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No change to SL. P*** poor journalists speculation


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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Where will the Challenge Cup be played in 2025?

Ill give you a clue, at the same ground it has been when it has been available for decades now.

Yes, I think so too.

But that won't stop our trade papers, and our weekly columnists, putting forward their own views often with the support of people who do genuinely have a voice in the game.

And that, combined with a pretty weak RFL and a divided SL Directors' group, is the problem.

Not fans on a forum.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes, I think so too.

But that won't stop our trade papers, and our weekly columnists, putting forward their own views often with the support of people who do genuinely have a voice in the game.

And that, combined with a pretty weak RFL and a divided SL Directors' group, is the problem.

Not fans on a forum.

My point was that fans slate the authorities and then put forward their own solution which is rubbish.

What roughyedspud is advocatng is a weakening of your commercial position for little to no benefit. But that is positioned as a no-brainer.

The Cup Final venue is always known about anyway - this year was an exception as we were negotiating terms and the tickets went on sale later than usual due to a new ticketing system. Every other year the tickets are pretty much on sale the week after the final. Its not an issue, but it is spun into the RFL being incompetent and it being a major issue.

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4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

My point was that fans slate the authorities and then put forward their own solution which is rubbish.

What roughyedspud is advocatng is a weakening of your commercial position for little to no benefit. But that is positioned as a no-brainer.

The Cup Final venue is always known about anyway - this year was an exception as we were negotiating terms and the tickets went on sale later than usual due to a new ticketing system. Every other year the tickets are pretty much on sale the week after the final. Its not an issue, but it is spun into the RFL being incompetent and it being a major issue.

There is a great deal in this.

From what I have heard, Nigel Wood is a superb henchman and I mean that in a good way.  He will bang heads together and get things done.  What he is not is a great intellectual or overall visionary, but it meant he was a great partner to Richard Lewis and I suspect Richard Lewis would not have been as successful without him.

I agree the majority of fans will never be happy, because people have very different idea of what success looks like.  Even amongst the expansionists, there is a stark divide between the pessimists like mysef (We are DOOMED unless we change!  It is going to be painful!) and the optimists like DSK and Big Picture (Let's just strat new clubs and be huge!).

Then there are the people who expect the amateur game to revive, when further decline will soon mean the level of critical participation is going to be undermined in more and more places.  Then there are the ones who want there small semi-pro club to be able to compete with the best again.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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11 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I also think that the SL chairmen seem to get the blame for something that realistically has nothing to do with them. Things like the struggles of the lower leagues, the fall in amateur players........have pretty much no direct link to the SL chairmen. 

The way i see it there are only two possible positive outcomes. One is the strong leader who can unite and actually lead us positively and ambitiously..............

The lower leagues have struggled ever since the SKY deal in 1996 concentrated on funding a professional league. They went on to struggle when they were shut out of this league. SL chairmen cut dual reg deals to assist lower league clubs to survive. If SL does not survive the lower league clubs have no chance. Their fortunes are inextricably linked. 

SL club foundations are staffed and set up to support and develop the amateur game which links directly to the SL academies, again for you to say they have nothing to do with each other again defies all logic as usual.

I see you are going for the "Messiah" option, that majestic figure who can bang heads together and bridge the Atlantic. Eric Perez must be our leader!!

The SL chairmen on the whole have pumped a lot of money and time and care into the game, their own money, their own time, and this gives them a right to a say - a very big say. A say they have had since they opened up the Superleague (Europe) in 1996. 22 years and still surviving.

OK sometimes they don't agree but we get there. However to bring up this messiah thing for the umpteenth time is quite wearisome. Those who lead in Rugby league can only play the hand dealt, and should be judged on that. I thought Lewis did well to attempt expansion, once that didn't work because it could not work in the circumstances RL has historically found itself in, Wood always had a tough remit to follow that.

Anyway finally it is now understood the 14 clubs thing is  just the usual wishful thinking. The New York venture is reported as being "unlikely" as well. Maybe we can all sit back and enjoy the game rather than moaning about it and wishing it away across the ocean. 

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14 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

Mark Campbell, alluded to a similar viewpoint in this week's programme at Featherstone:

"There is lots of talk at the moment regarding the league structure, however every club signed up to it - and it runs until 2021, as agreed"

So the chairman of a club with dual-reg with Leeds is backing the Leeds chairman’s viewpoint. Given the beating that Hetherington took according to Rod Studd, mah e unsurprising he is leveraging all the support he can. 

 

If the powerblock that achived Wood’s removal from the board (not Hetherington, so Lenegan and Pearson?) is also in favour of 14 teams to achieve the internationalization of SL, can we assume the same majority and that maybe that decision is thus there and that the negotiations with Sky are underway? Nigel Wood is due to report back in his Toronto and NYC evaluations then, so we may have announcements by spring?

