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PTB - back to how it should be?


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1 hour ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Another change along with proper ptbs should be to outlaw running from dummy half. It is boring and leads to cheap metres and hard to defend tries.

Much better if at least one pass is required from dummy half

Can’t agree with you there ! The scoot from dummy half when you’re on the front foot is a great attacking weapon and I love seeing the 9 running away and hitting the line 

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2 hours ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Another change along with proper ptbs should be to outlaw running from dummy half. It is boring and leads to cheap metres and hard to defend tries.

Much better if at least one pass is required from dummy half

A scoot from the hooker is part of the game,never boring.

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9 minutes ago, SL17 said:

A scoot from the hooker is part of the game,never boing.

I don't know about "never", but a player who can make a really effective break from there is a devastating weapon, and I wouldn't like to see it outlawed.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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17 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

I don't know about "never", but a player who can make a really effective break from there is a devastating weapon, and I wouldn't like to see it outlawed.

Markers set right,the scoot would have little effect.

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11 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Markers set right,the scoot would have little effect.

Markers set right, the scoot would have to be really good to make good ground. And striving for excellence is something that RL should be all about. The best will still do damage from that starting point, while the lesser players will be brought down quickly and discouraged from doing it too often. Lesser defences will still be punished by an average scoot, but that's their fault for not being sufficiently alert and in position by the time the PTB happens.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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I did notice during the Womens Rugby League World Cup that women players tended to play the ball with the foot rather than rolling the ball back. Still quick play achieved

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4 hours ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Another change along with proper ptbs should be to outlaw running from dummy half. It is boring and leads to cheap metres and hard to defend tries.

Much better if at least one pass is required from dummy half

Right with you there. Nothing duller than a team running repeatedly from dummy half. Even worse than five drives from first receiver followed by a kick.

In this afternoon's Dewsbury-London game, referee Tom Crashley awarded penalties against a player for failing to get to his feet to play the ball and another for failing to play the ball with a foot. Good to see.

In my experience, there is better play-the-ball execution in the NCL than in the semi-pro/pro game.

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2 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

It leads to cheap metres and hard to defend tries if you are consistently playing the ball quickly. If you're playing the ball slowly, it does neither. Good teams play the ball quickly, bad teams play the ball slowly. So what you're saying is good teams find cheap metres and hard to defend tries, and bad teams don't? 

If correct play the balls are enforced they won't be as fast as they are now, and it tacklers are given a couple of seconds before they let the ball carrier get up they'll take the same time as they used to in the early-mid 1990s.  Defenses will then be set more often than now, so those cheap metres won't be as easy to come by.

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2 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Markers set right, the scoot would have to be really good to make good ground. And striving for excellence is something that RL should be all about. The best will still do damage from that starting point, while the lesser players will be brought down quickly and discouraged from doing it too often. Lesser defences will still be punished by an average scoot, but that's their fault for not being sufficiently alert and in position by the time the PTB happens.

Often an incorrect PTB  gives the advantage to the scoot..If played correctly,most markers would be in position.

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2 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Often an incorrect PTB  gives the advantage to the scoot..If played correctly,most markers would be in position.

I agree completely, but it would still allow the very best to shine. Rugby League isn't supposed to be easy, but when a player can do the difficult things right, it should be rewarded. We've all seen some great scoots, and not all of them were against sloppy markers.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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I would like the ptb rule  to allow a player to  not backheel the ball so long as he is freestanding when he rolls it back between his legs.

I'd also like to see a lot more fulllbacks and wingers getting 10 minutes in the sin bin for holding down an attacker who they have tackled after the attacker has made a clean break.

Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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12 hours ago, Big Picture said:

If correct play the balls are enforced they won't be as fast as they are now, and it tacklers are given a couple of seconds before they let the ball carrier get up they'll take the same time as they used to in the early-mid 1990s.  Defenses will then be set more often than now, so those cheap metres won't be as easy to come by.

It wouldn’t be a couple of seconds, more likely a fraction of a second, but it is these fractions that count and every top class coach will exploite the rule and the referee as best they can.

Right now, the lack of a PTB  in the pro game is compounding other issues around the ruck.  

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27 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

It wouldn’t be a couple of seconds, more likely a fraction of a second, but it is these fractions that count and every top class coach will exploite the rule and the referee as best they can.

Right now, the lack of a PTB  in the pro game is compounding other issues around the ruck.  

Yes I tend to agree. Markers not square, returning players to the defensive line often penalised when the initial infringement is the PTB. But is completely ignored.

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36 minutes ago, redjonn said:

It came as a real surprise to me missus whose only been going a few years when Garbutt of Leeds always PTB correctly when he first arrived... as she hadn't realised that it was what was supposed to happen.

 Dayne Weston at leigh was a pleasure to watch, he would always get to his feet proper before putting the ball down and playing it with his foot.

Its the little things in life that do it for me lol

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5 hours ago, jpmc said:

 Dayne Weston at leigh was a pleasure to watch, he would always get to his feet proper before putting the ball down and playing it with his foot.

Its the little things in life that do it for me lol

As did Anthony gelling at Wigan.

