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jim_57

Continuing the trend of crazy ideas.. New Caledonia

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Belgrade? New York? Villenueve?.. (2 years ago) Toronto? What next?

Thought I'd repost an idea I saw on another forum about ideas on how the French can improve. This one was from a French poster and the idea came from left field but might not be as crazy as it sounds in this day and age.

A 'French' team in the QLD Cup, based out of New Caledonia.

Anybody think there is merit in the idea?

Of course it would be 100% dependant on sponsor backing so very unlikely. It also would probably have to be based out of Brisbane and play in blocks like the Wolfpack.

Essentially such a team could be built on talented Elite players willing to make the move and a few locals from both New Caledonia and Australia for rookies and verterans respectively.

I know it's probably the most ridiculous thing posted in a while but stranger things may have happened.

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Thank you Jim for giving resonance to my idea

No need to play in blocks : 

Auckland are in NSW Cup

Port-Moresby in Qld Cup

these cities are farther from australia than the first french city : Nouméa.

There's a league culture in New Caledonia I heard that some union rugby clubs in the suburbs of Nouméa played league recently, after a disagreement with their federation.
This is just my idea but I think everyone could be a winner with the creation of this Kanak team !
The territory of new caledonia could gain great benefits in economic terms, development, communication. this could strengthen economic ties between this province, Australia and all neighboring islands. The Australian fans could turn into tourists as is already the case with the English fans who come to Perpignan. Local partners might be interested (Aircalin for example), but also Australian or French. The players could come from France because many young players could be interested in the experience but also New Caledonia, Wallis Vanuatu etc.: 

Edited by fcl

www.fcl13.fr FCL XIII - Lezignan Corbieres Rugby League

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22 minutes ago, jim_57 said:

Belgrade? New York? Villenueve?.. (2 years ago) Toronto? What next?

Thought I'd repost an idea I saw on another forum about ideas on how the French can improve. This one was from a French poster and the idea came from left field but might not be as crazy as it sounds in this day and age.

A 'French' team in the QLD Cup, based out of New Caledonia.

Anybody think there is merit in the idea?

Of course it would be 100% dependant on sponsor backing so very unlikely. It also would probably have to be based out of Brisbane and play in blocks like the Wolfpack.

Essentially such a team could be built on talented Elite players willing to make the move and a few locals from both New Caledonia and Australia for rookies and verterans respectively.

I know it's probably the most ridiculous thing posted in a while but stranger things may have happened.

Interesting... and very plausible..

 

Forgive me, don't want to start a new thread but can I add a European one that would cost some money but something I have been thinking for a while.. hear me out..

Georgia.. 

RU is growing strongly there, they are quite dominant at the level below the 6 nations to he point they really need to seriously consider p&r as they are arguably better than Italy and possibly Scotland depending on the way the wind is blowing that year. They are constantly over looked for this step up etc.. they have some physical specimens and some good skill levels and they love the hits.. 

the RFL or whoever would need to spend some cash but if the iRB don't "show them some love" they could potentially convert lock stock to League with a little incentive? 

Edited by RP London

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New Caledonia and Georgia are both countries who very briefly played RL.

The clubs that switched in NC switched back after maybe two years at the most. And Georgia was booted out of the RLWC qualifiers a few years back and that was the end of the game there. I think there were doubts about whether Georgian RL was really RL anyway. 

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33 minutes ago, fcl said:

Thank you Jim for giving resonance to my idea

No need to play in blocks : 

Auckland are in NSW Cup

Port-Moresby in Qld Cup

these cities are farther from australia than the first french city : Nouméa.

There's a league culture in New Caledonia I heard that some union rugby clubs in the suburbs of Nouméa played league recently, after a disagreement with their federation.
This is just my idea but I think everyone could be a winner with the creation of this Kanak team !
The territory of new caledonia could gain great benefits in economic terms, development, communication. this could strengthen economic ties between this province, Australia and all neighboring islands. The Australian fans could turn into tourists as is already the case with the English fans who come to Perpignan. Local partners might be interested (Aircalin for example), but also Australian or French. The players could come from France because many young players could be interested in the experience but also New Caledonia, Wallis Vanuatu etc.: 

Apologies, didn't realise you were on here as well.

