Are international conferences the future of Super League?

[Manfred Mann]

Toronto Wolfpack looks certain to be part of Super League very soon. That was true even before Ian Lenagan's recent statement. But Lenagan's interview with the Illawarra Mercury suggests that Toulouse and New York are also part of the calculations of Super League club chairmen for the expansion of Super League in very the near future.

Eric Perez has in the past suggested Montreal and Hamilton in Canada, and New York and Boston in the USA, are interested in bids for rugby league teams joining the British structure, with the ultimate goal of joining Super League. Apart from Toronto's rapid emergence and success, nothing has yet panned out in all of these proposals. But Lenagan suggests that Super League are interested in the idea. The question is how does this work financially, apart from having a billionaire backer?

It seems to me that two things need to happen.

The first is that Sky must, in its next contract if not earlier, start paying the RFL/Super League more money for a sporting competition that will soon have three more famous international cities participating. The Super League "product" will, when these clubs are added, cease to be an overwhelmingly regional game (the M62 region of northern England, plus Catalans). With the already proposed expansion Super League will remain a majority M62 competition, but with a new international dimension. That will make Super League more valuable to Sky, and thus justify a richer contract, as well as make it  easier for the Super League to attract new sponsors, and wealthier ones.

The second thing that must happen is that the RFL must be open to the further expansion of the French and north American presence in Super League within the next ten years. This expansion is so that there can be created separate French and north American conferences within the Super League competition. In the conference system the members of each conference plays the other members twice, while playing other Super League clubs once each season. The conference system is important because it can create local derbies within France and north America, which will increase public interest in the new teams. More important it will create sufficient teams and create frequent enough local games to attract a commercial TV contract in that country, and thus new revenue streams from the TV company and from local corporate sponsorship. I would propose that the conferences have to contain at least four teams, but preferably six, from each of France and north America. That will be enough to give attention to the game in the national media, and among the general population of sports fans of each country.

For France the four team conference should be Catalans, Toulouse, Avignon and Paris. The six team enhancement should come from two out of Lyon (my first choice), Marseille, Montpellier and Bordeaux. Probably with four teams, but certainly with six, French national media will start to pay attention to rugby league.

For the USA the four team conference should come from Toronto, New York, Montreal and Boston. The six team enhancement should come from two out of Philadelphia, Jacksonville and Chicago. I know that Hamilton in Canada has already been proposed as a future bid, but it seems to me that Hamilton lacks the international name recognition that will attract many more corporate sponsors. Montreal -- the original second Canadian expansion team originally proposed by Eric Perez -- is a much bigger city and has a much better international profile than Hamilton, and that would be great for attracting corporate sponsors.

With those conferences regularly televised, there could be further expansion in either France or north America, as the attractiveness of the game creates more demands for new clubs coming from new fans, including some multi-millionaire or billionaire prospective owners. But even without further expansion conferences will certainly give more attractive "product" that is appealing to Sky and other British, French and north American television networks.

Meanwhile, all the international expansion should encourage Super League to find a place for London in the British part of the premier rugby league competition. Britain should have its national capital and biggest city represented in a newly international competition.

[Bearman]

All the signs are there will be a lot less money coming from Sky next time around.

[Alffi 7]

2 hours ago, Bearman said:

All the signs are there will be a lot less money coming from Sky next time around.

What signs are these?

[Southerner80]

2 hours ago, Bearman said:

All the signs are there will be a lot less money coming from Sky next time around.

That would be pretty awful for RL...if it happens as how is the game to maintain itself with less wadges against the pressure of union and the NRL?

[Bearman]

27 minutes ago, Alffi 7 said:

What signs are these?

Its generally accepted that viewing habits are changing.  More people streaming and less subscribing. That is why Sky have recently introduced Arena for "minor" sports and why RL has been moved there.

I was talking to a group of well known RL journalists the other week and the consensus was Sky themselves havent got the the money they used to have. They have lost out to the new kids on the block, BT for example  who have distorted the market and are themselves now struggling.

 

[Bearman]

Its also why the Superleague cartel are manoeuvring to keep them same share of an ever shrinking pie at the expense of the lowere league clubs.

[Bearman]

22 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Id suggest that the RL journalists havent got the faintest idea.

BT isnt the threat to sky. Other mediums are.

I would be very surprised if there wasnt an increase in the next RL tv deal. I would be utterly astounded if there was anything like a substantial decrease.

Sky not only have to compete with BT, but they now have to compete with Amazon, Google, Facebook, Netflix, and not only do they have to compete with these behemoths they have to compete with the 'freemium' option of selling a package for a much smaller amount to an FTA broadcaster and making the difference back through their own subscription streaming service (or a mixture of one or more of these)

I hope you are right.

