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England v Kiwis in Denver 2018


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Just now, RP London said:

I seriously doubt someone investing $1m is going to do nothing to help get people in though..

 

This is the same bloke that is wanting to start a pro league there right? An Aussie who has just as much knowledge on the American sporting landscape as any non-American 

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Just now, Jace said:

This is the same bloke that is wanting to start a pro league there right? An Aussie who has just as much knowledge on the American sporting landscape as any non-American 

Yes but that doesnt mean he doesnt know how to market a game.. if he is willing to invest $1m into it he is hardly going to sit on his hands and just hope it works is he?

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Just now, Jace said:

Again that may work in England but why would it work in America? Why would the NFL help rugby league when they're appealing to the same type of sports fan? 

Well it was one example.

Lewis Hamilton drive a NASCAR to promote F1 in the USA. David Beckham kick NFL field goals to promote soccer. These are off the top of my head, Im sure a bit of research would dig up hundreds of examples.

Promoting to the local fans using a well known medium is a great tried and tested method.

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6 minutes ago, Bramstein said:

So at what point are we allowed to say the Kiwi support is good enough to justify a test against them in NZ? You seem to think 12,000 isn't and now appear to be suggesting that just under 16,000 isn't either. No comment on the fact that the final drew over 25,000? Must have been all the Australians eh ;)

 

Hold on, don't put words into my mouth. I have no qualms about playing a test in New Zealand and have been arguing for quite some time that New Zealand need to play more home tests. However your argument against Denver was that there is all this support for New Zealand and this makes a good crowd is guaranteed when history and facts shows this is not the case. If New Zealand v England regularly drew 30k+ and was a financial windfall it would be a tougher decision. History shows that this is not the case and they usually draw a few thousand either side of 15k. This at times when New Zealand were far stronger and in better shape than they are now too.

If Denver doesn't come off, fine play the game in New Zealand. However if the offer is genuine and both England and New Zealand can make some serious money, guaranteed, then they should take it.

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8 minutes ago, RP London said:

Yes but that doesnt mean he doesnt know how to market a game.. if he is willing to invest $1m into it he is hardly going to sit on his hands and just hope it works is he?

He could do all the marketing he likes, if he doesn't understand the way things work there then forget about it

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45 minutes ago, Jace said:

The game is hardly supported outside of Auckland. What was the crowd attendance at the Kiwis vs Fiji quarter final?

12,000, as it was for Kiwis vs Scotland in Christchurch, and as it was for two Kangaroos home games.

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13 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Well it was one example.

Lewis Hamilton drive a NASCAR to promote F1 in the USA. David Beckham kick NFL field goals to promote soccer. These are off the top of my head, Im sure a bit of research would dig up hundreds of examples.

Promoting to the local fans using a well known medium is a great tried and tested method.

Two people who are well known around the globe, more so in the case of David Beckham. Great example......

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5 minutes ago, Jace said:

He could do all the marketing he likes, if he doesn't understand the way things work there then forget about it

why does he have to understand it... surely thats what you employ a marketing/advertising agency to do?

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12 minutes ago, Damien said:

Hold on, don't put words into my mouth. I have no qualms about playing a test in New Zealand and have been arguing for quite some time that New Zealand need to play more home tests. However your argument against Denver was that there is all this support for New Zealand and this makes a good crowd is guaranteed when history and facts shows this is not the case. If New Zealand v England regularly drew 30k+ and was a financial windfall it would be a tougher decision. History shows that this is not the case and they usually draw a few thousand either side of 15k. This at times when New Zealand were far stronger and in better shape than they are now too.

If Denver doesn't come off, fine play the game in New Zealand. However if the offer is genuine and both England and New Zealand can make some serious money, guaranteed, then they should take it.

Were we akways going to be playing NZ and only now this venue is mentioned? I didnt think our midseason test had been confirmed.. at which point this isnt an either or

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Just now, RP London said:

why does he have to understand it... surely thats what you employ a marketing/advertising agency to do?

Really? You don't think it's paramount that he has some knowledge on it? I mean this is the same person who wants to start a league there

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8 minutes ago, Damien said:

Hold on, don't put words into my mouth. I have no qualms about playing a test in New Zealand and have been arguing for quite some time that New Zealand need to play more home tests. However your argument against Denver was that there is all this support for New Zealand and this makes a good crowd is guaranteed when history and facts shows this is not the case. If New Zealand v England regularly drew 30k+ and was a financial windfall it would be a tougher decision. History shows that this is not the case and they usually draw a few thousand either side of 15k. This at times when New Zealand were far stronger and in better shape than they are now too.

If Denver doesn't come off, fine play the game in New Zealand. However if the offer is genuine and both England and New Zealand can make some serious money, guaranteed, then they should take it.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. You said we should play in Denver on the basis that Kiwi support is poor. When I put forward examples of Kiwi support being OK you responded in a way that suggest you think the support isn't OK. I therefore challenged you to state at what point does the support become OK to justify playing them in NZ over Denver.

I find the idea that Denver will immediately draw a large crowd hopelessly assumptive based on what Jace has said above. It just strikes me as odd to say NZ v England has to take place in Denver and only if this fails should we consider NZ.

Opinions, eh?