Like I said it was very left field but has some merits when you think about it. Key obviously would be getting the finacnes behind it. Player wise I think it could be a missing link between Elite 1 level and struggling for game time at Catalans reserves for young French players. Of course would be hoping to unearth a few gems in NC as well.

Edited by jim_57

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44 minutes ago, RP London said:

Interesting... and very plausible..

 

Forgive me, don't want to start a new thread but can I add a European one that would cost some money but something I have been thinking for a while.. hear me out..

Georgia.. 

RU is growing strongly there, they are quite dominant at the level below the 6 nations to he point they really need to seriously consider p&r as they are arguably better than Italy and possibly Scotland depending on the way the wind is blowing that year. They are constantly over looked for this step up etc.. they have some physical specimens and some good skill levels and they love the hits.. 

the RFL or whoever would need to spend some cash but if the iRB don't "show them some love" they could potentially convert lock stock to League with a little incentive? 

Georgia probably wouldn’t be the best fit for League and there is still a fair bit of momentum behind the Union set up. Probably the majority of their pro players are props in the French Top 14 and all their teams have the speciality of a bulldozing scrum. Their backs by comparison are very much lacking (but they have produced a few gems in the last few U20 tournaments).

 

Also things might be moving in the right direction for their national side as they have finally managed to secure a test match against Italy, to see how they match up and this might lead to 6N entry. Italy will be a tough team though for them as they have a more balanced squad selection and the two fully-pro Italian sides have finally got their acts together this year. I’d also like to point out as a Scot, that Scotland did beat Georgia by a fair margin last autumn.

 

World Rugby are investing heavily in Georgia having recently hosted the U20 World Championships and a local multi-millionaire has invested heavily in new training facilities. The are not a country Unions authorities are forgetting about so it might be better for League to look at other opportunities.

Edited by Snooping Unionite

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Interesting. I guess a lot of people don't realise that "France" is actually closer to Australia than New Zealand is. There is a very good stadium in Noumea so maybe an NRL trial match there just to test the waters - for Sydney clubs it's not much different from flying to Cairns or Darwin for a game.

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Its 2 hrs 45 minutes from Sydney

2 Hours and 5 minutes from Brisbane.

I have been there many times, not sure how Rugby League would go.

Its a different place.

They have a vote for independence this time next year.


Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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18 minutes ago, Snooping Unionite said:

Georgia probably wouldn’t be the best fit for League and there is still a fair bit of momentum behind the Union set up. Probably the majority of their pro players are props in the French Top 14 and all their teams have the speciality of a bulldozing scrum. Their backs by comparison are very much lacking (but they have produced a few gems in the last few U20 tournaments).

 

Also things might be moving in the right direction for their national side as they have finally managed to secure a test match against Italy, to see how they match up and this might lead to 6N entry. Italy will be a tough team though for them as they have a more balanced squad selection and the two fully-pro Italian sides have finally got their acts together this year. I’d also like to point out as a Scot, that Scotland did beat Georgia by a fair margin last autumn.

 

World Rugby are investing heavily in Georgia having recently hosted the U20 World Championships and a local multi-millionaire has invested heavily in new training facilities. The are not a country Unions authorities are forgetting about so it might be better for League to look at other opportunities.

Agree with you on all that hence it would take some money..   think 6 nations is tricky as p&r means a bad season for Scotland or wales or even England means they spend a year playing Germany etc... cannot see the turkeys voting for Christmas.. 

yes they are more united to union now but recon they could convert (some would stay in union and qualify for France) but they have some good athletic big lads around... would take some work granted. 

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2 hours ago, RP London said:

Interesting... and very plausible..

 

Forgive me, don't want to start a new thread but can I add a European one that would cost some money but something I have been thinking for a while.. hear me out..

Georgia.. 

the RFL or whoever would need to spend some cash but if the iRB don't "show them some love" they could potentially convert lock stock to League with a little incentive? 