Time will tell.

[yipyee]

RL need to bundle packages like football and sell one bundle to a free to air channel. One advantage that overseas clubs should bring is new markets so that will generate extra revenue, this would also cut sky's bills as they would not have to create their own content (like they do with catalans) and therefore reduce their overheads and create more live game availability.

[themainbrace]

1 hour ago, Bearman said:

Its also why the Superleague cartel are manoeuvring to keep them same share of an ever shrinking pie at the expense of the lowere league clubs.

With respect Bearman the pie is growing not shrinking that's the reality.  Our current TV deal is the biggest we've ever had and our sponsorship income has gone up year on year.

You also said the TV money is going to go down with the next contract but that's exactly what a lot of people said before we signed this contract.

I do share your worry about some of the comments on lower league funding.  Scrapping the small amount of funding League 1 teams get is small minded and does nothing to grow the sport.

[Adelaide Tiger]

Back to the OP and I dont mind putting my head above the parapet to be shot at.

RL reminds me of the time long, long ago when villages existed in isolation.  People were wary of their neighbours.  But eventually they came together and formed a town, then a city etc.

IMHO RL is a village that has had approaches from other villages but is still unsure as to whether they should integrate or stay as they are.

I see that with posters on here.

Some posters on here wish to cling onto the existing 12 team model where teams can only progess into SL at the expense of other clubs.  Are they right, we don't know.

Other posters  - myself included - are looking at the next 20 to 30 years and see the Conference model as a possible way forward.  Are we right? We don't know.

In 20 years time when hopefully my daughters are wiping my arrse and feeding me pureed food and looking for the insurance policies and a cheap Aged Care Facility we could have, based on the existing spread of RL, a Conference model where we have at least one or maybe two conferences in Canada, America, UK, France and the Balkans.  And then we may not ..... we will never know if we do not give it a go.

 

[Mark S]

11 hours ago, Alffi 7 said:

What signs are these?

Good old fashioned Rugby League negativity!

[JoneslessBishop]

Agreed Manfred, and shamelessly posting from another string:

 

A 14 team SL seems the best way to accommodate new International teams (with a sky approval) until the 2021 broadcast deal, unless they make it via the  Super 8s.

Perez has suggested 5-6 teams within 8 years. So phase the 2021 deal until 2025 and the NA World Cup. Then split into conferences, 1 Heritage 1 Trans Atlantic, with the French teams (Montreal like), London (all like) and maybe Dublin (NYC and Boston like). Each conference play home and away against themselves, and once against cross conference. So no heritage local rivalries or teams need to be materially lost. 

There could be 1 broadcast partner, or ones that chose to focus on their own geographies conference. 

So no current teams need to be threatened, just have significant new income streams.

[Mark S]

I can envisage a whole new governing body and international competition being set up, leaving the miserable flat cappers here in the UK to either either and die or go back to being part time. 

[dhw]

17 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Id suggest that the RL journalists havent got the faintest idea.

BT isnt the threat to sky. Other mediums are.

I would be very surprised if there wasnt an increase in the next RL tv deal. I would be utterly astounded if there was anything like a substantial decrease.

Sky not only have to compete with BT, but they now have to compete with Amazon, Google, Facebook, Netflix, and not only do they have to compete with these behemoths they have to compete with the 'freemium' option of selling a package for a much smaller amount to an FTA broadcaster and making the difference back through their own subscription streaming service (or a mixture of one or more of these)

In terms of the viewing rating figures, the market share for sports is falling and most likely will continue to do so.  That has already caused Sky to rethink the we they package things. This maybe why the RL journalists mentioned believe there will be a reduced offer for the next contract, in addition to this SL clubs have been more proactive about sounding out about generating more income. So  I would suggest they have a better than most. The likes of Google, Facebook and Netflix are not new arrivals in terms of providing content. Though in terms of competing with live sports coverage they are not direct competitors, they are more relevant to the entertainment, documentary, films. 

[ChrisL2]

[Big Picture]

10 hours ago, JoneslessBishop said:

Agreed Manfred, and shamelessly posting from another string:

A 14 team SL seems the best way to accommodate new International teams (with a sky approval) until the 2021 broadcast deal, unless they make it via the  Super 8s.

Perez has suggested 5-6 teams within 8 years. So phase the 2021 deal until 2025 and the NA World Cup. Then split into conferences, 1 Heritage 1 Trans Atlantic, with the French teams (Montreal like), London (all like) and maybe Dublin (NYC and Boston like). Each conference play home and away against themselves, and once against cross conference. So no heritage local rivalries or teams need to be materially lost. 

There could be 1 broadcast partner, or ones that chose to focus on their own geographies conference. 

