Lowdesert Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said: To be honest, why does it matter if the ball is played with the foot or not? Why is the specific action chosen in the rules? The whole point of the play the ball is to restart play after a tackle. We want quick ones because it's a quick game. If players aren't using the foot, and people are complaining that rules should be followed, just adjust the rule? I honestly couldn't care less whether it is or isn't. For me, the attacker needs to get to his feet (both feet must have touched the floor at some point). The ball then needs to be placed on the floor, go under a foot and be rolled behind him. Simple and not many ways you can whinge that it "wasn't done right". Fair enough but I think your missing the point. As I understand it the NRL are trying to re-establish the correct rules around it as well as the action. They’re not whinging, but feel the area is contributing to unfair advantage as well as confusion for players,refs and coaches. Not concerned with speccies. The rules are clear, but very few players or Refs are playing to them. None of them are whinging either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Lowdesert said: Fair enough but I think your missing the point. As I understand it the NRL are trying to re-establish the correct rules around it as well as the action. They’re not whinging, but feel the area is contributing to unfair advantage as well as confusion for players,refs and coaches. Not concerned with speccies. The rules are clear, but very few players or Refs are playing to them. None of them are whinging either. Are they not trying to re-establish the correct rules because people are whinging though? If no one was whinging, they wouldn't bother trying to change/correct it. It's something that gets whinged about all the time. Instead of clamping down on it every now and then (resulting in milking of penalties at every chance), why not just completely amend it? It's not working. Simplify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 they should have to stand up straight - put the non ball carrying hand on their head, spin left twice and right once , recite the lords prayer then roll it under the foot making full contact with every stud as were watching a boot cam in the corner of the screen. see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 hours ago, graveyard johnny said: they should have to stand up straight - put the non ball carrying hand on their head, spin left twice and right once , recite the lords prayer then roll it under the foot making full contact with every stud as were watching a boot cam in the corner of the screen. Exactly my point. It doesn't need to be a prescriptive recital of a movement like everyone seems to be complaining about. The ball just needs to roll under the foot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobbygobbler Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 On 12/02/2018 at 8:19 PM, Blind side johnny said: And go back to unlimited tackles maybe? Nope - 4 tackles only. Would encourage teams to do more with the ball on tackles 1 and 2 rather than driving the ball in with no passing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Even the much vaunted NRL Champions were doing five drives and a kick this morning. The rules should award an extra tackle for a clean catch to encourage a bit more diversity in the standard tactics. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 9 hours ago, Lobbygobbler said: Nope - 4 tackles only. Would encourage teams to do more with the ball on tackles 1 and 2 rather than driving the ball in with no passing This would simply make the game even more defence oriented, in my view. Whenever you consider changing a rule you should first think of how coaches will get around or nullify the change. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 13/02/2018 at 6:57 PM, Wellsy4HullFC said: Are they not trying to re-establish the correct rules because people are whinging though? If no one was whinging, they wouldn't bother trying to change/correct it. It's something that gets whinged about all the time. Instead of clamping down on it every now and then (resulting in milking of penalties at every chance), why not just completely amend it? It's not working. Simplify it. No, to the first line. Agreed some whinge but the NRL aren’t. They just want to reinforce the rules around the PTB. Please note: There are several rules. Melbourne were far too fast for Leeds yesterday. The spectacle and game was great to see. Melbourne were playing the ball correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlno1 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 If they'd enforced the rules in the first place we wouldn't be trying to do it now. Is there any other sport that blatantly ignores the rules as they are written? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, rlno1 said: If they'd enforced the rules in the first place we wouldn't be trying to do it now. Is there any other sport that blatantly ignores the rules as they are written? Pretty much every single professional sport on the entire planet, I'd imagine. And quite a few of the amateur ones too. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobbygobbler Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 8 hours ago, Blind side johnny said: This would simply make the game even more defence oriented, in my view. Whenever you consider changing a rule you should first think of how coaches will get around or nullify the change. Can you explain why? If you have less tackles surely you will float the ball more in the first few tackes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/13/2018 at 4:20 PM, Wellsy4HullFC said: To be honest, why does it matter if the ball is played with the foot or not? Why is the specific action chosen in the rules? The whole point of the play the ball is to restart play after a tackle. We want quick ones because it's a quick game. If players aren't using the foot, and people are complaining that rules should be followed, just adjust the rule? I honestly couldn't care less whether it is or isn't. For me, the attacker needs to get to his feet (both feet must have touched the floor at some point). The ball then needs to be placed on the floor, go under a foot and be rolled behind him. Simple and not many ways you can whinge that it "wasn't done right". The reason for the action goes back to the origins of the play the ball. The PTB was a scrum between two players with both being allowed to strike for the ball once it hit the floor. Before the PTB all tackles were restarted with a full scrum. When it was decided that the PTB would be uncontested, the law governing it still maintained that the ball had to be hooked from the 2 man 'scrum'. The reasoning being that it is a very controlled restart otherwise you have a union style ruck where the player just releases the ball and its then a free for all. Its a way to create a semblance of order. The continual speeding up of the ruck I think has been detrimental to the game, the Aussies seem to have realised this and hence they are going for a stricter control this year. They have the advantage as they have already cleaned up a lot of the nonsense that goes on here during a PTB. We really do need to get all the messing about at the PTB out of the game here, the main reason for it is because players can get a quick PTB by the foot touching rule not being imposed so the defence wants another way to slow it down. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobbygobbler Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 The other option could be to simply have an uncontested "release of the ball" or pass back on the floor or stood up. I'm sure Union will do this soon. Personally I would be open to seeing 4 uncontested recycles (a ptb or release) followed by a ruck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinskolar Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Either enforce the rules, or change the rules. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 2018-2-13 at 11:20 AM, Wellsy4HullFC said: To be honest, why does it matter if the ball is played with the foot or not? Why is the specific action chosen in the rules? The whole point of the play the ball is to restart play after a tackle. We want quick ones because it's a quick game. If players aren't using the foot, and people are complaining that rules should be followed, just adjust the rule? I honestly couldn't care less whether it is or isn't. For me, the attacker needs to get to his feet (both feet must have touched the floor at some point). The ball then needs to be placed on the floor, go under a foot and be rolled behind him. Simple and not many ways you can whinge that it "wasn't done right". It matters because RL is a type of football, therefore the ball needs to be put back in play by the foot for that to remain true. You might want the quickest restart possible, but some of us don't. I for one want to see the tacklers always given a couple of seconds to release the ball carrier so that the defenders have time to get onside and the attackers have to work for their metres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 11 hours ago, Big Picture said: It matters because RL is a type of football, therefore the ball needs to be put back in play by the foot for that to remain true. You might want the quickest restart possible, but some of us don't. I for one want to see the tacklers always given a couple of seconds to release the ball carrier so that the defenders have time to get onside and the attackers have to work for their metres. You do talk some tripe sometimes! A throw-in in football, line-out in union, the scrum, recycling the ball at the ruck, the snap on American football... Need I go on? If you don't know something, don't just make it up! How do you measure the couple of seconds? Why a couple of seconds? Why do the defenders not have to work hard to prevent metres? I don't mind controlling the ruck. I like the wrestling element to the game and find it a great skill to have to remain on your front or to "turtle" a player in the tackle. You shouldn't just be given free time unless it's a proper restart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 14 hours ago, Padge said: The reason for the action goes back to the origins of the play the ball. The PTB was a scrum between two players with both being allowed to strike for the ball once it hit the floor. Before the PTB all tackles were restarted with a full scrum. When it was decided that the PTB would be uncontested, the law governing it still maintained that the ball had to be hooked from the 2 man 'scrum'. The reasoning being that it is a very controlled restart otherwise you have a union style ruck where the player just releases the ball and its then a free for all. Its a way to create a semblance of order. The continual speeding up of the ruck I think has been detrimental to the game, the Aussies seem to have realised this and hence they are going for a stricter control this year. They have the advantage as they have already cleaned up a lot of the nonsense that goes on here during a PTB. We really do need to get all the messing about at the PTB out of the game here, the main reason for it is because players can get a quick PTB by the foot touching rule not being imposed so the defence wants another way to slow it down. Thanks for the history lesson. It's good to know how it evolved over time. Maybe time for another evolution? If the play the ball needs slowing, I can't see the foot touch making much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 20 hours ago, scotchy1 said: I agree entirely. Im not sure what the roll back with the foot achieves. the reason the ruck is a mess is largely because of the defence doing what they can to earn extra seconds. Let the attacker just roll the ball back to restart play, stop the laying on and attempts to slow the ptb, but allow the markers to stand side by side to limit the running from dummy half. It's an interesting concept. A bit more like grid iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said: It's an interesting concept. A bit more like grid iron. Yes,would only add more to the game of twister at the ruck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakefield Ram Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Stopping tacklers lying on is another rule they should enforce. Together these would make for a better faster game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said: Stopping tacklers lying on is another rule they should enforce. Together these would make for a better faster game. in my opinion this desperate need to speed up the game is the biggest problem with our sport, it's the reason the ptb is such a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobbygobbler Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said: Stopping tacklers lying on is another rule they should enforce. Together these would make for a better faster game. Most fans want close games not fast games (which usually end up with huge one sided scorelines). nothing wrong with regular scorelines like 10-8 rather than 42-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:40 PM, Lobbygobbler said: Nope - 4 tackles only. Would encourage teams to do more with the ball on tackles 1 and 2 rather than driving the ball in with no passing Before the 6 tackle rule we had 4 tackles, it was useless that's why it was changed to 6. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The problem note appears to be some fans want a faster PTB and some want a slower one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said: The problem note appears to be some fans want a faster PTB and some want a slower one. The problem is that coaches want the ball played before the opposition's defence is set. The quick play the ball gives the attacking team the opportunity to make easy yards. A slower play the ball means that coaches will have to think of ways of getting around an organised defence, something coaches don't like because it involves taking risks. Enforcing proper PTBs will slow the game down, player having to get to his feet, having to concentrate on actually playing the ball with the foot. It will only be slowed fractionally, but we play a game of inches not yards. It is that fraction that the attacking team is trying to gain so they can take the easy yards option. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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