No. This suggestion is pretty ridiculous to be honest. Last year spent a week in Georgia at their union headquarters. They are supported by 'World Rugby' quite well, with funding for several performance staff, ref manager etc etc being put in place. 

The Georgians however use union as a career opportunity. The ultimate goal of almost every Georgian player is to play professionally in France. The national coach (NZer) was quite open about this. The national squad were training every day that I was there, and none of their France based players were there. The guys from the union explained that only a handful of those players would make the test team as nearly all internationals play in France.

If players did something wrong, the coach would shout 'That's why you are not playing in France'.

I was at a union game in France recently, Fédérale 3 (ie level 5 or 6) and there were 2 Georgians playing for 1 of the teams. I asked a spectator if they worked, and he confirmed they were purely playing rugby union.

This forum has some creative suggestions, but a lot of them unfortunately are utter fantasy - with zero understanding of the actual facts.

Rugby League cannot even organise Lebanon to play World Cup games in Sydney. It should concentrate on getting the basics right (2 games kicking off together at a WC FFS!!!) before talking about 'converting' unions 7th European nation. 

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Something that had occurred to me as well. My only question, if the idea is to have players from mainland France developing in NC is whether there is a sufficient player pool in France? If Catalans and Toulouse are already taking the cream on Elite 1, and Auvignon and Villneueve wanting to join them in the English structure, would that competition be adversely impacted by a NC team?

 

Maybe League 1 becomes less reliant on French players by adding an Italian and Spanish team, with the French lads concentrated at a couple less clubs (maybe freed up by Auvignon and Villneueve)?

 

Maybe the approach should be youngsters heading out to NC for a year, adding to a few Aussie players. Spend a year all living together like the PNG players do, building a right of passage approach which develops their skills as well as a sense of camaraderie that benefits the French team in future, and the following years the best players become 1st team players at catalan or TO, or return to League 1. 

 

For me New Caledonia would have been a great place for France to play their World Cup games. Better atmosphere there than a 3rd full Canberra. Maybe something to consider for a future Southern Hemisphere World Cup.

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I know at least a dozen of French Trezists who have already tried the adventure of playing in Australia (Vignau, Braconnier, Bouzinac, Mickalezyk, Nzoungou for last example).

I'm sure some Catalans and Toulouse players would be ready to enjoy the New Caledonian sunshine to play footy against qld teams. 

 

But also players not retained by the Dragons who could have a second chance.

 

 

 

 

 

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www.fcl13.fr FCL XIII - Lezignan Corbieres Rugby League

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19 minutes ago, Celt said:

No. This suggestion is pretty ridiculous to be honest. Last year spent a week in Georgia at their union headquarters. They are supported by 'World Rugby' quite well, with funding for several performance staff, ref manager etc etc being put in place. 

The Georgians however use union as a career opportunity. The ultimate goal of almost every Georgian player is to play professionally in France. The national coach (NZer) was quite open about this. The national squad were training every day that I was there, and none of their France based players were there. The guys from the union explained that only a handful of those players would make the test team as nearly all internationals play in France.

If players did something wrong, the coach would shout 'That's why you are not playing in France'.

I was at a union game in France recently, Fédérale 3 (ie level 5 or 6) and there were 2 Georgians playing for 1 of the teams. I asked a spectator if they worked, and he confirmed they were purely playing rugby union.

This forum has some creative suggestions, but a lot of them unfortunately are utter fantasy - with zero understanding of the actual facts.

Rugby League cannot even organise Lebanon to play World Cup games in Sydney. It should concentrate on getting the basics right (2 games kicking off together at a WC FFS!!!) before talking about 'converting' unions 7th European nation. 

That's interesting to know..  as you say we don't all have understandings of what is going on on the ground in places we have never been to so it's interesting for people like yourself to actually give us that insight.. yes with that information it would be best to leave alone but when what you see is a nation being seemingly left in the cold it seems an opportunity. 

Thank you

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"

New Caledonia

 

New Caledonia has a population of 268,767 but it is a part of France who have been playing Rugby League since 1934. A franchise representing New Caledonia is also a franchise that represents France, more so even considering most of its players would be French Rugby League juniors. New Caledonia would be a gateway for young French Rugby League players into the NRL.

