It's that time.......again! HMRC

[roughyed34]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/42141027

Another winding up order dismissed. How many more before the inevitable happens? Worrying signs before the season has even begun.

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

7 minutes ago, roughyed34 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/42141027

Another winding up order dismissed. How many more before the inevitable happens? Worrying signs before the season has even begun.

Honestly, there will be a thousand more and nothing will come of it. Don't assume it's just oldham and CH,  it's a lot of other RL clubs and FA clubs and a multitude of other businesses as well. It appears to be a common practice.  Pay at the last minute. 

[moorside roughyed]

I'm neither worried or surprised tbh.As the above post said it probably happens all the time in lower league sport,with money being a problem most of the time.I've got to admit to leaving my season ticket renewal to the last minute. But I do agree with 34 on his point of how many winding up orders before it all goes bump.As long as the players turn out so will I.

[R0ughyeds]

[tandle]

Oldham rlfc accounts.

go to companies house beta.

type in Oldham rlfc 1997 ltd.

all the accounts submitted from 1998 till 2915 are there, monies owed to shareholders and creditors  its all there. anyway went down to whitebank  saterday got talking to a avro official who told me they pay Oldham council a peppercoin rent for the ground and the bar/club.all service charges/business rates are down to avros and avros only. on the  upgrade of the pitch this was paid by Oldham council, the rest of the upgrade to the stadium was paid by avro at a cost of over a £100.000 pounds.they are also putting plans in to build a covered area on the whitebank rd side to cover one third of the pitch.   

[roughyed1064]

there will come a time when this club will not be able to get out of this hole with the tax man.

[Connor mcb]

I think you all are making something of nothing here.

[moorside roughyed]

4 hours ago, R0ughyeds said:

Tragic,init!

[moorside roughyed]

8 hours ago, Monkey Lover said:

There is a queue 

I bet there is.

[thecrab]

16 hours ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

Honestly, there will be a thousand more and nothing will come of it. Don't assume it's just oldham and CH,  it's a lot of other RL clubs and FA clubs and a multitude of other businesses as well. It appears to be a common practice.  Pay at the last minute. 

Agree there's more and I get we can probably only pay at the last minute.

But why are we always in the main press about it?  When did you last see other RL clubs on BBC website more than once for paying up late? 

[herbie]

The way the club is run is a total embarrassment. The supporters have be ground down to accept mediocrity. 

Would any other club be celebrating 20 years of failure.? There's even a 20 years logo appeared on the website for goodness sake.

The club survives despite of and not because of Hamilton. It has indeed survived against all odds! No other club would have survived this level of incompetent management.

Have a look at what Rochdale and Swinton are doing with supporter led clubs. Employing chief execs,commercial managers and running foundations that try to involve the community.  

If only eh?

[thecrab]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

The way the club is run is a total embarrassment. The supporters have be ground down to accept mediocrity. 

Would any other club be celebrating 20 years of failure.? There's even a 20 years logo appeared on the website for goodness sake.

The club survives despite of and not because of Hamilton. It has indeed survived against all odds! No other club would have survived this level of incompetent management.

Have a look at what Rochdale and Swinton are doing with supporter led clubs. Employing chief execs,commercial managers and running foundations that try to involve the community.  

If only eh?

and we can do absolutely nothing about it unless someone turns up with a big stash of dough ☹☹

[Yed17]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

The way the club is run is a total embarrassment. The supporters have be ground down to accept mediocrity. 

Would any other club be celebrating 20 years of failure.? There's even a 20 years logo appeared on the website for goodness sake.

The club survives despite of and not because of Hamilton. It has indeed survived against all odds! No other club would have survived this level of incompetent management.

Have a look at what Rochdale and Swinton are doing with supporter led clubs. Employing chief execs,commercial managers and running foundations that try to involve the community.  

If only eh?

Get on with it then! 

[Roughyedz]

19 hours ago, moorside roughyed said:

I'm neither worried or surprised tbh.As the above post said it probably happens all the time in lower league sport,with money being a problem most of the time.I've got to admit to leaving my season ticket renewal to the last minute. But I do agree with 34 on his point of how many winding up orders before it all goes bump.As long as the players turn out so will I.

