Tony Smith on FiveLive this morning

[DeadShotKeen]

David Davies had Tony Smith on his FiveLive Sportsweek show this morning. Gave a nice little interview and when asked "Where next for the sport?" made it clear - albeit a little more politely than I might have liked - that the sport needs to expand beyond its heartland regions and in order to accomplish this needs a new administration.

It was a little disappointing to hear him speak in very broad terms and not directly criticise the return to P&R in 2013 (which he was critical about at the time when Warrington coach) or mention any specific expansion targets but he was as ever a great enthusiast and also incredibly optimistic. "When people see and understand our sport they fall in love with it" was a nice line near the end of the interview.

He is right and this is the time for the sport to strike. An ageing England side developed during the licensing period of 2007-13 went very close to finally winning the World Cup. Who knows what might have happened yesterday had the sport not regressed 4 years ago and our development continued along those lines. Moving forward we will see the results of that regression and of an administration whose backward-thinking strategy is to cut academy sides to save money at elite level. 

We cannot allow these self-important, parochial halfwits to erode what we have achieved as a sport in a short time. If we are to move on in any way we need to return to what has worked for us so far - licensing, expansion and junior level development funded by a genuinely outward-looking elite structure.

Well said Smith. Now it's time for the modernists and optimists to stand up and overthrow the regressives and doom-mongers.

[DeadShotKeen]

2 minutes ago, DeadShotKeen said:

David Davies had Tony Smith on his FiveLive Sportsweek show this morning. Gave a nice little interview and when asked "Where next for the sport?" made it clear - albeit a little more politely than I might have liked - that the sport needs to expand beyond its heartland regions and in order to accomplish this needs a new administration.

It was a little disappointing to hear him speak in very broad terms and not directly criticise the return to P&R in 2013 (which he was critical about at the time when Warrington coach) or mention any specific expansion targets but he was as ever a great enthusiast and also incredibly optimistic. "When people see and understand our sport they fall in love with it" was a nice line near the end of the interview.

He is right and this is the time for the sport to strike. An ageing England side developed during the licensing period of 2007-13 went very close to finally winning the World Cup. Who knows what might have happened yesterday had the sport not regressed 4 years ago and our development continued along those lines. Moving forward we will see the results of that regression and of an administration whose backward-thinking strategy is to cut academy sides to save money at elite level. 

We cannot allow these self-important, parochial halfwits to erode what we have achieved as a sport in a short time. If we are to move on in any way we need to return to what has worked for us so far - licensing, expansion and junior level development funded by a genuinely outward-looking elite structure.

Well said Smith. Now it's time for the modernists and optimists to stand up and overthrow the regressives and doom-mongers.

Whoops! That was just meant to be a tidy-up edit.

[deluded pom?]

Do you understand the expression 'one trick pony'?

[deluded pom?]

Isn't it a bit arrogant to quote yourself?

[DeadShotKeen]

1 minute ago, deluded pom? said:

Do you understand the expression 'one trick pony'?

It is the most vital issue facing the sport so I make no apologies whatsoever.

If you don't like the topic you can always ignore it.

 

[DeadShotKeen]

2 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Isn't it a bit arrogant to quote yourself?

It was an edit and I see you can't delete on the new-fangled forum.

[deluded pom?]

2 minutes ago, DeadShotKeen said:

It is the most vital issue facing the sport so I make no apologies whatsoever.

If you don't like the topic you can always ignore it.

 

True but there's always the faintest of hopes that you've moved on. BTW it is possible to delete a quoted post.

[terrywebbisgod]

5 minutes ago, DeadShotKeen said:

It is the most vital issue facing the sport so I make no apologies whatsoever.

If you don't like the topic you can always ignore it.

 

Yet you never provide any answers apart from "big city franchises" and try to belittle anyone who questions or disagrees with you.

Everyone knows the game needs to expand over here.

[deluded pom?]

20 minutes ago, terrywebbisgod said:

Yet you never provide any answers apart from "big city franchises" and try to belittle anyone who questions or disagrees with you.

Everyone knows the game needs to expand over here.

He/she never explains where the funding will come from either.

[Dave T]

39 minutes ago, terrywebbisgod said:

Yet you never provide any answers apart from "big city franchises" and try to belittle anyone who questions or disagrees with you.

Everyone knows the game needs to expand over here.

DSK belittles even the many expansionists on here because they dont agree with his ideas to the letter.

[Scubby]

Tony Smith has said his piece about what should happen with the domestic game. It has been well reported.