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11 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Anyway finally it is now understood the 14 clubs thing is  just the usual wishful thinking. The New York venture is reported as being "unlikely" as well. Maybe we can all sit back and enjoy the game rather than moaning about it and wishing it away across the ocean. 

Is it understood that 14 clubs is wishful thinking? Who by?

Where is it reported that NY is unlikely?

There was no one here who was not sitting back and enjoying the game Parky!

Rather than moaning eh, Parky.:laugh:

No one was wishing the game away across the ocean as more or less everyone posting here, although completely crazy, is level headed enough and experienced in this sport enough to know perfectly well what kind of things happen, look great and then die away. It seems only in your imagination is the sport going over the top over the Wolfpack and NY. The rest of us just think there's always room for more especially from exciting places.

I'm never quite sure what upsets you, and I'm only taking this from the tone of your posts, is it people disagreeing with you? When they don't agree with the pundits you quote? Maybe people not seeing the world the way you do? Perhaps it's just that it isn't yesterday anymore and you miss it? ( I can fully understand and identify with this one)

But don't you ever tire of being the everlasting party poop?

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Oxford said:

Everyone like Gary and refs  shouldn't just be attacked because they do have the games interests at heart. We all do, even the people we disagree with most on the forum.

We are TGG men apart! to paraphrase a good quote and signature on here.

 

10 minutes ago, Oxford said:

I'm never quite sure what upsets you, and I'm only taking this from the tone of your posts, is it people disagreeing with you? When they don't agree with the pundits you quote? Maybe people not seeing the world the way you do? Perhaps it's just that it isn't yesterday anymore and you miss it? ( I can fully understand and identify with this one)

But don't you ever tire of being the everlasting party poop?

Whatever happened between going to bed and getting up again Mr Oxford?

Last night it seems you were being benevolent to all, today seems like your sabre is flailing about in assassination mode.

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18 hours ago, Hopping Mad said:

The biggest problem with sports (and other) journalists is most have been made redundant. All that's left is kids, fresh from a useless 'media studies' course, being paid peanuts to produce 'churnalism'. That's why so much press release bilge is simply regurgitated, word for semi-literate word. There's nobody left to either check anything or rewrite it. The nature of journalism has changed because of lack of investment in talent and experience. It's the same with rugby league: field a team of youngsters, and they'll flounder.

The other thing I'd mention as important in regard to the above is the advent, over the last two decades or so, of the club press or media/PR officer. Essentially, clubs now want to manage how they are portrayed in the media. They can't do this if they allow journalists to speak to coaches, players and directors in an unchaperoned, unfettered fashion. Often, this control takes the form of quotes/information being obtainable only via a press officer, the press officer requesting submission of a list of prepared questions or the press officer 'sitting in' on interviews (advising the interviewee what should or should not be said). The press officer's key role is to deny the journalist direct access to the horse's mouth. Gone are the days when journalists had a contact book brimming with the home phone numbers of coaches, players and directors! And people wonder why coverage of sport in the media has become so miserably anodyne.

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1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

The lower leagues have struggled ever since the SKY deal in 1996 concentrated on funding a professional league. They went on to struggle when they were shut out of this league. SL chairmen cut dual reg deals to assist lower league clubs to survive. If SL does not survive the lower league clubs have no chance. Their fortunes are inextricably linked. 

SL club foundations are staffed and set up to support and develop the amateur game which links directly to the SL academies, again for you to say they have nothing to do with each other again defies all logic as usual.

I see you are going for the "Messiah" option, that majestic figure who can bang heads together and bridge the Atlantic. Eric Perez must be our leader!!

The SL chairmen on the whole have pumped a lot of money and time and care into the game, their own money, their own time, and this gives them a right to a say - a very big say. A say they have had since they opened up the Superleague (Europe) in 1996. 22 years and still surviving.

OK sometimes they don't agree but we get there. However to bring up this messiah thing for the umpteenth time is quite wearisome. Those who lead in Rugby league can only play the hand dealt, and should be judged on that. I thought Lewis did well to attempt expansion, once that didn't work because it could not work in the circumstances RL has historically found itself in, Wood always had a tough remit to follow that.

Anyway finally it is now understood the 14 clubs thing is  just the usual wishful thinking. The New York venture is reported as being "unlikely" as well. Maybe we can all sit back and enjoy the game rather than moaning about it and wishing it away across the ocean. 

What’s the basis that NYC is ‘unlikely’ Parky. If for next season in SL I would agree, but are you thinking more long term.

