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Maximus Decimus

The Culture Wars

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2 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

I can see numerous principles in there that the American left have violated and continue to violate. 

Classic liberalism and modern day ‘liberalism’ are obvious not the same

You've done that thing of not remotely answering the question.

Also, and this may shock you, nobody you're speaking to would define themselves as part of the American left.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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14 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

I can see numerous principles in there that the American left have violated and continue to violate. 

Classic liberalism and modern day ‘liberalism’ are obvious not the same

So once again, what do you think "liberal" means?

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17 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You've done that thing of not remotely answering the question.

Also, and this may shock you, nobody you're speaking to would define themselves as part of the American left.

Yes but it’s mainly the American left who refer to themselves as ‘liberals’ 

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11 minutes ago, Shadow said:

So once again, what do you think "liberal" means?

Not disputing the definition however that definition doesn’t fit the American left yet that is what they call themselves 

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3 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

Yes but it’s mainly the American left who refer to themselves as ‘liberals’ 

You what?

I'll happily call myself liberal. I belong to a party that calls itself the Liberal Democrats. There's a good long tradition of liberals in Britain carrying right on to today. All calling themselves 'liberal'.

This is a British board. For the sake of having a point here at all, why not stick to that perspective for the time being.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

Not disputing the definition however that definition doesn’t fit the American left yet that is what they call themselves 

Right.

 

We're not in America, no one here is arguing as an American Liberal. I'm not really sure why you're fighting the good fight here, surely there's a US based political forum you could spout your ill informed distortions of facts onto? 

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8 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

Not disputing the definition however that definition doesn’t fit the American left yet that is what they call themselves 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_(Norway)

You might as well have a rant against this bunch of Scandi-Liberals as well. It would be as relevant as your pronouncements against your impressions of the American "left" 

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4 minutes ago, Shadow said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_(Norway)

You might as well have a rant against this bunch of Scandi-Liberals as well. It would be as relevant as your pronouncements against your impressions of the American "left" 

I seem to remember there were some Russian ethno-fascists who called themselves Liberal Democrats.

YK must have been livid about that one.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You what?

I'll happily call myself liberal. I belong to a party that calls itself the Liberal Democrats. There's a good long tradition of liberals in Britain carrying right on to today. All calling themselves 'liberal'.

This is a British board. For the sake of having a point here at all, why not stick to that perspective for the time being.

 

6 minutes ago, Shadow said:

Right.

 

We're not in America, no one here is arguing as an American Liberal. I'm not really sure why you're fighting the good fight here, surely there's a US based political forum you could spout your ill informed distortions of facts onto? 

 

3 minutes ago, Shadow said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_(Norway)

You might as well have a rant against this bunch of Scandi-Liberals as well. It would be as relevant as your pronouncements against your impressions of the American "left" 

Western and Northern Europe are hardly the bastions of liberalism in the true sense of the word. Don’t conflate far left parties with the definition of liberalism because that’s where you go wrong. Even if we disregard American politics, the basic premise of my assertions still hold true in the case of Europe. For instance, one of the most influential underpinnings of liberalism is free speech or freedom of speech. As we know, people have been shouted down and in some cases thrown in jail for expressing their views in certain parts of Europe with Britain being a prime example. And in nearly all these cases, those views went against “liberal” views which is why they were punished for it.

So why are these European “liberals” not staying true to the definition of the world?

Do you think no reasons exist for the distinction which is always made between classical liberalism and modern liberalism? 

There is nothing liberating about the left

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1 minute ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

As we know, people have been shouted down and in some cases thrown in jail for expressing their views in certain parts of Europe with Britain being a prime example.

Who's been thrown in jail in Britain for expressing their view?


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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4 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

 

 

Western and Northern Europe are hardly the bastions of liberalism in the true sense of the word. Don’t conflate far left parties with the definition of liberalism because that’s where you go wrong. Even if we disregard American politics, the basic premise of my assertions still hold true in the case of Europe. For instance, one of the most influential underpinnings of liberalism is free speech or freedom of speech. As we know, people have been shouted down and in some cases thrown in jail for expressing their views in certain parts of Europe with Britain being a prime example. And in nearly all these cases, those views went against “liberal” views which is why they were punished for it.

So why are these European “liberals” not staying true to the definition of the world?

Do you think no reasons exist for the distinction which is always made between classical liberalism and modern liberalism? 

There is nothing liberating about the left

You are still not answering the simple question, what do you think liberal means? 

Everything else in your post is just noise and strawmen. 

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1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Who's been thrown in jail in Britain for expressing their view?

Anjem Choudary? Although his view involved support for a prescribed organisation... 


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Who's been thrown in jail in Britain for expressing their view?

Peter Sutcliffe believed the voice of God told him to top all those women in the seventies

Edited by Shadow

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7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Who's been thrown in jail in Britain for expressing their view?

Jonathan Aitken believed the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play would keep him out of priz, that and being mates with the PM. 

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Abu Hamza al-Masri, was jailed for expressing his views?


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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9 minutes ago, Shadow said:

You are still not answering the simple question, what do you think liberal means? 

Everything else in your post is just noise and strawmen. 

I’ve answered your question in my previous comment. It obviously wasn’t what you were hoping it would be which is why you’re ignoring it 

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Just now, Yorkshire Knight said:

One example, the woman who ‘misgendered’ someone 

You said thrown in jail right?


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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2 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

One example, the woman who ‘misgendered’ someone 

and the guy who re-tweeted the limerick. Don't forget that martyr too.

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

and the guy who re-tweeted the limerick. Don't forget that martyr too.

How many years did he get?


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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3 minutes ago, Shadow said:

The fact that it even went that far shows the path we’re on which is to an authoritarian society. If the left could throw people in jail due to their views, they certainly would. There is plenty of evidence to support the existence of this radical mindset. Unopposed cultural Marxism with severe penalties for opponents is the end game here

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3 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

I’ve answered your question in my previous comment. It obviously wasn’t what you were hoping it would be which is why you’re ignoring it 

No, you really haven't. You've brought American left politics into it, you've built strawman argued against them and told us why Far Left politics aren'tthe same as Liberal politics but you haven't actuall told us what you believe Liberal means.

You've also made your usual crop of entirely unfounded and unsupported claims, such as the "woman jailed for misgendering someone" lie. 

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1 minute ago, Shadow said:

No, you really haven't. You've brought American left politics into it, you've built strawman argued against them and told us why Far Left politics aren'tthe same as Liberal politics but you haven't actuall told us what you believe Liberal means.

You've also made your usual crop of entirely unfounded and unsupported claims, such as the "woman jailed for misgendering someone" lie. 

Do I really need to tell you what it means? I’m sure you could google the definition but like I said, it’s not in line with the actions of today’s liberals. 

The first reports about that story does indeed say that she was initially jailed for it 

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5 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

The fact that it even went that far shows the path we’re on which is to an authoritarian society. If the left could throw people in jail due to their views, they certainly would. There is plenty of evidence to support the existence of this radical mindset. Unopposed cultural Marxism with severe penalties for opponents is the end game here

It could get as far as no further action being taken shows we are on a path to authoritatianism.

That my friend is doubleplusungood. 

  • Haha 2

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