The original post wording is interesting - "back to how it should be".  When was it actually as it 'should be' according to the rules?  Certainly not when I began watching the sport live in the 1960s.  I recently watched some of the Wigan -v- Hunslet cup final of, I think 1964 or '65, on YouTube.  What I noticed about the PTBs was (a) an inclination to play the ball with the back of the leg as it dropped towards the floor (but as often as not with the calf before the ball reached terra firma) and (b) the disinclination of the tackler to move back; the ball carrier got up vertically  exactly at the point where the tackle was made.  I liked seeing (b), but was less keen on (a) which was very messy (if quick), and probably had much to do with not affording the marker the chance -then legal I think - to strike for the ball.

In the current day game, I feel the tackled players are given too much leeway.   They seem to think they have a divine right to step forward by a pace or two, and sometimes a little sideways; in one televised game last season, I even saw a player do the latter while his marker stayed in the line of tackle.  Outcome?  The marker penalised for not being square.  So if moving off the mark is allowed, say so in the rules!  Don't let it become a permitted, but theoretically illegal, way for the tackled player to avoid his marker.

But above all, as an earlier poster noted, let's just decide how the PTB should be conducted and then right the rules accordingly.  And as a maxim, that should, I believe, apply to all aspects of play in all sports!

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In the above post, by 'right the rules accordingly' I of course meant 'write the rules accordingly'  Or did I...?

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18 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

As did Anthony gelling at Wigan.

The original post wording is interesting - "back to how it should be".  When was it actually as it 'should be' according to the rules?  Certainly not when I began watching the sport live in the 1960s.  I recently watched some of the Wigan -v- Hunslet cup final of, I think 1964 or '65, on YouTube.  What I noticed about the PTBs was (a) an inclination to play the ball with the back of the leg as it dropped towards the floor (but as often as not with the calf before the ball reached terra firma) and (b) the disinclination of the tackler to move back; the ball carrier got up vertically  exactly at the point where the tackle was made.  I liked seeing (b), but was less keen on (a) which was very messy (if quick), and probably had much to do with not affording the marker the chance -then legal I think - to strike for the ball.

In the current day game, I feel the tackled players are given too much leeway.   They seem to think they have a divine right to step forward by a pace or two, and sometimes a little sideways; in one televised game last season, I even saw a player do the latter while his marker stayed in the line of tackle.  Outcome?  The marker penalised for not being square.  So if moving off the mark is allowed, say so in the rules!  Don't let it become a permitted, but theoretically illegal, way for the tackled player to avoid his marker.

But above all, as an earlier poster noted, let's just decide how the PTB should be conducted and then right the rules accordingly.  And as a maxim, that should, I believe, apply to all aspects of play in all sports!

Regarding moving off the mark.  Yes, it is subtly in the Rules in that it says the tackled player should regain his feet, face the oppositions goal line and PTB.  Nothing else as it doesn’t need to.  Iirc the tackled player shouldn’t PTB until the ruck has been cleared either!

The whole PTB area needs to be looked at as its becoming a common area to see who can cheat best.  

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1 minute ago, Lowdesert said:

Regarding moving off the mark.  Yes, it is subtly in the Rules in that it says the tackled player should regain his feet, face the oppositions goal line and PTB.  Nothing else as it doesn’t need to.  Iirc the tackled player shouldn’t PTB until the ruck has been cleared either!

The whole PTB area needs to be looked at as its becoming a common area to see who can cheat best.  

Wholly agree, Lowdesert.  And, as I say, once it has been agreed how the PTB should be conducted, write the rules to accurately reflect that vision!

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On 2/11/2018 at 5:04 PM, Lobbygobbler said:

Another change along with proper ptbs should be to outlaw running from dummy half. It is boring and leads to cheap metres and hard to defend tries.

Much better if at least one pass is required from dummy half

And go back to unlimited tackles maybe?

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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The attackers are generally moving off the mark all over whether its forward or to the side

Its obviously being coached, and IMO it should be stopped somehow. Easier said than done, but its another area contributing to the messy ptb

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On 12/02/2018 at 5:30 AM, Wolford6 said:

I would like the ptb rule  to allow a player to  not backheel the ball so long as he is freestanding when he rolls it back between his legs.

I'd also like to see a lot more fulllbacks and wingers getting 10 minutes in the sin bin for holding down an attacker who they have tackled after the attacker has made a clean break.

This. As long as the player playing the ball is up on his own two feet, what is the purpose of touching the ball with the foot? It's just a final relic of the old rucks and mauls that used to blight our game and which now thankfully blight another game. 

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To be honest, why does it matter if the ball is played with the foot or not? Why is the specific action chosen in the rules? 

The whole point of the play the ball is to restart play after a tackle. We want quick ones because it's a quick game. If players aren't using the foot, and people are complaining that rules should be followed, just adjust the rule? I honestly couldn't care less whether it is or isn't.

For me, the attacker needs to get to his feet (both feet must have touched the floor at some point). The ball then needs to be placed on the floor, go under a foot and be rolled behind him. Simple and not many ways you can whinge that it "wasn't done right".

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