So no current teams need to be threatened, just have significant new income streams.

So the new teams have to travel back and forth across the Atlantic regularly, and the traditional ones get to play in the same time zone most of the time, how's that a level playing field?  Will the new ones still have to put up with just being guests (as they are now) too??

[JoneslessBishop]

The North American teams are already bought into travel. This model allows them to have significant periods in North America as well. Similarly the European teams in the Trans Atlantic Conference would have lefty of time in Europe playing each other and cross-conference games with the Heritage teams. Ponding hopping is undertaken in 3-4 week blocks like Toronto.

If it is the players you are concerned about, they have the choice of this glamorous jet set lifestyle, or securing a contract with a heritage team.

If it’s the fans, they stil get all their home games, Reb chance to travel, and it’s not like Catalan or London have swelled crowds in the north significantly.

If its sporting fairness you are concerned about, teams in the TranAtalntic Confermece are in the same boat, so a level playing field to get to the play-offs against Heritage teams.

it isn’t my decision that Catalan aren’t RFL members. Would make sense all clubs become members, maybe after say a 5 year period.

[Allora]

On 2/8/2018 at 1:12 AM, Manfred Mann said:

Toronto Wolfpack looks certain to be part of Super League very soon. That was true even before Ian Lenagan's recent statement. But Lenagan's interview with the Illawarra Mercury suggests that Toulouse and New York are also part of the calculations of Super League club chairmen for the expansion of Super League in very the near future.

Eric Perez has in the past suggested Montreal and Hamilton in Canada, and New York and Boston in the USA, are interested in bids for rugby league teams joining the British structure, with the ultimate goal of joining Super League. Apart from Toronto's rapid emergence and success, nothing has yet panned out in all of these proposals. But Lenagan suggests that Super League are interested in the idea. The question is how does this work financially, apart from having a billionaire backer?

It seems to me that two things need to happen.

The first is that Sky must, in its next contract if not earlier, start paying the RFL/Super League more money for a sporting competition that will soon have three more famous international cities participating. The Super League "product" will, when these clubs are added, cease to be an overwhelmingly regional game (the M62 region of northern England, plus Catalans). With the already proposed expansion Super League will remain a majority M62 competition, but with a new international dimension. That will make Super League more valuable to Sky, and thus justify a richer contract, as well as make it  easier for the Super League to attract new sponsors, and wealthier ones.

The second thing that must happen is that the RFL must be open to the further expansion of the French and north American presence in Super League within the next ten years. This expansion is so that there can be created separate French and north American conferences within the Super League competition. In the conference system the members of each conference plays the other members twice, while playing other Super League clubs once each season. The conference system is important because it can create local derbies within France and north America, which will increase public interest in the new teams. More important it will create sufficient teams and create frequent enough local games to attract a commercial TV contract in that country, and thus new revenue streams from the TV company and from local corporate sponsorship. I would propose that the conferences have to contain at least four teams, but preferably six, from each of France and north America. That will be enough to give attention to the game in the national media, and among the general population of sports fans of each country.

For France the four team conference should be Catalans, Toulouse, Avignon and Paris. The six team enhancement should come from two out of Lyon (my first choice), Marseille, Montpellier and Bordeaux. Probably with four teams, but certainly with six, French national media will start to pay attention to rugby league.

For the USA the four team conference should come from Toronto, New York, Montreal and Boston. The six team enhancement should come from two out of Philadelphia, Jacksonville and Chicago. I know that Hamilton in Canada has already been proposed as a future bid, but it seems to me that Hamilton lacks the international name recognition that will attract many more corporate sponsors. Montreal -- the original second Canadian expansion team originally proposed by Eric Perez -- is a much bigger city and has a much better international profile than Hamilton, and that would be great for attracting corporate sponsors.

With those conferences regularly televised, there could be further expansion in either France or north America, as the attractiveness of the game creates more demands for new clubs coming from new fans, including some multi-millionaire or billionaire prospective owners. But even without further expansion conferences will certainly give more attractive "product" that is appealing to Sky and other British, French and north American television networks.

Meanwhile, all the international expansion should encourage Super League to find a place for London in the British part of the premier rugby league competition. Britain should have its national capital and biggest city represented in a newly international competition.

Without Foundations, Structure and Junior development on a large scale you will get nothing beyond the short term.

A very poor version of the Harlem Globe Trotters will not last a few years let alone a decade IMO.

I can not believe how many people are buying into this new "Vision" of overseas teams suddenly lining up to play our sport.

I thought the Catalan team were struggling after many years in Super League and were very nearly demoted last year even though they have been stacked with Australians since their inception.

You can fool some of the people some of the time.....