the figures, the fact is it didn't happen then and won't happen now for every reason stated. 250k for an RL club as such isn't crazy,11m for the Latics is dreamland. Whichever way any kind of spin is put on it, and of course Roughyedz was alluding to the problem being CH and that was the "fact" he was the sole stumbling block to a sale of both clubs to the good Dr is complete garbage. The Doc wanted Latics first and foremost and the 11m and lack of sale of the land was the major block to any deal overall. Without Latics and the ground the Docs plans of a shared ground were scuppered. I seriously doubt as a businessman that he would be worried about 250k for ORLFC when the majority of his return would be in hotels/retail around a possibly rebuilt BP. The 250k for ORLFC would have been returned massively in profit from development around the ground.

Well im certainly NOT a fan of hamilton but i dont think he can be blamed for what happened in this regard..with the limited info i have of course.

[roughyed34]

Just as an aside to this, Norwich City sold a lease to Holiday Inn at their ground. The deal was 1.1 m and then 30% of profit from said Holiday Inn for 150 years! Looking at the figures Holiday Inn charge for a room that puts Norwich quids in for nowt. If Koucash had have got Latics and the land then this would pale into insignificance compared to what could have been made on site for the operating company,with hotels/retail on site.ie Dr K.The1m upfront would have been enough to pay for ORLFC multiple times,leave a profit and also continue a revenue stream. Therefore I feel people are just trying to take a pot shot again at CH for nothing,trying to blame CH for Latics failings is crass, it was Corney and Brassbank that busted the deal,full stop.

For the record here is what Corney said at the time.........

Corney said: "I think the issue he [Koukash] had was that he would want to move somewhere else and build a brand new stadium that would incorporate the rugby.

"That's fine, and actually that's a very good idea, but it didn't appeal to me because I've been here for 10 years. Of those 10 years, I've spent seven trying to build a new stand.

 

If the right person came along and had the interests of Oldham at heart, I would always welcome them in, but it has to be the right person.....

"The fans deserve to have a stadium where they can be proud to come. We're there, we're good to go and I'm not going to stop."

So there you go, that's the fact, having a shared stadium and the Rugby didn't "appeal" to Corney. Nothing about CH, he clearly didn't want ORLFC pezzing on his chips. I rest my case m'lud.

[roughyedspud]

Corney spent the first 3-4 years of that 10 years trying to build a new stadium and sell BP to fund it..

http://www.stadia-magazine.com/news.php?NewsID=14576

Quote

Oldham Council and English football club Oldham Athletic have unveiled regeneration plans for a new £20 million football stadium development and community facilities at a 30-acre site. Officials have been working in partnership for several weeks after the economic downturn forced the club to shelve plans to redevelop its current Boundary Park home.

“We haven’t taken the decision to leave Boundary Park lightly – it was our preferred option to redevelop it – but the credit crunch means the land value and market conditions have diminished to an extent that makes that scheme no longer economically viable,” said Simon Corney, managing director and co-owner of Oldham Athletic, which currently plays in Coca-Cola Football League 1, England’s third-tier league. “In its current state Oldham Athletic is dying. Our revenue fell 20% again last year and we’re now attracting attendances on a par with many League 2 clubs [England’s fourth-tier league]. This new vision gives us an opportunity to provide a facility that will create new revenue streams to make the club financially viable and self-sustaining, while also giving supporters a superior matchday experience.”

The new vision is to ‘marry’ two sites to become home to a new stadium with a proposed capacity of around 12,000, plus community sports facilities such as football pitches, and corporate/leisure developments. The League One club would sell its existing Boundary Park home with most of the site likely to be purchased by a private developer of small family homes. Talks are also still ongoing with the Pennine Acute Trust, which runs the Royal Oldham Hospital, which could see ‘key workers’ homes created on the current car park on Sheepfoot Lane. The capital raised would then be used to fund the new development.

“Much work remains to be done on the detail of these plans but I want to reassure local residents they will not be living next door to some monstrous and imposing facility. This will be a community stadium built along the lines of the recent models at Colchester and Shrewsbury, for example, and we look forward to working with them on this exciting scheme,” said Corney.

Subject to Cabinet approval, Oldham Athletic will next commission architects to work up more comprehensive plans. The club then expects to submit a detailed application to be considered by the borough’s Planning Committee by the end of 2009. If successful, it would then sign a 24-month conditional development agreement to undertake construction work on the land owned by Oldham Council. Upon completion, the club would then sign a long-term lease with the local authority.

Because the above plan fell through,cos of a serious fxxk up by the council,which could have seen latics take the council to court and win easily,the council offered to fund the building of the £10m north stand as under the table settlement.

 

That £11m corney wanted off koukash? Was that just for latics? Or latics and all the brass bank (land & bp)?

[roughyed34]

This was from an article in the Independent at the time Spud....

The land is clearly more significant than the club. When Marwan Koukash, owner of the Salford Red Devils rugby league club, was looking at buying Athletic, he pulled out because they would not sell him the land as part of the deal.

That implies that the 11m was just for the club with Brassbank holding the land although not 100% conclusive.

