England - who will step down and who will step up?

[Lowdesert]

Despite the loss, a great effort from our lads.  Already we have questions whether WB will stay. IMO we need to do all we can to keep this coaching staff together.  

SOL, Brown and maybe Roby (what a player), could be missing from the NZ series.  Who will step in?  We have a Centre berth begging, we’re screaming out for a stand off/s for the future and we must have a Hooker to take over from JR.  We also have other considerations for players that could’ve been involved:

Taylor.  I think his chance will come v NZ.

Williams.  Questionmarks might be answered now.

S Tomkins.  Questionmarks regarding injury, pace.  If right, could be SO.

Manfredi.  Injuries dependant.

Johnstone.  Natural pace.

Shaul.  Natural pace.

Watts.  Deserving imo.

Sargison.  Half a mil for anyone telling why he’s fallen off.

Mellor.  ‘Roby’ in the making?

Greenwood.  NZ test could be ideal.

Its going to be interesting leading up to the NZ series!

 

[Hvy wg]

Taylor and Watts  a better choice than the Burgess twins for they do not have holes in their hands.

Tomkins will be 32 by the next WC.

Manfredi and Johnstone same thing, they're awesome in SL but could they cope with the pressure?

Sarginson doesn't warrant safety, but at least knows how to pass the ball to his winger.




 

[MZH]

I'd like to throw Jake Connor's name into the ring, as a centre, which is where I expect him to play the majority of his rugby from now on. He's got the skills, hes a big lad and he is improving all the time.

[jacksy]

If Radford changes tactics and utilises Shaul better as an attacking, passing  & linking fullback..we could have a gem.

[jacksy]

Watts over Burgess every day for me.

[MZH]

1 minute ago, jacksy said:

If Radford changes tactics and utilises Shaul better as an attacking, passing  & linking fullback..we could have a gem.

I'm not sure its ever going to Shaul's game. He is at his best with a bit of broken field. Get him in the clear and its a try. Hes a good one on one defender, he is solid defending any kind of kick, and hes a devastating returner of the ball and support player, but I'm not sure his link play will ever be more than just ok. If I am wrong then he will be shoe in for England in the future.

[Hvy wg]

Is Shaul solid at defending bombs on his line? Because he's a bit of a small guy and realistically he stands no chance against the giants Aussie backs?

[MZH]

1 minute ago, Hvy wg said:

Is Shaul solid at defending bombs on his line? Because he's a bit of a small guy and realistically he stands no chance against the giants Aussie backs?

Its never been a problem. I mean yes, if a 6'5 guy gets above him he's got his work cut out, but how often does a full back find himself in that situation? He has always been good at coming away with the ball when there are alot of bodies around him. Besides, hes the same height at Lomax.

[Just Browny]

If Ward is fit, he should be in with a shout of taking O'Loughlin's spot.

Big 'if', though.

Trouble with Tomkins is that it seems unlikely he will be playing stand-off at club level next year. That is where we have a real gap and a fit Tomkins could fill it.

[jacksy]

16 minutes ago, Hvy wg said:

Is Shaul solid at defending bombs on his line? Because he's a bit of a small guy and realistically he stands no chance against the giants Aussie backs?

Mmm but Lomax, Tomkins and even Widdop are small guys.

I am not suggesting that Shaul is a shoe in. I would like to see his game change and progress. If it does then who knows.

I would loved to have seen him on Watkins or anybodys shoulder or half break today.

[EagleEyePie]

A lot of people were calling for Shaul to be included but I thought the effectiveness of Widdop at fullback compared to Lomax and Ratchford, even though both have played a lot of their careers as halves, showed just how smart you have to be as a ball player to really be a top class international fullback. The playmaking instincts of Widdop made such a difference and that's where Shaul, and even Lomax and Ratchford, fall short.

Taylor had a great season and was probably unlucky to miss out. Perhaps he lacks a little bit of defensive mobility at times but I thought he should have been given more of a chance in this tournament. 

Manfredi is way off at the moment. His biggest challenge is getting back to playing rugby league at any level, never mind playing for England. It's a shame because a coupe of years ago he was playing better than McGillvary and, with the development that you'd expect with young players as they get more experience, could have made him one of the best in the world by now. Hopefully he'll make a return late next year and not have any more setbacks.

I don't think Joe Burgess should be ruled out. He struggled at the Roosters but looked far better in his short stint at the Rabbitohs. This year he's struggled with injury and loss of form but if he can get back to his best he might make an impact. He's only just turned 23 so has plenty of time on his side. Besides, if there could be any slight criticism of our wingers in this tournament it's a lack of pace.

Tomkins could be considered at fullback but it depends where he plays at Wigan next year. Wane has already said he's considering positional changes and if Escare plays as well as he did this year then Tomkins could be back in the halves.

Hopefully with an extra year of experience the back row will be strengthened. I don't think O'Loughlin will be playing for England next year and Burgess might move to 13. That leaves an interesting fight between the likes of Currie, Ward, Bateman, McMeeken, maybe even Greenwood or Farrell, for the back row.

[Lowdesert]

6 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

If Ward is fit, he should be in with a shout of taking O'Loughlin's spot.

Big 'if', though.

Trouble with Tomkins is that it seems unlikely he will be playing stand-off at club level next year. That is where we have a real gap and a fit Tomkins could fill it.

Yes, Ward.  Remiss of me not to consider him.  He needs a good, injury free season now.  