 

Stade Numa-Daly Magenta stadium holds 16 000 which isn't huge but is ok since the average NRL crowd during regular competition is 15,787. Should they develop a successful franchise an extra 4 000 seats could be added possibly down the track if need be. Could they pack out that stadium on a regular basis? Well there are not a lot of other sports available there, so the addition of a NRL side should create interest from the locals. If memberships could be sold smartly allowing children in for cheaper prices then there is no reason they couldn't pack out the stadium for home games if marketed well.

 

The RLIF could use New Caledonia as a home base for French Rugby League teams when they tour down south. They could play other pacific nations such as Samoa, Tonga, Fiji and PNG there before they head of to Australia or New Zealand, or even take part in pacific nations competitions since France is technically part of the pacific. France could even wear a New Caledonia jersey when taking part in such events. French players involved in the NRL will give France a stronger pool of players to pick from into their national team as well as players from the Catalans Dragons making the French national team much stronger. A stronger French national team will benefit England who need a strong local national team to play against on a regular basis and also give Australia and New Zealand another option for internationals.

 

The NRL would also benefit. Suddenly there would be a reason for people in France to take an interest in the NRL since they are represented, opening the door for merchandise and sponsors. To make it work I'd pick a group of young French players and play them out of Sydney in the under 20s competition for a few years first giving them a pool of players to create a team from. Id also allow any French player in the NRL to be salary cap free up until the inclusion of the New Caledonia franchise, meaning any Rugby League or Union player a NRL side would consider giving a contract too wouldn't effect their current 25 players they have under their current club salary cap. So if a club had some extra money they could add a French players to their club to see how they go for a few years and add some depth. When the New Caledonian franchise started it would be hoped those players would transfer to that club or they must be included in the current NRL clubs salary cap from then onwards.  

 

I think the inclusion of a New Caledonian franchise would best be in 2018. In 2017 France could play some world cup games there to wet the appetite of the locals making the timing for the new franchise the next year ideal. In saying that organising a new NRL franchise might take a few years longer. Id try them out for 4 or 5 years at least, have them owned and run by the NRL, the French Rugby League or both. Measure the benefits they bring to the NRL and French Rugby League before considering if they should continue."   

 

Obviously I agree 100% with the OPs post. 

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Celt, England are playing Lebanon in Sydney on Sat! I assume you mean their France game, and I would agree that should have been a no brainer. NCT are paying the RLIF to host games there though, unlike the NSW gov, hence very few games there.

 

Very intereting point on Georgia, re an international squad training despite no chance of getting in the team. For me comparisons can be drawn with the likes of Italian, Irish and Lebanese home grown players, many more of whom get to play outside the World Cup finals, but then don’t make it to the finals due to heritage players. Like the Georgian RU players, they are inspired by the dream, the love of the game and potential career advancement in the sport, not the immediate opoutunity of making a World Cup, albeit these league players are part-time.

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16 minutes ago, B rad said:

 

"

New Caledonia

 

New Caledonia has a population of 268,767 but it is a part of France who have been playing Rugby League since 1934. A franchise representing New Caledonia is also a franchise that represents France, more so even considering most of its players would be French Rugby League juniors. New Caledonia would be a gateway for young French Rugby League players into the NRL.

 

Stade Numa-Daly Magenta stadium holds 16 000 which isn't huge but is ok since the average NRL crowd during regular competition is 15,787. Should they develop a successful franchise an extra 4 000 seats could be added possibly down the track if need be. Could they pack out that stadium on a regular basis? Well there are not a lot of other sports available there, so the addition of a NRL side should create interest from the locals. If memberships could be sold smartly allowing children in for cheaper prices then there is no reason they couldn't pack out the stadium for home games if marketed well.