I like Smith he is good for the game. However, for all those people slagging off Steve McNamara as England coach, both he (2010-2015) and Smith (2007-2009) were full time. The systems and structures that McNamara put in place were far in advance of what Smith did and England are feeling the benefits of this under Bennett now. 

 

[DeadShotKeen]

32 minutes ago, Dave T said:

DSK belittles even the many expansionists on here because they dont agree with his ideas to the letter.

Can you give some examples of that?

If by "expansionists" you mean those (like you) who only accept expansion when is at a sub-elite level and doesn't threaten the dominance of the M62 sides then yes, I do oppose them. That isn't a case of disagreement with other "expansionists" because those are not expansionists in my eyes (so it is more a question of semantics).

I agree with Tony Smith, who I believe to be a true expansionist.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, DeadShotKeen said:

Can you give some examples of that?

If by "expansionists" you mean those (like you) who only accept expansion when is at a sub-elite level and doesn't threaten the dominance of the M62 sides then yes, I do oppose them. That isn't a case of disagreement with other "expansionists" because those are not expansionists in my eyes (so it is more a question of semantics).

I agree with Tony Smith, who I believe to be a true expansionist.

Well, there's the example you wanted

And dont claim you know my views. I stopped explaining my views to you when you demonstrated that you dont listen and just make people's views up for them.

Why would I be precious about things staying around the M62 when i live hundreds of miles from there. Do you not think id love top level Rugby near to me?

[Lowdesert]

3 hours ago, DeadShotKeen said:

Whoops! That was just meant to be a tidy-up edit.

Is that the final edit then?

[Angelic Cynic]

4 hours ago, DeadShotKeen said:

David Davies had Tony Smith on his FiveLive Sportsweek show this morning. Gave a nice little interview and when asked "Where next for the sport?" made it clear - albeit a little more politely than I might have liked - that the sport needs to expand beyond its heartland regions and in order to accomplish this needs a new administration.

It was a little disappointing to hear him speak in very broad terms and not directly criticise the return to P&R in 2013 (which he was critical about at the time when Warrington coach) or mention any specific expansion targets but he was as ever a great enthusiast and also incredibly optimistic. "When people see and understand our sport they fall in love with it" was a nice line near the end of the interview.

He is right and this is the time for the sport to strike. An ageing England side developed during the licensing period of 2007-13 went very close to finally winning the World Cup. Who knows what might have happened yesterday had the sport not regressed 4 years ago and our development continued along those lines. Moving forward we will see the results of that regression and of an administration whose backward-thinking strategy is to cut academy sides to save money at elite level. 

We cannot allow these self-important, parochial halfwits to erode what we have achieved as a sport in a short time. If we are to move on in any way we need to return to what has worked for us so far - licensing, expansion and junior level development funded by a genuinely outward-looking elite structure.

Well said Smith. Now it's time for the modernists and optimists to stand up and overthrow the regressives and doom-mongers.

     Having watched the England side playing in the final there seemed to be a number of players in the line-up who not only play in the NRL but who,presumably,receive their salary in dollars,perhaps bank that money in Australia,pay their taxes to Australian authorities and do the things that Australians do.I even saw one of the brothers,who lives in Australia,who recently married an Australian,holding a baby who was born in Australia,in his arms while being interviewed.

  Whether he,his mother and siblings chose to leave England as free-choice adults or to go and live in Australia unknowingly,just as unknowingly as where they were born,while they were still in nappies,or toddlers,doesn't suggest that the Licensing,brought in by individuals no longer involved in the sport,had a great bearing on the performance,coached by an individual who just happens to be from a non-English country.

  I agree with Academies being required and junior level development.I think the governing body for the sport,in the scepter'd isle,has suggested the Super League clubs are responsible for the decision making on Academies,reserve sides etc.

[Big Picture]

4 hours ago, DeadShotKeen said:

Whoops! That was just meant to be a tidy-up edit.

Why not just edit your original post then, rather than quoting it?

[DeadShotKeen]

17 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Why not just edit your original post then, rather than quoting it?

That was what I tried to do, obviously.

The clue was in the word "meant".

[shaun mc]

I agree to some extent, but hows it going to happen without serious cash and an expansion of the player base. And that applies to every country in the RWC2017 except Australia and those that weren't in it

The current UK administration seems quite happy to see the player pool reduce and leave it up to the clubs whether they contract or develop that player pool. Then there are more N America teams being mooted - at the moment they will all be after the same ;player pool, what then?

