Tony Smith on FiveLive this morning

[Norfolk]

Anyone who thinks a 'franchise' system works in this country just didn't pay attention over the last few years.

[Tongs ya bas]

8 minutes ago, terrywebbisgod said:

It can be snuffed out in any system.

After all clubs are at the whim of wealthy benefactors,whor could and do lose interest in their "new toy" if things don't go their way.

That's like saying because people still get run over, we should abolish zebra crossings

[Tongs ya bas]

6 minutes ago, Norfolk said:

Anyone who thinks a 'franchise' system works in this country just didn't pay attention over the last few years.

We haven't had a franchise system inside or outside inverted commas

[terrywebbisgod]

2 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

That's like saying because people still get run over, we should abolish zebra crossings

Don't talk wet. 

Clubs can fail in any system.

Pointless discussing something when someone wants to be so obtuse.

I'm done.

 

[deluded pom?]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

Do Australians actually understand that they have just one vote on the RLIF

Is that actually right though?

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Is that actually right though?

How could it not be? You are either a full member or not. France, England, NZ, PNG, Samoa, Fiji etc. are all full members according to the RLIF site. What kind of International Body would give any country extra weighting?

[Tongs ya bas]

23 minutes ago, terrywebbisgod said:

Don't talk wet. 

Clubs can fail in any system.

Pointless discussing something when someone wants to be so obtuse.

I'm done.

 

Yes they can. But there's no point in making it worse by building it into the system.

[deluded pom?]

6 minutes ago, Scubby said:

How could it not be? You are either a full member or not. France, England, NZ, PNG, Samoa, Fiji etc. are all full members according to the RLIF site. What kind of International Body would give any country extra weighting?

I've just tried to find out the voting structure but I can't find anything. I always thought the big three held the power with more votes than other members. I seriously can't imagine Serbia having the same voting rights as Australia. I'm not saying it's right by the way. 

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, deluded pom? said:

I've just tried to find out the voting structure but I can't find anything. I always thought the big three held the power with more votes than other members. I seriously can't imagine Serbia having the same voting rights as Australia. I'm not saying it's right by the way. 

Yep could you imagine Tier 1 votes, Tier 2 votes etc. How could you ever hope to get Olympic recognition for that? When is a full member not a full member.

[deluded pom?]

6 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yep could you imagine Tier 1 votes, Tier 2 votes etc. How could you ever hope to get Olympic recognition for that? When is a full member not a full member.

When it's rugby league.

[Bob8]

42 minutes ago, Norfolk said:

Anyone who thinks a 'franchise' system works in this country just didn't pay attention over the last few years.

That is a cheap and nonsense argument.

Promotion and Relegation becomes impure as soon as we are promoting and relegating to different league structures, which might be the case if we have Toronto, Cats and TO.

I favour not having it.  Losing Catalans would have been terrible for the game.  But, the evidence of the last few years proves nothing either way.  There is no evidence of a huge bump in crowd with P&R. 

The essential problem is that it is a debate about how to choose twelve suitable candidates from the fewer than then that we have.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, DeadShotKeen said:

Fair enough. So supposing we could find a Koukash/Perez to set up a side in Edinburgh (not unthinkable by any means) would you support the granting of a permanent SL licence to such a side to help establish and grow the sport in Scotland?

And if - as would seem likely - such a modernisation necessitated the loss of at least 1 side from the heartlands (Wakey or HKR, say) in order to accommodate it would you also support that?

Because if the answer to either of those questions is no then you are not an expansionist as I see it. 

So by your definition Toronto Wolfpack is not an expansion effort?

I wont be writing detailed posts to a spoilt child.

Your comments are insulting to expansion efforts worldwide.

[BroncoFan]

I don't really agree that it is an ageing England squad, apart from a 3 or 4 i'd be surprised if the rest aren't still around for the next WC.

[Mister Ting]

11 hours ago, terrywebbisgod said:

Don't talk wet. 

Clubs can fail in any system.

Pointless discussing something when someone wants to be so obtuse.

I'm done.

 

Same old boring trite.

[terrywebbisgod]

1 hour ago, Mister Ting said:

Same old boring trite.

Why thank you.

[Mister Ting]

4 minutes ago, terrywebbisgod said:

Why thank you.

You're most welcome.

[DeadShotKeen]

On 12/3/2017 at 10:00 PM, Dave T said:

So by your definition Toronto Wolfpack is not an expansion effort?

I wont be writing detailed posts to a spoilt child.

Your comments are insulting to expansion efforts worldwide.

That is a truly bizarre response by any standards and really translates to "I'm not winning so will take my ball home".

Your failure to answer 2 very simple questions is obviously noted and people can make up their own minds as to where you stand on the issue at hand.

Unlike you I won't be childish and will respond to your point, even though you haven't afforded me the same courtesy. Of course Toronto is an expansion effort but if they don't make SL (which they will) it will ultimately prove to be fruitless. As with this year the sport has created a structure whereby it could face the bizarre prospect of Toronto vs AN Other heartlands team in the "Million Pound Game", with a radically different outlook (and media attention especially) for the game depending on the winner. Or of course Toronto could face Catalan, which would be "1 step forward, 1 step back" for the sport if Toronto won.

