Trojan Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 On the thread "people on TV we can't stand" someone offered professional northerners. This set me wondering who qualifies. Michael Parkinson perhaps? There's a lot of dislike for Geoff Boycott, who's pretty northern, but not David (Bumble) Lloyd, who's very northern. What about Alan Bennett, who makes no secret of the fact that he was born and brought up in Armley. But then some are born "northern" and some have their northerness thrust upon them. Morecambe and Wise say, who in their first TV series were forced out of character, and as a result a TV critic memorably said "television, the box in which Morecambe and Wise are buried" it was only when they resorted to their northern variety theatre act that they hit the big time. Others, big stars of variety such as Frank Randle (Mr Blackpool) wasn't allowed by the theatre management company to stray south of Nottingham, on the grounds that no one would be able to understand him. The same applies to Bobby Thompson (The Little Waster) who on the same grounds, wasn't allowed south of Middlesbrough. As someone brought up in part in the Yorkshire coalfield, I find his "pitmatic" Durham coalfield language intelligible, and certainly his descriptions of life there all too understandable. So why are we so quick to condemn these northern stereotypes? Someone's put them in a box labelled "North Country" in the way that Londoners and others don't seem to be classified. I suppose the same applies to our sport. Sad really. “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Northerners who Uncle Tom their northern-ness would be the ones. So I don't think Boycott really counts. Parky definitely does. Titchmarsh, who called his 'auto'biography, "Nobbut a lad", does as well. Bumble is on the border of it but he so obviously loves Lancashire and lives and breathes the place that I don't think he has the cynicism required to be playing it up. There are so few actual northern voices in the mainstream (aside from sporting) media though that it's not so obvious who else would be there. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 See.... some on here don't like Ian McMillan..... a darfield lad and ex wath grammar school. And Ian Clayton.... Fev lad. I've met both, and neither "tried" to be yorkshiremen.... they just are. I suppose I've been in mcmillan's company the most and know much more about him. But I've always found him to be a really nice bloke. A little eccentric but a thoroughly caring fella with absolutely no.malice about him. He is just how he appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Robin Evans said: See.... some on here don't like Ian McMillan..... a darfield lad and ex wath grammar school. And Ian Clayton.... Fev lad. I've met both, and neither "tried" to be yorkshiremen.... they just are. I suppose I've been in mcmillan's company the most and know much more about him. But I've always found him to be a really nice bloke. A little eccentric but a thoroughly caring fella with absolutely no.malice about him. He is just how he appears. I think McMillan's issue is that in his world he is surrounded by people dripping with RP accents so he stands out a helluva lot more than he would otherwise and that can come across as an affectation, which I never actually think it is. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, gingerjon said: I think McMillan's issue is that in his world he is surrounded by people dripping with RP accents so he stands out a helluva lot more than he would otherwise and that can come across as an affectation, which I never actually think it is. He genuinely is just like he appears. Nice bloke. Does a lot of volunteer work in the museum at darfield. He lived on tempest avenue just across the road from andrea barnes.... who you don't know..... but that's another story.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tongs ya bas Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Grrrrrrrrr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 29 minutes ago, Robin Evans said: See.... some on here don't like Ian McMillan..... a darfield lad and ex wath grammar school. And Ian Clayton.... Fev lad. I've met both, and neither "tried" to be yorkshiremen.... they just are. I suppose I've been in mcmillan's company the most and know much more about him. But I've always found him to be a really nice bloke. A little eccentric but a thoroughly caring fella with absolutely no.malice about him. He is just how he appears. I met Ian Clayton a couple of years ago at a craft fair in Ossett. I got talking to him about guess what? I had to buy a copy of his book to get away “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 24 minutes ago, Robin Evans said: See.... some on here don't like Ian McMillan..... a darfield lad and ex wath grammar school. And Ian Clayton.... Fev lad. I've met both, and neither "tried" to be yorkshiremen.... they just are. I suppose I've been in mcmillan's company the most and know much more about him. But I've always found him to be a really nice bloke. A little eccentric but a thoroughly caring fella with absolutely no.malice about him. He is just how he appears. Apparently someone has written an opera in the Barnsley twang. There was an excerpt on Look North the other night. "La Donna e Mobile" translated as "Lasses is brussen!" Now there's a Yorkshire word! “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber Avenger Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 34 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Northerners who Uncle Tom their northern-ness would be the ones. So I don't think Boycott really counts. Parky definitely does. Titchmarsh, who called his 'auto'biography, "Nobbut a lad", does as well. Bumble is on the border of it but he so obviously loves Lancashire and lives and breathes the place that I don't think he has the cynicism required to be playing it up. There are so few actual northern voices in the mainstream (aside from sporting) media though that it's not so obvious who else would be there. Got it in one. Before I clicked on the thread Parky and Titchmarsh came to mind. Northerners who play up to it when they suit them. I've heard Peter Kay cited as a more modern example, but for me doesn't quite fit the description as again I think he is just like that. Jeremy Clarkson is another who plays up to it when it comes up in suits, but then he isn't exactly a professional northerner. In short, I can't define it. You just know SQL Honours Play off mini league winner - 2002. Bronze Medalist - 2003. Big Split Group Winner - 2006. Minor Stupidship - 2005, 2006. Cup Silver Medalist - 2008, 2009 CHAMPION - 2005, 2009, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tongs ya bas Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Plenty of