The Facts

[roughyed34]

RO need to be more visible to the fans as the "Trust" for Oldham. Instead of voting with feet,maybe a groundswell of support for RO would help to show that people want a trust led club. Yes CH would have to change his stance, but if RO got the fans who go now onboard as well as the support they have now,they would be in a better position possibly. Voting with your feet is disrespectful to the players who do the best for ORLFC. IMHO it would make a difference if everyone could be united in an effort to back RO as a trust and then approach CH. It's up to RO as a trust to mobilise every fan and convince them that the trust run club is the answer. They don't seem to do much, that's why I said they need to lead an open meeting to gauge support and form a plan with all supporters on board. Then maybe,just maybe CH might give it more of a chance.

[Sapere aude]

I could not agree more.

[geoffcooke]

Simple question: why are you not a member of Rugby Oldham?

[roughyed34]

Why should I be Geoff? I have no idea what RO do, what their plans are.I only see the odd snippet when the talks with CH happened,that they didn't want to buy the club but would help with improvements etc,the info on the web from RO was massively outdated and now the site is being updated. I ain't gonna join something I know nothing about.

If there are no outlets of communication on forums,social media,internet etc, how can people who are not members know what's going on at RO?

If the profile of RO was raised then maybe people like me who are in an info black hole may buy into what RO do.

PS. Its not a criticism of RO or its members, I'm sure RO do plenty of work but when it comes to info the organisation is lacking imho.

[Sapere aude]

I'm also very curious......it seems like the first rule of RO is we don't talk about it! 

[Whitworth Yed]

Maybe they should have an advert every month  in the programme telling us what has been happening and how we can join/help. 

At the very least they need to get their website sorted out.

[geoffcooke]

Gentlemen, the RO website has been operational for a decade and could have been referenced at any time until the last few months.

Criticism that it might have been outdated explains why this is being addressed now with a new site under construction.

roughyed 34,sapere aude, whitworth yed  RO would love to 'buy' ORLFC: I'd be interested in where you think we could acquire 500k to do so.  You are obviously aware that we have talked several times with CH regarding RO participation and as regulars on this forum will know these make no progress because of the financial position. Would you buy the club with the debts (in whatever form) it has?

I asked the question about membership because the easiest way to know of our activities is to be a member although I have posted on here several times when something relevant has cropped up like our offer in 2011 to fund terracing at Whitebank (never taken up). Anyway our members' newsletters are eventually published on our website and will appear again when the new site goes live.

We have several times debated calling a public meeting but that would have no purpose without a meaningful proposal. I fear the only time that would happen would be if the club went bust. After all no-one else other than RO has expressed any interest in buying in to ORLFC.

We have no axe to grind with, or animosity toward, CH who does a fine job in many respects but needs help. Some volunteers do an amazing job providing help at one level but to achieve more requires active involvement at executive level. That can only happen because CH wants it: RO cannot force help on an unwilling owner.

As regards a larger membership and more active Trust that is the reason for wanting people like you to join. After 12 years some of us are getting stale and new blood is needed to shake up our operation. £10pa gets you membership and the chance to become a Board member. We have a Board vacancy or you can have my place with pleasure.

Sorry to bang on but fans can't expect someone else always to do the hard lifting: at least HOTTB, eclectic sheep, clifford and roughyed spud tried in 2015 and look where that got them. 

 

[roughyed34]

Very fair and measured post Geoff and thanks for the details.

As for money, I have no idea, I have questioned the people on here who champion the supporters led trust idea about how they would raise the funds and have yet to hear a proposal,its all if members pay this etc but no firm proposal to raise funds for a supporter led trust to buy ORLFC and have a working capital to see it through,hence why I posted in the first place about RO being the trust and may have some idea how this would/could work financially.

Personally from reading posts on here there seems to be a definite interest in a supporter led club and I would hope that RO could be the organisation we all buy into with a view to progress being made.

No one is expecting someone else to do the hard lifting, I just feel if we were all united to a common organisation ie- RO then individuals wouldn't need to approach CH and ,everyone who backed RO would have a voice. Its always better to do these things through an organisation with all fans on board.

I will definitely look into joining RO, I think its potentially the future of the club. Is there a membership form you could email me?

As for a board member, I'm not so sure i'd be the right man for the job but perhaps when there is a meeting of RO I could attend and find out more about what commitment,ideas,direction RO are going etc and maybe then put a bid in to join as a board member if that was agreeable.

Once again, thanks for the reply.

 

 

 

[clifford]

I have no axe to grind with CH but I fear for the club 

I mean there is no one  CH is accountable to and as such when people approach him with a view to investigating in the club he is not prepared to release any control of the club. 