There are serious expansion efforts and there are half-hearted expansion efforts. Clearly those that are built into a long-term stable structure are the only ones that deserve to be taken seriously and treating Toronto, London, Catalan etc. the same as Batley, Dewsbury and Barrow does not qualify for that category by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[DeadShotKeen]

I should have added there that 100% of the investment into Toronto has come from Eric Perez himself. Supposing a consortium of modestly financed fans had put the groundwork in to establish TV interest and with the exact same fanbase potential do we think the RFL would have helped them fund and enhance the project? There is precisely nothing in the language or actions of the current administration that suggests this would be the case.

Toronto has succeeded precisely because of the actions of one wealthy enthusiast and despite the RFL. Wood and his buddies I'm quite sure would like to see Toronto fail and are secretly hoping that they stall in the second tier.  

[Mattrhino]

The sport has regressed at the speed of knots since licencing was scrapped, the M62 brigade almost got what they wanted last year with Catalans in the relegation play-off.

If has been shown that if you don't put franchise restrictions on clubs, they will cut academies, reserves and any investment other than the first team.

 

[Mattrhino]

7 hours ago, DeadShotKeen said:

I should have added there that 100% of the investment into Toronto has come from Eric Perez himself. Supposing a consortium of modestly financed fans had put the groundwork in to establish TV interest and with the exact same fanbase potential do we think the RFL would have helped them fund and enhance the project? There is precisely nothing in the language or actions of the current administration that suggests this would be the case.

Toronto has succeeded precisely because of the actions of one wealthy enthusiast and despite the RFL. Wood and his buddies I'm quite sure would like to see Toronto fail and are secretly hoping that they stall in the second tier.  

Same with Toulouse, they have been financing everything with no help from the RFL. The village clubs still complain about having to endure the South of France.

[Lobbygobbler]

55 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

The sport has regressed at the speed of knots since licencing was scrapped, the M62 brigade almost got what they wanted last year with Catalans in the relegation play-off.

If has been shown that if you don't put franchise restrictions on clubs, they will cut academies, reserves and any investment other than the first team.

 

Those restrictions could and should still be imposed in a P&R system (similar to overseas quota's). Catalans could/should have also be exempt

[MatthewWoody]

On 3/12/2017 at 10:24 PM, Bob8 said:

That is a cheap and nonsense argument.

Promotion and Relegation becomes impure as soon as we are promoting and relegating to different league structures, which might be the case if we have Toronto, Cats and TO.

I favour not having it.  Losing Catalans would have been terrible for the game.  But, the evidence of the last few years proves nothing either way.  There is no evidence of a huge bump in crowd with P&R. 

The essential problem is that it is a debate about how to choose twelve suitable candidates from the fewer than then that we have.

Assuring Catalans a place in SL despite the results would be worse, imho. 

[Jim Prendle]

4 hours ago, Mattrhino said:

The sport has regressed at the speed of knots since licencing was scrapped, the M62 brigade almost got what they wanted last year with Catalans in the relegation play-off.

If has been shown that if you don't put franchise restrictions on clubs, they will cut academies, reserves and any investment other than the first team.

 

Who are the fabled "M62 Brigade"?

I don't think I actually know anyone who wants the game the game to be confined to its current boundaries.

[Bob8]

2 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Who are the fabled "M62 Brigade"?

I don't think I actually know anyone who wants the game the game to be confined to its current boundaries.

We very rarely meet people who say they do not want to travel.  They just have a long list of excuses why it is not possible.

[Rover and out]

On 03/12/2017 at 8:01 PM, DeadShotKeen said:

Fair enough. So supposing we could find a Koukash/Perez to set up a side in Edinburgh (not unthinkable by any means) would you support the granting of a permanent SL licence to such a side to help establish and grow the sport in Scotland?

And if - as would seem likely - such a modernisation necessitated the loss of at least 1 side from the heartlands (Wakey or HKR, say) in order to accommodate it would you also support that?

Because if the answer to either of those questions is no then you are not an expansionist as I see it. 

Where's are the players coming from for these teams if we were just to grant them a sl licence straight from the off? As we've seen with Toronto and other expansion teams in the past they either come from the lower end sl players/ top end championship players or are reserve grade ozzies. You mention a koukash type benefactor but if we use Salford as an example, this is a well established heartlands team with a rich rl history already in sl, koukash put millions into the club trying to bring success on and off the field, trying to increase the fanbase and tap into the Manchester market. It didn't work and eventually koukash left because the success didn't come fast enough for him and the club is no better now than before he arrived. That's gonna be one of the problems with rich benefactors, they will want overnight success and if it doesn't happen fast enough they will get bored and leave, they aren't just going to want to throw money away. I agree that the game needs to move forward but as it stands the money isn't there and neither is the player pool. Thinking that there are investors out there ready to pump loads of money into big city teams with little to no chance of recouping their investment is just pie in the sky stuff IMO, for these clubs to take off and be viable without damaging the game and other clubs we need someone to invest from the ground up in these areas and the rfl don't have the money to do that. If someone can tell me how we can do that realistically then fair enough, I just don't see how it can be done at this moment in time when the game is already struggling in rugby league areas at junior and amateur levels.