 

The RLIF could use New Caledonia as a home base for French Rugby League teams when they tour down south. They could play other pacific nations such as Samoa, Tonga, Fiji and PNG there before they head of to Australia or New Zealand, or even take part in pacific nations competitions since France is technically part of the pacific. France could even wear a New Caledonia jersey when taking part in such events. French players involved in the NRL will give France a stronger pool of players to pick from into their national team as well as players from the Catalans Dragons making the French national team much stronger. A stronger French national team will benefit England who need a strong local national team to play against on a regular basis and also give Australia and New Zealand another option for internationals.

 

The NRL would also benefit. Suddenly there would be a reason for people in France to take an interest in the NRL since they are represented, opening the door for merchandise and sponsors. To make it work I'd pick a group of young French players and play them out of Sydney in the under 20s competition for a few years first giving them a pool of players to create a team from. Id also allow any French player in the NRL to be salary cap free up until the inclusion of the New Caledonia franchise, meaning any Rugby League or Union player a NRL side would consider giving a contract too wouldn't effect their current 25 players they have under their current club salary cap. So if a club had some extra money they could add a French players to their club to see how they go for a few years and add some depth. When the New Caledonian franchise started it would be hoped those players would transfer to that club or they must be included in the current NRL clubs salary cap from then onwards.  

 

I think the inclusion of a New Caledonian franchise would best be in 2018. In 2017 France could play some world cup games there to wet the appetite of the locals making the timing for the new franchise the next year ideal. In saying that organising a new NRL franchise might take a few years longer. Id try them out for 4 or 5 years at least, have them owned and run by the NRL, the French Rugby League or both. Measure the benefits they bring to the NRL and French Rugby League before considering if they should continue."   

 

Obviously I agree 100% with the OPs post. 

B rad interesting you suggest straight to the NRL as opposed to NSW/ QLD Cup 1st. Maybe an end game. The latter for me would be an interesting complement to Catalan and Toulouse. An NRL team would be a direct competitor for top French players. However, on the pro side, one of the reasons that PNG are often suggested as a non-starter in the NRL is the volatility of their currency against AUD (although i am not convinced by that as they would be funded primarily by their share of the AUD broadcasting deal). However, as New Caledonia’s home currency is the Euro, far less exchange volatility, so one less obstacle.

 

As per that old thread, Hawaii is fascinating to me as a NRL expansion location. Imagine Jared Hayne turning out for them? He had real visibility in the NFL and could put RL on the map for a Hawaii team. Would probably come to late for him though. Hawaii in the NRL as well as American teams in the English structure could be huge for American RL. 

Edited by JoneslessBishop

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3 hours ago, Allora said:

Its 2 hrs 45 minutes from Sydney

2 Hours and 5 minutes from Brisbane.

I have been there many times, not sure how Rugby League would go.

Its a different place.

They have a vote for independence this time next year.

Do they have a team of financial  backers?

Do they have a good management team on board to run and market a club?

Do they had a large and properous population?

Do they have a suitable venue?

If the answer to all four questions is "yes", then they would be a success.  I believe they have four to tick off before then.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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I think we know the answer to 2 and potentially 4 is yes Bob, that is why it is an interesting discussion. In terms of backers, the French government and French local authorities are generally more generous than British ones. Interesting that there is an independence referendum. If France wants to retain NC, would be a good way to support NC and improve its relationship with its neighbours and this show they are engaged with New Caledonia. Something maybe for the French RL authorities to potentially capitalize on.

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1 hour ago, JoneslessBishop said:

Celt, England are playing Lebanon in Sydney on Sat! I assume you mean their France game, and I would agree that should have been a no brainer. NCT are paying the RLIF to host games there though, unlike the NSW gov, hence very few games there.

 

Very intereting point on Georgia, re an international squad training despite no chance of getting in the team. For me comparisons can be drawn with the likes of Italian, Irish and Lebanese home grown players, many more of whom get to play outside the World Cup finals, but then don’t make it to the finals due to heritage players. Like the Georgian RU players, they are inspired by the dream, the love of the game and potential career advancement in the sport, not the immediate opoutunity of making a World Cup, albeit these league players are part-time.

aye - i meant the france game of course.  Glad to see them playing in Sydney next up - but it is crazy not to base them there.