What P****** me off about all this is that i have no choice my tax is deducted at source even before i see the pay ...........i hate tax dodgers and cheaters

[Bleep1673]

My cousin was involved in the Football HMRC raids this summer I hope he's not getting involved in RL, because he isn't a fan

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

3 hours ago, Roughyedz said:

What P****** me off about all this is that i have no choice my tax is deducted at source even before i see the pay ...........i hate tax dodgers and cheaters

Erm...... who's dodging tax and cheating?  How do you suggest businesses should pay the various forms of tax, VAT, Corporation,  employment etc! ? You can't pay them at source because no one knows how much it is until at least after a full year of doing business. And because not everyone pays their bills on time you may not have the money that the tax man wants. 

[tandle]

vat is paid quarterly paye is paid monthly no excuses. these monies are not yours they are the hmrc,s end of.

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

1 hour ago, tandle said:

vat is paid quarterly paye is paid monthly no excuses. these monies are not yours they are the hmrc,s end of.

Yeah dead simple. Especially when some goods and items are exempt or zero rated and then the tax man tells you one thing and then changes their mind. Then when you have to pay the vat for goods /services sold and you haven't received that money yet. 

[tandle]

once you submit a invoice with vat included it does not matter if you don't get paid for three months. if your invoice date is in a earlier vat quarter you pay  the vat even if you have not been paid. in the eyes of the hmrc you not getting paid is your problem not theirs. Oldham rlfc does not have a cash flow problem ch we will receive £70.000 from the rfc he will have season ticket money paid up front supporters will pay cash at the gate before the match I lot of people would yearn for a business like that so whats going wrong he is not waiting for money like a lot of businesses do.

[moorside roughyed]

7 hours ago, Roughyedz said:

What P****** me off about all this is that i have no choice my tax is deducted at source even before i see the pay ...........i hate tax dodgers and cheaters

So do I mate.But the way I see it is that I support the lads who take to the pitch for our club.I supported the club before Chris Hamilton and I shall no doubt support it after.We can't alter the way the club is run but we can support the backroom staff and players who are trying to compete on a very minimal budget.If I thought about the politics too much I might as well go and do something else.I turn up,enjoy my rugby league fix,hope for a win and go home either chuffed or disappointed,that's it.At least we haven't been raided by HMRC have we,well not yet. Haha.

[Bedford Roughyed]

6 hours ago, tandle said:

once you submit a invoice with vat included it does not matter if you don't get paid for three months. if your invoice date is in a earlier vat quarter you pay  the vat even if you have not been paid. in the eyes of the hmrc you not getting paid is your problem not theirs. Oldham rlfc does not have a cash flow problem ch we will receive £70.000 from the rfc he will have season ticket money paid up front supporters will pay cash at the gate before the match I lot of people would yearn for a business like that so whats going wrong he is not waiting for money like a lot of businesses do.

Sorry?  The whole concept of a sports club is a cash flow problem.  You have seasons for a start?  You have home and away fixtures, etc.  Its one big cash flow problem.  

[graham fisher]

You won't be the first club and you certainly won't be the last who have cash flow problems,whether be tax demands of any other outstanding debt. As our chairman say's there are still clubs living beyond their means,1or 2 been in the championship. Someone put a earlier comment regarding employing a chief executive and a commercial manager etc, can you afford to employ such staff? Or more to the point can they?

[moorside roughyed]

I bet most championship and league1 clubs have some kind of financial problems at some point.One of the main problems in my eyes is crowd numbers or should I say lack of them.The amount of clubs attracting crowds of less than a thousand is a concern with some clubs attracting 4to5 hundred makes you wonder how are they financially viable. There doesn't seem to be the appetite for the game like there used to be.

[thecrab]

The point tandle is making is the club is cash positive before the season starts with the RFL payment and season ticket payments up front not to mention sponsors etc.  Every club has revenue from home fixtures to balance the away fixtures.  During the off season the majority if not all players aren't being paid by the club. 

With regards to VAT payments, these are submitted quarterly based off what has been invoiced during that quarter.  Failure to pay results in warnings, fines and ultimately winding up orders.  

So failure to pay to the level we have is dodging tax and embarrassing to the club and its supporters.

[Bedford Roughyed]

50 minutes ago, thecrab said:

The point tandle is making is the club is cash positive before the season starts with the RFL payment and season ticket payments up front not to mention sponsors etc.  Every club has revenue from home fixtures to balance the away fixtures.  During the off season the majority if not all players aren't being paid by the club. 

The RFL money is in instalments I think.  Lots of upfront costs, such as kit.  You have 2 months of training expenses, facilities, wages, etc.  I think cash positive is more like scrapping by until the first fixture.