 

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2 minutes ago, Jace said:

Really? You don't think it's paramount that he has some knowledge on it? I mean this is the same person who wants to start a league there

He needs knowledge of the game etc but the intricacies of marketing the game no I dont.. you get in someone with knowledge of the landscape and you work with them.. its how it works in any business when you launch something new.. you have the knowledge of the product but you get people in to help with the knowledge of the market.

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41 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Get some of the Polynesian Denver Broncos players meeting the Kiwi's on ESPN in the lead up for the game. 

 

19 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Of course it is a bit of dreaming, this is RL afterall and calm down mate this is a discussion board.

What will getting a team on a national broadcaster meeting players from the biggest sporting organisation in the world do!? hmmmm

I must be dreaming when I see NFL players wearing Chelsea tops visiting PL training grounds on Sky to promote the NFL London games.

I doubt that ESPN would even broadcast the game, let alone that an NFL club would assist a sport that from their perspective is tiny and insignificant, unlike them hooking up with EPL teams there'd be nothing in it for them like there is for Chelsea in hooking up with them and vice versa...

You could work around the NFL and the Broncos (and other NFL clubs) though and contact their players directly for some kind of promotion, and we as a sport have the means to do something like that too if the organiser are willing to get the right people involved, for example I'm sure that Rusty and Hugh Jackman would be willing to at least help in someway if not actually do something substantial like attend the game and do promotional work if their schedules allow it, they both have strong pull in America and connections in Hollywood that could be exploited, and believe it or not, but Beau Ryan is reasonably good friends with the Rock and Junior Vaivai (ex-Rabbiohs player who's been dogged by injury, he also represented the USA at the WC this year) is the Rocks cousin, so there might be potential to work something out there as well, or at the very least get some contacts who can help.

So there's heaps of potential to do big things in the USA, if the right people are willing to call in some favours, however you never get something for nothing, Rusty for example would probably want Souths involved in some way if he was going to help.

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5 minutes ago, RP London said:

He needs knowledge of the game etc but the intricacies of marketing the game no I dont.. you get in someone with knowledge of the landscape and you work with them.. its how it works in any business when you launch something new.. you have the knowledge of the product but you get people in to help with the knowledge of the market.

If it was that easy then a whole host of other sports would have done just that. Rugby league doesn't even have a foundation let alone much interest in Denver yet he chose it as the destination. It looks like an idea that is filled with blind hope more than anything else

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17 minutes ago, Jace said:

He could do all the marketing he likes, if he doesn't understand the way things work there then forget about it

Well to be fair he has worked with ESPN before (when he was doing his MLB thing) and does have connections with sports personalities in America, so if it is Jason Moore organising it then he has the means to at least get some stuff organised with ESPN.

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13 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

 

I doubt that ESPN would even broadcast the game, let alone that an NFL club would assist a sport that from their perspective is tiny and insignificant, unlike them hooking up with EPL teams there'd be nothing in it for them like there is for Chelsea in hooking up with them and vice versa...

You could work around the NFL and the Broncos (and other NFL clubs) though and contact their players directly for some kind of promotion, and we as a sport have the means to do something like that too if the organiser are willing to get the right people involved, for example I'm sure that Rusty and Hugh Jackman would be willing to at least help in someway if not actually do something substantial like attend the game and do promotional work if their schedules allow it, they both have strong pull in America and connections in Hollywood that could be exploited, and believe it or not, but Beau Ryan is reasonably good friends with the Rock and Junior Vaivai (ex-Rabbiohs player who's been dogged by injury, he also represented the USA at the WC this year) is the Rocks cousin, so there might be potential to work something out there as well, or at the very least get some contacts who can help.

So there's heaps of potential to do big things in the USA, if the right people are willing to call in some favours, however you never get something for nothing, Rusty for example would probably want Souths involved in some way if he was going to help.

Not saying they would broadcast the game, but they may. Doesn't stop them putting a story on Sports Center about it though. Not just ESPN but local news programmes also.

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2 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Well to be fair he has worked with ESPN before (when he was doing his MLB thing) and does have connections with sports personalities in America, so if it is Jason Moore organising it then he has the means to at least get some stuff organised with ESPN.

MLB work was done in Australia where American sports are watched by a decent amount of people. Australia is vastly different market from the America. The perception that you haven't made it until you made it in America is held by many Aussies which is why something like the MLB was successful in Australia. Whereas most Americans couldn't really care about the Australian sports

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3 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Well yes they are good examples thanks. What makes you the oracle of the USA sports industry by the way?

So who are the Kiwi or England rugby league equivalent of those two? Never claimed I was, I'm just looking at it from a logical and realistic point of view instead of thinking that every idea that comes along is going to result in rugby league suddenly becoming a major sport in these places

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3 minutes ago, Jace said:

MLB work was done in Australia where American sports are watched by a decent amount of people. Australia is vastly different market from the America. The perception that you haven't made it until you made it in America is held by many Aussies which is why something like the MLB was successful in Australia. Whereas most Americans couldn't really care about the Australian sports

Sure, but the experience and connections that he has made in his dealings with MLB and ESPN in the past would only be helpful in cracking the USA.

 

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1 minute ago, Jace said:

So who are the Kiwi or England rugby league equivalent of those two? Never claimed I was, I'm just looking at it from a logical and realistic point of view instead of thinking that every idea that comes along is going to result in rugby league suddenly becoming a major sport in these places

Never said there is. But giving examples how this method has been used over and over again to promote sporting events across the globe which you said it would do nothing. Which a hell alot of sports marketing companies might disagree with.

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