2015 I wanted the club to be taken over by a supporters trust and Geoff kindly helped in this end but the rug was pulled for whatever reason and no further meetings were scheduled that despite requests being made 

RO do a fantastic job promoting amateur rugby within the borough from schoolboys to open age. Indeed they are the custodian of the standard cup 

I do think that the days of 2500 - 5000 attendances are long gone, sadly but with the right stewardship and the right people and promotion crowds of 1250 - 1500 could be reached 

Look at amateur rugby in Oldham, the clubs that have gone over the last 30 years is massive, the list of the of my head

Heyside eagles 

Shaw

New hey / Milnrow 

Watershedding wanderers

Seddon panthers 

Salem

Chadderton 

British Aerospace 

That's a lot of men not playing with no interest in the sport 

The club has been mismanaged and there has been false dawns

The only fact that has been a constant is CH. He does take a lot of flack but he has missed a trick by not employing RO as stakeholders and employing a club liason officer. 

The liason officer would be available to see to fans on match days to answer questions and take things to the board and during the week. Thus giving an approachable face between the club and the fans. 

I have noticed that the club drip feeds news, take the signings yes I understand why 

Rant over 

[Roughyedz]

The only way that anyone else on this planet apart from CH will EVER get any input or involvement in ORLFC is if they ;

1) someone has half a Million as Geoff said above 

2) something happens to CH that forces him to sell

3) enough creditors take ORLFC to the court and have them wound up

To be honest i cant see any of the above happening in the next 20 years , and suppose thats why 1,000 or so Oldhamers follow Wigan, Bradford, Leeds, Saints and even Salford etc etc etc or more like go shopping with their wives

SO WE ARE STUCK WITH WHAT WE HAVE GOT

 

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

4 hours ago, Roughyedz said:

SO WE ARE STUCK WITH WHAT WE HAVE GOT

Nope. You can force his hand easily. You are in charge, you have the power.

A total boycott of merchandise and season tickets would be enough. If not just a partial boycott of the the first two or three games of the season would cripple cash flow and force him to the table. Just make sure you have a united Trust by that time.

[Whitworth Yed]

Is it possible to have the RO application form added as an attachment to this thread?

 

[eclecticsheep]

The question is would anyone want the Albatross around their neck, The whole game in the lower leagues is in imbalance and the superleague are going to let us wither on the vine

ORLFC are at the bottom step of semi professional rl after over 20 years of Chris` tenure

For me He can keep it

and I will continue as HOTB posted just above

 

[clifford]

In 2015 ch was forced to listen as the gates were 300 having just played Coventry 3 times league league Cup and challenge Cup. 

Then the team started to win and the crowds increased and promotion was won. 

Talks dismissed 

Change is good but not just for the sake of change 

If change is achieved then it has to be for the whole of the game in Oldham. To survive the pro team needs to engage with the rugby league community of Oldham and at present it does not 

 

[Sapere aude]

[roughyed34]

9 hours ago, HomeOfTheTubularBandage said:

Nope. You can force his hand easily. You are in charge, you have the power.

A total boycott of merchandise and season tickets would be enough. If not just a partial boycott of the the first two or three games of the season would cripple cash flow and force him to the table. Just make sure you have a united Trust by that time.

The trust don't have the money as Geoff said, so I shall ask again. If your boycott plan worked and forced CH to listen then where is the money coming from to invest and "help" the club with Trust involvement? Force him to the table with the sum total of nothing? Don't make me laugh.Possibly in that situation the club would fold and disappear. To gain a place on the board of ORLFC (whoever that may be) has to offer something.

All boycott this and do that but never any input in how this mythical money will appear to gain ownership/partial ownership by the Trust.

As for boycotting the games,that's what half of the people on here do anyway,the club still keeps going, I doubt any of the faithful few will buy that idea.For us who go its disrespectful to the lads pulling on the shirt,as well as hurting them financially to even consider it so that's a definite no from me.

Goes round in circles this argument, until anyone RO,fans,whoever has any money and a firm plan to approach CH with ,its a totally useless argument and the status quo will remain ,you will get no joy out of CH by boycotting or dreaming up ideas it will only make him more stubborn (if that's even possible) It has to be a firm offer financially and an organisation that can pull together and offer something to RL in Oldham. That's RO as the organisation, finance could be raised by events,sponsorship,subscription,debenture etc with a view to buying the club in the future.

 

[geoffcooke]

I'm very pleased with the way this discussion has progressed: a lot of sincere comments have been made and I hope when the time is right (who knows?) we can all pull together.

I still think there are private investors who could come on board but two other possibilities are crowdfunding and a community shares issue. For details of the latter you will need to go to Supporters Direct website.

That's the positive side: the negative side is that when I wrote to John Dutton and Karen Moorhouse at the RFL when it was known at Red Hall that CH was willing to talk with RO I did not have the courtesy of a reply.

[roughyed34]

Unfortunately doesn't surprise me with the RFL Geoff. Don't know if you missed it but is there a form or something we could download or be emailed in regards to joining RO? Thanks

[clifford]

There is a will, it pains me the way rugby league is dieing in the district the number of amateur clubs which have gone is extremely depressing for me. 

The number of people going to games is depressing. Yes I did boycott the club in 2016 did it make a difference no, the plus side is I have an extremely good friend in 34 as a result of my boycott and it is down to him I came back. 