We are in with Sky who are only providing enough cash for a full time first team to just about keep their heads above water, whilst their 2 main competitive markets are raising their salary caps year on year. Sky aint interested in  reserves or Academy or the Championship that is so plain to see

For a great World Cup in 2013 not a sniff of legacy was the outcome. The 2017 RWC was for armchair fans only it seems, they weren't bothered about remotely filling stadiums

I'm not trying to be negative, but these are some of the issues that have to be overcome before the game can get up to the stage your OP suggests. It was good to hear Meninga and Daley talking about more international games though

Your outspoken on this DSK and repeat it often. I'd really like to hear your practical views on how the game gets there, without fantasy scenarios

[TMF]

Nobody can argue against academy's. They're great but that step up into first team is too big a gap and without a reserve team set up, the game will continue to haemorrhage talent  but i'm still waiting to see a coherent plan between RL/Clubs to finance what, after all, is the future. Leaving it up to the have and have nots is not the answer. 

[deluded pom?]

1 hour ago, shaun mc said:

 Daley talking about more international games though

Not so sure about that. He's advocating an indigenous team in the WC.

[Scubby]

Just now, deluded pom? said:

Not so sure about that. He's advocating an indigenous team in the WC.

Yep I saw that. Is he also advocating that for Moaris and Native Americans? And for all sports such as cricket and football and at the Olympics? 

Do Australians actually understand that they have just one vote on the RLIF?

Sometimes it goes beyond words.

[DeadShotKeen]

6 hours ago, Dave T said:

Well, there's the example you wanted

And dont claim you know my views. I stopped explaining my views to you when you demonstrated that you dont listen and just make people's views up for them.

Why would I be precious about things staying around the M62 when i live hundreds of miles from there. Do you not think id love top level Rugby near to me?

Fair enough. So supposing we could find a Koukash/Perez to set up a side in Edinburgh (not unthinkable by any means) would you support the granting of a permanent SL licence to such a side to help establish and grow the sport in Scotland?

And if - as would seem likely - such a modernisation necessitated the loss of at least 1 side from the heartlands (Wakey or HKR, say) in order to accommodate it would you also support that?

Because if the answer to either of those questions is no then you are not an expansionist as I see it. 

[DeadShotKeen]

1 hour ago, shaun mc said:

I agree to some extent, but hows it going to happen without serious cash and an expansion of the player base. And that applies to every country in the RWC2017 except Australia and those that weren't in it

The current UK administration seems quite happy to see the player pool reduce and leave it up to the clubs whether they contract or develop that player pool. Then there are more N America teams being mooted - at the moment they will all be after the same ;player pool, what then?

We are in with Sky who are only providing enough cash for a full time first team to just about keep their heads above water, whilst their 2 main competitive markets are raising their salary caps year on year. Sky aint interested in  reserves or Academy or the Championship that is so plain to see

For a great World Cup in 2013 not a sniff of legacy was the outcome. The 2017 RWC was for armchair fans only it seems, they weren't bothered about remotely filling stadiums

I'm not trying to be negative, but these are some of the issues that have to be overcome before the game can get up to the stage your OP suggests. It was good to hear Meninga and Daley talking about more international games though

Your outspoken on this DSK and repeat it often. I'd really like to hear your practical views on how the game gets there, without fantasy scenarios

It's not a fantasy to suggest that with the right optimism and energy you could assemble wealthy benefactors and sponsors to invest in a modern elite RL structure. It's a question of political will, which is clearly not present within the current administration. From day one this administration has shown a genuine desire to contract back towards the heartlands and offers only half-hearted and under-funded expansion projects, which are barely even worthy of the name.

I don't think anyone would suggest that RL expansion is easy but what is unacceptable (and frankly, dangerous) for the sport is for us to have an administration that genuinely favours contraction and stasis over expansion.

I am very confident from what I heard from Tony Smith this morning that he for one agrees wholeheartedly with this assessment. He said pretty much the exact same thing, albeit in softer, more generous form.

[Tongs ya bas]

8 hours ago, terrywebbisgod said:

 

Everyone knows the game needs to expand over here.

They do Terry.

However the system that we have in place can snuff it out on the back of one bad season. We saw that almost happen this year.

[terrywebbisgod]

5 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

They do Terry.

However the system that we have in place can snuff it out on the back of one bad season. We saw that almost happen this year.

It can be snuffed out in any system.

After all clubs are at the whim of wealthy benefactors,whor could and do lose interest in their "new toy" if things don't go their way.