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Is the Summer Bash destined to be a flop?


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1 hour ago, RS said:

Maybe the Summer Bash works on the level that it gives the players and fans of Championship clubs a day in the Sun. 

Any wider promotion of the game may be some consequential benefit but not a necessity. When you think the CC Final, the biggest event by far over the history of RL in the UK, has done little or nothing for RL development in the huge city of London its hardly fair to expext the SB to have any effect.

In short why not enjoy it for what it is.

I think this is right. 

Sometimes we are so evangelical about our game that we forget to just enjoy what we have in front of us.

I think it is why we are so critical of the on-field product too as we are so insecure about what others think that anything short of a classic is an issue for us.

As you say, lets just enjoy it!

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The main thing about that really irritates me about these  RL events and I mean all of them is ticket prices. 

 

It doesn't pay to book in advance, for an example I booked tickets as soon as they were announced for last Magic and a few months or so later they had a Black Friday sale on 40% off, then a few more sales with % off, then a few weeks before Magic the prices were slashed to about £20 for the weekend when I had payed a bit more than double than that. And the same happens for GF, CC and the rest. It's watering down the product and putting people off buying early when they can just wait and get them cheaper a bit closer to the time. 

 

I'm really not surprised that early ticket sales of any event don't do well then when the day comes the crowds look decent and it's as you were after all the worrying about advanced sales being down. It's not that hard to figure out 

 

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1 minute ago, Michael Gledhill said:

With less than 3,000 tickets sold, I would say that the Summer Bash is going to make for painful viewing.

Which is a shame because the Championship is a fantastic competition and deserves better than this outdated gimmick.

Without the Bulls has seen to that.

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4 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

Which is a shame because the Championship is a fantastic competition and deserves better than this outdated gimmick.

Why is it an "outdated gimmick"? Just calling it one doesn't mean it is one - it's an event for fans of Championship clubs to enjoy. Why read any more into it than that.

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1 minute ago, M j M said:

Why is it an "outdated gimmick"? Just calling it one doesn't mean it is one - it's an event for fans of Championship clubs to enjoy. Why read any more into it than that.

It needs freshening up mate.

There were calls for the Magic Weekend to move away from Cardiff after two years.

Playing these events in the same stadiums give the impression of becoming stale and that is what's happend to the Summer Bash IMO.

After four years at the same venue in Blackpool; why not host the weekend at a new venue? 

Why not Newcastle at Kingston Park? 

Now obviously having no Hull KR and Bradford Bulls, who made up 65% of last year's crowd doesn't help, but if the fans were buying into the Summer Bash then more tickets would have been sold.

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20 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

It needs freshening up mate.

There were calls for the Magic Weekend to move away from Cardiff after two years.

Playing these events in the same stadiums give the impression of becoming stale and that is what's happend to the Summer Bash IMO.

After four years at the same venue in Blackpool; why not host the weekend at a new venue? 

Why not Newcastle at Kingston Park? 

Now obviously having no Hull KR and Bradford Bulls, who made up 65% of last year's crowd doesn't help, but if the fans were buying into the Summer Bash then more tickets would have been sold.

Then join championship with SL on a weekend. L1 games before them over two weekends. At the same venue.Simples.

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10 hours ago, Michael Gledhill said:

It needs freshening up mate.

There were calls for the Magic Weekend to move away from Cardiff after two years.

Playing these events in the same stadiums give the impression of becoming stale and that is what's happend to the Summer Bash IMO.

After four years at the same venue in Blackpool; why not host the weekend at a new venue? 

Why not Newcastle at Kingston Park? 

Now obviously having no Hull KR and Bradford Bulls, who made up 65% of last year's crowd doesn't help, but if the fans were buying into the Summer Bash then more tickets would have been sold.

I like the idea of taking over one city that has two grounds for Magic and Summer Bash. A Rugby League Festival.

Newcastle's RU stadium is a lovely little ground and they could stage them across both grounds on the same day. It would cause some logistic issues, and from a TV point of view may not be preferable, but you could expect to see a boost for both crowds, with some fans mixing and matching what they go to. ie. watching your event where your team play, and doing the other day at the other event for variety - as two days in the same ground with pretty much the same format isn't for everyone.

This could work in most big cities as they have access to more than one ground. 

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I like the idea of taking over one city that has two grounds for Magic and Summer Bash. A Rugby League Festival.

Newcastle's RU stadium is a lovely little ground and they could stage them across both grounds on the same day. It would cause some logistic issues, and from a TV point of view may not be preferable, but you could expect to see a boost for both crowds, with some fans mixing and matching what they go to. ie. watching your event where your team play, and doing the other day at the other event for variety - as two days in the same ground with pretty much the same format isn't for everyone.

This could work in most big cities as they have access to more than one ground. 