Am I please yes, but sad to be relegated 

Still pre season training will start next month 

The RL still have not confirmed the structure and therefore ch gets grief for no ticket prices or location for the games 

Ch therefore cant budget for 2018

 

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

3 hours ago, roughyed34 said:

The trust don't have the money as Geoff said, so I shall ask again. If your boycott plan worked and forced CH to listen then where is the money coming from to invest and "help" the club with Trust involvement? Force him to the table with the sum total of nothing? Don't make me laugh.Possibly in that situation the club would fold and disappear. To gain a place on the board of ORLFC (whoever that may be) has to offer something.

All boycott this and do that but never any input in how this mythical money will appear to gain ownership/partial ownership by the Trust.

As for boycotting the games,that's what half of the people on here do anyway,the club still keeps going, I doubt any of the faithful few will buy that idea.For us who go its disrespectful to the lads pulling on the shirt,as well as hurting them financially to even consider it so that's a definite no from me.

Goes round in circles this argument, until anyone RO,fans,whoever has any money and a firm plan to approach CH with ,its a totally useless argument and the status quo will remain ,you will get no joy out of CH by boycotting or dreaming up ideas it will only make him more stubborn (if that's even possible) It has to be a firm offer financially and an organisation that can pull together and offer something to RL in Oldham. That's RO as the organisation, finance could be raised by events,sponsorship,subscription,debenture etc with a view to buying the club in the future.

 

Mythical money? 

I have put on here at least three times how the money could and should be raised but you choose to ignore it so you can say 'All talk and no plan'.

The plan is you put your money in the Trust FIRST. Then it's there to do the deal and if he wont deal, you take it back. A simple contract could be drawn up by RO. They have the requisite governance and assurance systems and registrations to act as the fund holder.

I have outlined on numerous occasions sample membership schemes - i.e amounts that could be charged - which, if all fans contributed, could raise up to 100k per year.

If you add that to the private investors that Geoff mentioned and you have a part fan-owned consortium with a war chest that should be enough money to buy some or all of the club. With a guaranteed future annual income from the membershio scheme.

[clifford]

The problem is that because Oldham rlfc is a private company owned solely by one man, if he does not want to talk or sell he doesn't have too. 

Many supporters don't like him some put up with him but the RL love him and he is respected within the suits. 

Whether or not I like him is irrelevant I just wish he would open dialogue up with rugby Oldham. At that point RO could say to the rugby folk of Oldham we need xyz to buy the club and this is how we would like to get the cash and thus bring into play hottb ideas

[roughyed34]

I agree that is the way HOTTB, but from some posters previously ,some of the figures have been pie in the sky,and it is all talk because there is no clear plan at all that has been formally proposed by any party.

Say for instance the trust needed £500,000 in the first instance then a subscription\membership on a monthly\yearly basis. What time scale would you suggest for raising the initial funding to buy into the club? Would a partial trust owned club work with say 25% of the club when clearly CH would still have 75%? 

If it was to ever come to fruition I would suggest that because of people's issues with CH a partial stake in the club would not be enough,and wouldn't be until CH was totally removed from it.

As I have said the Trust led club is a great idea,but if it happens it has to be all or nothing or I fear people will not buy into it for the reason above.

[tandle]

say ch went and the club was taken over by supporters and  we are in champ 1. I did a costing for next season on 500 gates of15 home games at £15 admission it worked out over 30 games at £5.600 per game to pay 21 players 2 coaches taxes and insurances rent and overheads. do you think that amount is enough to run a club each season or in your opinion what is the amount needed ?.  

[LittleHarryB]

The problem with the club is very simple. It is a private Limited Company with one shareholder being CH.  It his not being run as a limited company but more like a sole trader.

Any monies that a person puts into  a Limited Company with themselves as the sole director his is up to them and any debts incurred is because of their management alone.

If a ltd company  cannot stand on its own without being propped up by a director and which has shown continuous debts of around the 200K mark and having no assets to speak of raises the question.

 Why would anyone want to invest in it ?

He makes all the decisions  financial and otherwise  and the fact that he has continued to do so for nigh on 20 years with this amount of complete control is entirely his decision. and the way he wants it.

If the debts are directors loans then why should anyone want to take them over when the money for them will go to the person whose management has created them in the first place.

 

 

 

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

40 minutes ago, tandle said:

say ch went and the club was taken over by supporters and  we are in champ 1. I did a costing for next season on 500 gates of15 home games at £15 admission it worked out over 30 games at £5.600 per game to pay 21 players 2 coaches taxes and insurances rent and overheads. do you think that amount is enough to run a club each season or in your opinion what is the amount needed ?.  

I have never proposed that membership fees would be the only money.

I have always proposed a commercial manager be appointed. This role would handle all day to day income generation work - advertising, sponsorship, crowd funding, funding bids (sport england, lottery, rfl development, council heritage fund and anything else). Trusts can bid for these monies and/or have charitable status. Plus there's the money from the rfl/tv deal and income from merchandise, food and drink sales, gala evenings/events etc.

The club manages to exist now WITHOUT membership money. This would be an EXTRA 100k a year.

Do you think CH puts an extra 100k a year in? I doubt it.