Rugby League: Alive and Handling

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4 hours ago, JoneslessBishop said:

B rad interesting you suggest straight to the NRL as opposed to NSW/ QLD Cup 1st. Maybe an end game. The latter for me would be an interesting complement to Catalan and Toulouse. An NRL team would be a direct competitor for top French players. However, on the pro side, one of the reasons that PNG are often suggested as a non-starter in the NRL is the volatility of their currency against AUD (although i am not convinced by that as they would be funded primarily by their share of the AUD broadcasting deal). However, as New Caledonia’s home currency is the Euro, far less exchange volatility, so one less obstacle.

 

As per that old thread, Hawaii is fascinating to me as a NRL expansion location. Imagine Jared Hayne turning out for them? He had real visibility in the NFL and could put RL on the map for a Hawaii team. Would probably come to late for him though. Hawaii in the NRL as well as American teams in the English structure could be huge for American RL. 

Yeah that thread was awhile a go now. These days Id hope for QLD or NSW cup side and see where they can build form there. 

There is French Polynesia as well who could add a few players to the Caledonian squad. Obviously French Polynesians are Polynesian (the same race as Maoris Tongans and Samoans) while New Caledonians are Melanesians (the same race as PNG and Fiji). Just from a racial point of view imagine adding a few big strong Polynesians to the French pack and some big speedy Melanesians to the backline. Of course they would have to be very good players, but if you look at the success of Australia and New Zealand a part of that is that they have access to these islander players that make them so dominant in both Rugby Codes. 

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7 hours ago, fcl said:

I know at least a dozen of French Trezists who have already tried the adventure of playing in Australia (Vignau, Braconnier, Bouzinac, Mickalezyk, Nzoungou for last example).

I'm sure some Catalans and Toulouse players would be ready to enjoy the New Caledonian sunshine to play footy against qld teams. 

 

But also players not retained by the Dragons who could have a second chance.

 

 

 

 

 

The QLD Cup is a very high standard. Would they have enough decent players to fill a team? 

And then there’s the issue of finances, player pathways, local interest etc.

Another issue is that New Caledonia has a very low profile in Australia. So low profile is seems almost deliberate as I struggle to believe how well known Fiji, Tonga, Samoa etc are in comparison.

I suspect huge numbers of “everyday” Australians aren’t aware it’s even connected to France.

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3 hours ago, Copa said:

The QLD Cup is a very high standard. Would they have enough decent players to fill a team? 

And then there’s the issue of finances, player pathways, local interest etc.

Another issue is that New Caledonia has a very low profile in Australia. So low profile is seems almost deliberate as I struggle to believe how well known Fiji, Tonga, Samoa etc are in comparison.

I suspect huge numbers of “everyday” Australians aren’t aware it’s even connected to France.

Such an idea would obviously have a lot of boxes to tick as would any club but it is an interesting idea.

Perhaps a simpler option to start would be to partner with a current club to play a couple games in NC and take on a few French players.

As for interest I would imagine a semi-pro team would be the first and only of it's kind in New Caledonia, not sure what the general vibe is there in regards to Rugby League but I'm sure a high level team would generate a bit of interest.

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Good points B rad. A New Caledonia team not only develops current French players but opens up a player pool, as would Tahiti where the team (France Pacifique?) could play the odd game. So in the medium term, not a just a draw on the current French player pool, which will also come under a bit of pressure from any Montreal team who I would imagine would greatly benefit from some high quality players who speak French to build their fan base.

 

French performing admirably against Oz at the moment but definitely out-sized and could do with a bit of extra Polynesian/ Melanesian bouef!

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19 minutes ago, JoneslessBishop said:

Good points B rad. A New Caledonia team not only develops current French players but opens up a player pool, as would Tahiti where the team (France Pacifique?) could play the odd game. So in the medium term, not a just a draw on the current French player pool, which will also come under a bit of pressure from any Montreal team who I would imagine would greatly benefit from some high quality players who speak French to build their fan base.

 

French performing admirably against Oz at the moment but definitely out-sized and could do with a bit of extra Polynesian/ Melanesian bouef!

They could definitely do with some size.  

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