 

14 teams will only happen if Sky agree. However, if Pearson and Lenegan are just stringing along the idea of a more International SL to prevent a reduction in Sky revenues at 2021, don’t we have to deliver something. Even if Sky are suckered in with runour for 2021, they certainly wouldn’t believe anything SL said again if they didn’t deliver. I don’t believe that Lenegan or Pearson would be so short sighted 

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34 minutes ago, JoneslessBishop said:

What’s the basis that NYC is ‘unlikely’ Parky. If for next season in SL I would agree, but are you thinking more long term.

 

14 teams will only happen if Sky agree. However, if Pearson and Lenegan are just stringing along the idea of a more International SL to prevent a reduction in Sky revenues at 2021, don’t we have to deliver something. Even if Sky are suckered in with runour for 2021, they certainly wouldn’t believe anything SL said again if they didn’t deliver. I don’t believe that Lenegan or Pearson would be so short sighted 

Parky has been insistent that they were going to push six teams into Super League next year.  Now that he is conceding that this is a fabrication, he is claiming to be vindicated.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

 

Whatever happened between going to bed and getting up again Mr Oxford?

Last night it seems you were being benevolent to all, today seems like your sabre is flailing about in assassination mode.

Not at all slept well all is good it's just the Parky enigma!

Parky seems obstinately stuck but I'm fascinated by his posts with their assured fact stating qualities. I find his stance odd that's all but without people like him this place would probably be desolate and boring. Where I can't agree with him I don't understand where he's coming from that's all. At no point did I want to be belligerent just puzzled and questioning. 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

They cannot possibly make decisions for the benefit of the sport.  By definition, they can only serve the interests of their own club.

Because it's impossible to have two masters or ride two horses... well said Dave!

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Just Browny said:

Those are fairly embarrassing quotes, and not just on account of the laguage involved.

If it was so clear that there are to be no changes, those in charge could have put out a very clear statement that this was the case and that the structure will remain the same. They haven't been able to because, I.believe, they haven't yet decided. 

It is the job of journalists to unearth that clarity.

Is it not the job of the people who manage our game to ensure that such clarity is forthcoming? 

In the absence of clarity from any direction, then the journos will do what they do, make stuff up.

If they are not going to change anything, then come out and say so. If they are going to change something and they haven't quite decided what that change will be, then come out and say that. It's not all that difficult is it?

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1 hour ago, Hopping Mad said:

The other thing I'd mention as important in regard to the above is the advent, over the last two decades or so, of the club press or media/PR officer. Essentially, clubs now want to manage how they are portrayed in the media. They can't do this if they allow journalists to speak to coaches, players and directors in an unchaperoned, unfettered fashion. Often, this control takes the form of quotes/information being obtainable only via a press officer, the press officer requesting submission of a list of prepared questions or the press officer 'sitting in' on interviews (advising the interviewee what should or should not be said). The press officer's key role is to deny the journalist direct access to the horse's mouth. Gone are the days when journalists had a contact book brimming with the home phone numbers of coaches, players and directors! And people wonder why coverage of sport in the media has become so miserably anodyne.

Well, the press officer approach didn’t work in Hethringtons case.  Are we to assume also that Mascord asked GH if it was ok to issue the interview ‘as said’?  

The industrial language used and Rod Studd comments regarding the 9-3 vote hasn’t done Gary any favours either.

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15 hours ago, M j M said:

Since Hetherington knows the pitfalls and challenges of running both an expansion club and running a small club with tiny revenues, I imagine he is more cautious than most about exciting new opportunities in random locations.

As far as Leeds are concerned, to be perfectly blunt, I don't imagine there is any self-interest either way as the club's position in the top flight isn't likely to be challenged any time soon.

He's also done far more than most people realise to prop Bradford up in the past 4-5 years so knows about expansion but is also fully versed in the ability of big clubs to go pop in a spectacular manner.

He's seen the bright lights go out at Bradford whilst putting them on at Leeds.  I think we throw away his concerns at our peril.

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7 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Is it not the job of the people who manage our game to ensure that such clarity is forthcoming?  Yes!

In the absence of clarity from any direction, then the journos will do what they do, make stuff up. Really?

If they are not going to change anything, then come out and say so. If they are going to change something and they haven't quite decided what that change will be, then come out and say that. It's not all that difficult is it? Er I think they did the latter!

I think we're mostly talking about our patience levels at the moment which may have more to do with how quickly everything arrives and appears and is done now. Being immediately gratified by Amazon and Google etc has not helped us realise how long it takes 12 people to come to a decision about anything that they all agree on or even feel comfortable with.

If we took twelve posters, any twelve, on here we couldn't agree what time and date it was let alone how the future of our sport should look!

 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, roughyedspud said:

When the RFL don't setup longer term plans it does nothing but create the space for speculation..