 

[Gates1]

By interesting to see how many of the England squad may be wooed by NRL teams I'm sure if Mcgilivary, Watkins, Hill, Walmsley, Roby or Currie wanted to try their luck they would have suitors.

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

I was going to post a similar thread myself but was struggling to articulate.

I am more of a fan of evolution rather than revolution and while we probably need to build towards the next world cup we still want to beat the Kiwi's next year, therefore I would not be making wholesale changes.

I would pretty much expect O'Loughlin to announce his international retirement in the next few weeks (what a pity he had to go out injured) and I can't see Brown being picked again. Roby has said he will always put his hand up for England and, form depending I think I'd keep him especially ad Hodgson may be a long time out, leaving room to bring in another hooker, possibly Clarke or Houghton.

I think we need to start bedding in a new centre instead of Bateman, who may be in line to replace SOL - I always thought that's why Wigan signed him and a new halfback, or full back if Widdop moves back there. As much as I like Lomax I don't think he is international class. Think I'd give Shaul a go at fullback and Percival at centre with maybe O'Connor in the squad as bar one game Sargington hasn't performed as an international

Neither Hill or Graham are likely to be around for the next world cup but should be good for next year, but we need to start giving new props a chance in the squad, on current form and ability I think I'd bring Watts in for Hill and retain Graham another year, though Hill has just had his best game of the tournament.

I think Hall and McGilvery have been outstanding, Hall on the back of what was probably not his best year for Leeds. I'd retain both for next year but bring another winger into the squad as one or both are likely to be finished by the next world cup.. Probably Johnston.

So out would be O'Loughlin, Lomax Brown and Hill. In Watts Shaul, O'Connor and Johnson.

Of course everything is fitness and form dependant

[Tongs ya bas]

43 minutes ago, Hvy wg said:

Taylor and Watts  a better choice than the Burgess twins for they do not have holes in their hands.

Tomkins will be 32 by the next WC.

Manfredi and Johnstone same thing, they're awesome in SL but could they cope with the pressure?

Sarginson doesn't warrant safety, but at least knows how to pass the ball to his winger.




 

Thirty two is ok, as long as he's still got it in him

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

Reading some of the posts put up while I was typing I forgot about Ward and Ratchford, think I'd bring Ward in for Ratchford and retain McMeekin in the squad

[Gates1]

There will also be a few left fielders that play their way in.

Be interesting to see how Savelio goes in the NRL.  Wardle could have a big season at Cas.   Wigan have a few young talented backs.  If Jack Walker keeps developing at the pace he has so far he is almost certainly a future England full back.

[rhinos78]

From players not in the world cup squad who i think should be making a push for the kiwis

1.Shaul

2.Johnston

3.Conner

4.Suttcliffe

5.Burgess

6.Tomkins

7.Sneyd

8.G Burgess

9.Clark

10.Watts

11.Greenwood

12.Wardle

13.Ward

[Lowdesert]

10 minutes ago, Gates1 said:

There will also be a few left fielders that play their way in.

Be interesting to see how Savelio goes in the NRL.  Wardle could have a big season at Cas.   Wigan have a few young talented backs.  If Jack Walker keeps developing at the pace he has so far he is almost certainly a future England full back.

Savielio good call.  Dependant on how he carries on in Aus.

[Hvy wg]

Cut the Burgess twins. They've been professionals for years and can't hold on to the ball. 

 

[SilentAssassin]

18 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

Thirty two is ok, as long as he's still got it in him

yes, considering Smith, Cronk, Thurston and Slater are all well over 32 right now we shouldn't be writing off players these days at that age, if they are playing well then pick them for me.

the likes of Hall, JM, Watkins, Tomkins, Widdop, Burgess will all be around that age come the next WC, be interesting to see who, if any make it.

[Lowdesert]

Just now, SilentAssassin said:

yes, considering Smith, Cronk, Thurston and Slater are all well over 32 right now we shouldn't be writing off players these days at that age, if they are playing well then pick them for me.

the likes of Hall, JM, Watkins, Tomkins, Widdop, Burgess will all be around that age come the next WC, be interesting to see who, if any make it.

Cronk has announced his retirement today.  Slater has intimated it at his post match interview, so it’s reasonable to make assumptions for Thurston and Smith.

Not so sure about SB, Hall or Tomkins though.

[SilentAssassin]

1 minute ago, Lowdesert said:

Cronk has announced his retirement today.  Slater has intimated it at his post match interview, so it’s reasonable to make assumptions for Thurston and Smith.

Not so sure about SB, Hall or Tomkins though.

I know and that was expected, but my point is they are still at the very top of their games and at mid 30's to boot, and are going out on their terms. same as SOL, he was great for us still this WC before injury and he is 35 now too.

a lot can happen in 4 years but i think a few of the ones i mentioned will still be going strong, it's foolish to write somebody off because they have passed 30.

[Gates1]

18 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Savielio good call.  Dependant on how he carries on in Aus.

Be great to see him reach his potential over there.

[Lowdesert]

4 minutes ago, SilentAssassin said:

I know and that was expected, but my point is they are still at the very top of their games and at mid 30's to boot, and are going out on their terms. same as SOL, he was great for us still this WC before injury and he is 35 now too.

a lot can happen in 4 years but i think a few of the ones i mentioned will still be going strong, it's foolish to write somebody off because they have passed 30.

Think that’s fair enough.  Smith is 34 now, 35 next year.  Playing like he does could last for years.  IMO I think he’ll move away from it now.