[Roughyedz]

ha ha ha. . . .  all i said was Latics are up for sale ( i believe that Corney is desperate to off load now, with a buyer all lined up with a French chap already earmarked as the New manager ) and Marwan has no club ............ those ARE the FACTS .......unless anyone knows any better that is ...... There well may be someone else besides Mr Koukash interested in buying one or even two clubs , there is an opportunity for someone .....ANYONE

[wozz]

3 hours ago, Roughyedz said:

ha ha ha. . . .  all i said was Latics are up for sale ( i believe that Corney is desperate to off load now, with a buyer all lined up with a French chap already earmarked as the New manager ) and Marwan has no club ............ those ARE the FACTS .......unless anyone knows any better that is ...... There well may be someone else besides Mr Koukash interested in buying one or even two clubs , there is an opportunity for someone .....ANYONE

Looks like Mr loadsa kash will probably go to Bradford 

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

On 29/09/2017 at 11:55 PM, roughyed34 said:

250k for an RL club as such isn't crazy,11m for the Latics is dreamland.

250k for ORLFC is crazy and it was then. Just because Latics price was more crazy doesn't mean that CH's over valuation wasn't a factor. He basically spoke to two blokes who were both crazy... and the land wasnt on offer.  Course he did one.

[roughyed34]

Why is it, oh right you expect CH to walk away for nothing? The club owes him a fortune in directors loans. Can't blame him for trying to get some of the money he has put in back! If someone owed you money that you loaned would you not want some back?

 

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

What he lent the club is between him as a director and him as an owner.

Ultimately the buyer decides the price they are willing to pay. If something doesn't represent value, no one will buy it. When you buy a house you DON'T pay the market price PLUS whatever's left on the seller's mortgage.

What businessman with half a brain is going to pay for any businees that has liabilities that are three times its assets.

With no assets other than an RFL club membership the club is worth next to nothing.

Whats the sales pitch? 'You get to pay for 20 years of my whims, gambles and mistakes and in return you get NOTHING.'

[roughyed34]

38 minutes ago, HomeOfTheTubularBandage said:

 

Whats the sales pitch? 'You get to pay for 20 years of my whims, gambles and mistakes and in return you get NOTHING.'

Conveniently forgetting the work CH has done to maintain a club to support on little money,having to put his own money in to keep us afloat and fighting the tide of apathy from some "supporters" of Oldham RLFC in which he couldn't do anything right no matter what. 

We all know he makes mistakes,what whims and what gambles are you on about? If you can do a better job get on with it and buy the club then (for nothing obviously), and see if you last 20 years of all the abuse and negativity he has faced. 

Before anyone starts saying I'm pro CH or anything like,those that know me know full well I criticise some aspects of the club and disagree with a lot of what CH does (or more to the point doesnt do).

You do get something if you buy the club....Membership of the RFL (as you pointed out) and a chance to improve the current situation. Hardly NOTHING when you get the name of ORLFC to be the custodian of either.

 

[tandle]

confirmed by the land registry at 4-04 pm 2-10-2017

whitebank stadium title absolute proprietor Oldham borough council p.o.box 33 west st. Oldham .

purchased from Molson coors brewing company 137 high st. burton on trent.

amount paid £99.999 on the 19-9-2017. that's who owns whitebank end of.

[tandle]

got the purchase 2017 wrong it was 2011 sorry

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

You're coveniently forgetting the work he has done to alienate supporters and investors.

What do you think the membership is worth? Serious question. What is the value of it?

You know my position. It hasn't changed. The type of people who have made hundreds of thousands don't buy lame ducks. A supporters Trust should be the custodian of the name.

I would buy the club for nothing. I'd give it to a Trust to run, following due diligence and appropriate liaison with the RFL. Then I'd join the Trust.

[roughyed34]

At the minute RFL membership is worth zero tbh, they can't even say what next season's formats are and with the uncertainty around the restructure\licensing the ownership etc of ORLFC may be irrelevant in the next few seasons because there won't be an ORLFC or any club the RFL don't want in existence if the RFL joke shop continue in the direction they seem to be heading. 

I agree a supporters trust is the future as I have said previously. As I also said it needs a forum/open meeting of supporters so fans can hear all the details of how a supporters trust works,how the investment is made,how the trust raise enough funds initially,how the supporter run club operates at a business level etc ,from people who know far more about it than I certainly do at present. 

It's great in principle but no-one seems to want to call a meeting to see the interest in forming a trust (Rugby Oldham hold the key),they are apparently the supporters trust for Oldham RL generally, but also seem very reluctant to gauge interest in aforesaid "Supporter led club". 

As far as I know you can only have one Trust according to supporters direct that includes a club and that is RO. Unfortunately they seem to do a bit with approaching CH and getting nowhere,then go into hiding. Rugby Oldham claim to be for the benefit of RL both Pro and amateur in Oldham,but don't back it up with any action towards the pro side of things imo. 

If people are serious about a trust led club then the group taking the lead should be RO,canvassing opinion not just from their own members but all ORLFC fans, without them the trust led club is doomed.

[thecrab]

R34 I'm sure RO attended meetings with CH and HOTB but it all died a death. CH holds all the cards, without his say so, RO and every interested supporter aren't gonna get a trust led club.  The only way to push for this is vote with your feet which I think some of those that were involved in the discussions have done.

A trust led club is the answer, there's just one massive hurdle in the way, CH.