For example,Every year we wonder where next year's magic,summer bash,CC final will be!

All the RFL needs to announce is that the CC Final is never moving,Blackpool has the summer bash for 5 years and Newcastle has magic for 5 years as its vital for the north east development strategy...now everyone crack on...

Also the fact that they seem way to quick to change competition formats cos they never get it right creates speculation..

What to stop speculation? Stop faffing about with the sport!

There's a lot in what you said here roughyed. Making lasting decisions also shows intent and purpose. The posters who are forever claiming we're a laughing stock all over the place when we're more or less invisible everywhere are only reacting to the number of changes we make in a season and they essentially never know what's going on. In other sports not only is it all made very clear but they know what's happening years and years in advance which makes it easier for fans to plan and for long term marketing to get bums on seats.

The only bit I disagree with is the idea that they never get it right as I've stated before God could give us a formula and Gabriel present us with the blueprints and we could be assured happiness, clarity and certainty forever ....... until it reached this forum and or the press and or Locky and Schoey on Backchat. Sometimes we have to hold our hands up for our responsibility in all this for never being happy with what we've got and either dreaming it's tomorrow or wishing it was yesterday!

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Is it not the job of the people who manage our game to ensure that such clarity is forthcoming? 

In the absence of clarity from any direction, then the journos will do what they do, make stuff up.

If they are not going to change anything, then come out and say so. If they are going to change something and they haven't quite decided what that change will be, then come out and say that. It's not all that difficult is it?

They have done exactly what you want.

He said: “The discussion is ongoing. I think the clubs are going to go into the season and do as well as they can, so it won’t affect any of that.

“Clearly the future of the sport is the bigger question, and that involves all the different stakeholders – commercial partners, broadcasters, they all need to be in that equation.”

When pressed on a timescale, and the prospect of getting to July or August without a solution, Rimmer was unmoved and said that clubs were in regular dialogue.

He added: “That’s probably right, but nevertheless we’ve got to get to the right place.

“I don’t think there’s anyone that sits around the rugby league tables that doesn’t care about the entire sport. They want to grab attention and drag people into the game and make them love the sport, and there may be differences of opinion, but the RFL’s job is try and make some sense of all this.

“We are guilty at some points of making changes in the sport, and we need to make sure the next set of changes are going to set us up for the future."

Unfortunately, most people don't want that.

As for the original point on the thread, Hetherington has let himself down on this one. It's all a bit silly, there is clearly a review going on, there has clearly been talk of 14 teams, and I haven't personally read anything from a journo that has absolutely stated that we are moving to 14, just speculation based on the bits of info knocking around, all fair discussion.

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Whatever people think of the RFL - compare and contrast the difference in approach when the RFL were tasked with leading the review and implementation of a new structure. It was carried out in a timely manner, communicated clearly, and agreed well in advance of implementation. That goes for when licensing was introduced too.

That isn't to claim the RFL are great, it is a point more about having a leadership team taking charge of this stuff works better than hearing random thoughts of Pearson, Carter, Lenegan and Hetherington. If the SLE clubs have genuinely flexed their muscles and taken back control, then they need to get a management team in place.

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2 hours ago, Jim Prendle said:

Is it not the job of the people who manage our game to ensure that such clarity is forthcoming? 

In the absence of clarity from any direction, then the journos will do what they do, make stuff up.

If they are not going to change anything, then come out and say so. If they are going to change something and they haven't quite decided what that change will be, then come out and say that. It's not all that difficult is it?

Are you arguing with me? That is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't put any blame on the journalists here at all.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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It sounds like a hissy fit because he knows that a lot of Super League clubs want to ditch the 3x8 system and bring in a reserve league which Hetherington is known to be against.

Rightly or wrongly a lot of people thought that Hetherington seemed to have Woods ear and had a lot of influence and with Wood gone he might be worried that the "rebel" clubs might get their way. I think I am right in that they now outnumber the clubs who voted for the 3x8s.

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1 minute ago, Liverpool Rover said:

It sounds like a hissy fit because he knows that a lot of Super League clubs want to ditch the 3x8 system and bring in a reserve league which Hetherington is known to be against.

Rightly or wrongly a lot of people thought that Hetherington seemed to have Woods ear and had a lot of influence and with Wood gone he might be worried that the "rebel" clubs might get their way. I think I am right in that they now outnumber the clubs who voted for the 3x8s.

It’s Tin Hat time if the Rebels come back into the equation!

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9 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Are you arguing with me? That is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't put any blame on the journalists here at all.

Quote

It is the job of journalists to unearth that clarity.

My contention is that it is not the job of journalists to unearth the clarity, it is the job of journalists to report the clear messages that should be given to them by the leaders of our sport.

That's all I was saying.

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