people from the north become well known, well known for their talent. My favourite modern poet is Tony Harrison, from Hunslet. He wrote some very stark poetry about the area. Harrison is known for the quality of his writing, not where he comes from. To me that's one of the elements that differentiates professional northerners from people of real talent. The mayor of Featherstone once told me that Clayton is a fine ambassador for the town. I didn't say anything because we are friends from childhood, and I didn't want to make anything of it. But I thought that actually the town was an ambassador for him. As for not bugging up his northern_ness oh please! When I hear these people coming out with some of the stuff they come out with, I have to leave the room. I worked closely with one of the people mentioned on this thread for some years. It left it's Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, Trojan said: Apparently someone has written an opera in the Barnsley twang. There was an excerpt on Look North the other night. "La Donna e Mobile" translated as "Lasses is brussen!" Now there's a Yorkshire word! It is, indeed, the aforementioned MacMillan. Technically very difficult to do as Opera relies on long vowels and Yorkshire vowels are flat and short. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tongs ya bas Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, Trojan said: Apparently someone has written an opera in the Barnsley twang. There was an excerpt on Look North the other night. "La Donna e Mobile" translated as "Lasses is brussen!" Now there's a Yorkshire word! For crying out loud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Northerners have a tendency for inverse snobbery - anyone who is successful must automatically be "above their station". Northern jealousy - best jealousy in't'world. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Professional Northerners Just another handy stereotype for jokes and dismissal as unimportant and not as good as the real thing , is all! 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marklaspalmas Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Good thread. As a Northerner, I think it's interesting to look at Northern media figures and work out which of then happen to be Northern, and which of them play up to a stereotype. Perhaps it was necessary to do the latter at a certain point in TV history just to get anywhere. Difficult to believe it would be needed now to advance your career. FWIW my professional Northerners: Eddie Waring, Parky, Dicke Bird, Fred Truman, Cannon & Ball, Bumble possibly. Not Bennett, Boycott or Peter Kaye. Stuart MacConie? Dont know enough about him. https://www.fevarchive.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 MacConie..... good muso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, marklaspalmas said: Stuart MacConie? Dont know enough about him. He's an interesting one, isn't he? I think there's more credit than debit overall. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyXIII Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 hours ago, tim2 said: It is, indeed, the aforementioned MacMillan. Technically very difficult to do as Opera relies on long vowels and Yorkshire vowels are flat and short. Northern vowels are flat and short? I've always considered them long. Try saying "ran" and "run". My students (okay, they're Greek, so not experts, but they do watch films and TV programs in English) asked me this just on Monday. They weren't sure if they understood me correctly because I pronounce "u" as a broad Northerner, but they were expecting it to be more like "ran". As for Professional Northerners, I can't help but think that Paddy McGuiness exaggerates his accent. That makes him a PN in my book. Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society Founder (and, so far, only) member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark S Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Most famous geordies always sound much more geordy than anyone I have ever met from there. They wear their accent like a badge of honour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Trojan said: Apparently someone has written an opera in the Barnsley twang. There was an excerpt on Look North the other night. "La Donna e Mobile" translated as "Lasses is brussen!" Now there's a Yorkshire word! Only one performance scheduled - and that semi-staged and in Salford:http://www.thearsonistsopera.com/ They've been working on it since 2015. Shame they're struggling for funding to take it further. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 35 minutes ago, Mark S said: Most famous geordies always sound much more geordy than anyone I have ever met from there. They wear their accent like a badge of honour. Having lived in Newcastle, that was not my experience. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tongs ya bas Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 37 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Only one performance scheduled - and that semi-staged and in Salford:http://www.thearsonistsopera.com/ They've been working on it since 2015. Shame they're struggling for funding to take it further. Oh please no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 There are also plenty of Professional Scots, Irish, Welsh and Cockneys in the public eye. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 3 hours ago, tonyXIII said: Northern vowels are flat and short? I've always considered them long. Try saying "ran" and "run". My students (okay, they're Greek, so not experts, but they do watch films and TV programs in English) asked me this just on Monday. They weren't sure if they understood me correctly because I pronounce "u" as a broad Northerner, but they were expecting it to be more like "ran". As for Professional Northerners, I can't help but think that Paddy McGuiness exaggerates his accent. That makes him a PN in my book. I didn't say Northern Vowels. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyXIII Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, tim2 said: I didn't say Northern Vowels. I know you didn't. I broadened the range because, although I have lived in Yorkshire, it was briefly Sheffield, then York and finally Whitby, which are not the same as West Riding Yorkshire, I was concerned that there might be a twist in the West Riding patois that changed the vowels to short instead of long. I still think Northern vowels are flat and broad, rather then sharp and short. Not that it matters, really, as long as my students can eventually understand me make out what I'm saying. Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society Founder (and, so far, only) member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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