If the Summer Bash has a future then I really suspect it will be away from Blackpool.

Newcastle would have been perfect this year with the Magic Night Out between Newcastle and Bradford kick-starting the Rugby League jamboree off on the Friday night. 

Newcastle are confident that they will break their attendance record of 3,033 for the visit of the Bradford Bulls. 

A return to Manchester could be an option with the Regional Arena (hosting the Championship games alongside the Super League games at the Etihad Stadium. 

 

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Other sports can put a stand alone event fixture on at a big stadium and pull in 50,000+ punters. We struggle to get 30k per day when we play six games across a weekend. Now bizarre suggestions that we should lump Championship games alongside SL games to create even more fixtures in one place - yet it still won't fill the stadiums. 12 fixtures over a weekend FFS - nuts.

There is a reason people go to shop in Pound World. That is because the products are piled high and sold cheap. It is also a reason why such shops fail to convey quality. We have no faith in our product whatsoever so we offer add-on after add-on to tempt people to go. In many ways it creates the opposite effect.

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Exactly both magic and the summer bash are primarily tv products. What is being suggested simply won't work

You could do it over three days, say a bank holiday weekend to appease the TV schedule, 4 games a day, two from each competition

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Just now, scotchy1 said:

What would be the benefit? 

If planned well would get more punters through the doors than the current set up of two events. One weekend away may be more attractive to the event going supporters that two. 

Also being at one venue I expect the costs would be lower, then it would be more profitable, costs for TV coverage would also be lower so may get their buy in

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2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

If planned well would get more punters through the doors than the current set up of two events. One weekend away may be more attractive to the event going supporters that two. 

Also being at one venue I expect the costs would be lower, then it would be more profitable, costs for TV coverage would also be lower so may get their buy in

Would it though Spidey? It appears few do the whole weekend these days. The Saturday crowd comes and, in large parts, sods off home after the game. Some don't even stay to the end of their own game lol.

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Just now, Scubby said:

Would it though Spidey? It appears few do the whole weekend these days. The Saturday crowd comes and, in large parts, sods off home after the game. Some don't even stay to the end of their own game lol.

If planned well - it needs the right fixtures in the right order to get people to stay. 

Is transport the issue for people going early? Not staying.

Manchester seemed a lot better for transport links for all teams. Always found there were bigger crowds for longer there?

I don’t know if this is the way to go, but it’s an option. We’ll have to wait and see how this years events go, and if the structure changes (if any) dictate what happens with Magic

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2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Would it though Spidey? It appears few do the whole weekend these days. The Saturday crowd comes and, in large parts, sods off home after the game. Some don't even stay to the end of their own game lol.

It would be interesting to understand how many weekend tickets are sold versus day tickets, but I suspect the number of two-dayers is more than you would think.

That isn't evidence based though, purely that whenever I go, it isn't just the fans from the 6 teams playing that are there. 

Also, the hotels being packed and bloody expensive suggests that a fair few are happy to make a weekend of it.

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2 hours ago, Scubby said:

Other sports can put a stand alone event fixture on at a big stadium and pull in 50,000+ punters. We struggle to get 30k per day when we play six games across a weekend. Now bizarre suggestions that we should lump Championship games alongside SL games to create even more fixtures in one place - yet it still won't fill the stadiums. 12 fixtures over a weekend FFS - nuts.

There is a reason people go to shop in Pound World. That is because the products are piled high and sold cheap. It is also a reason why such shops fail to convey quality. We have no faith in our product whatsoever so we offer add-on after add-on to tempt people to go. In many ways it creates the opposite effect.

Bit of a mixed message there. These cheap places are bucking the trend in many places and doing very well for themselves.

I'm not sure why the suggestion is bizarre - ever tried going to a festival, they have loads of different events all over the place to cater for a wider range of people.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It would be interesting to understand how many weekend tickets are sold versus day tickets, but I suspect the number of two-dayers is more than you would think.

That isn't evidence based though, purely that whenever I go, it isn't just the fans from the 6 teams playing that are there. 

Also, the hotels being packed and bloody expensive suggests that a fair few are happy to make a weekend of it.

I would also suspect that two-day tickets are so cheap for season ticket holders that they may buy them and not bother even using them on the day their team wasn't playing (a bit like Disney 7-day park tickets). I bought 4 tickets for the World Cup PNG game at Headingley in 2013 and just didn't bother using two of them. They were like a tenner each.

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

There is 3k sold for the summer bash. Some of those will go to both anyway as neutrals. I just think it would end up with diluted magic weekend carrying a summer bash that doesn't really work.

I'm not sure what the risk is (apart from the TV broadcasting which would likely kill it as an idea before it started).

I would expect the overlap between the two events over consecutive weekends to be relatively limited, but this would appeal to more of those fans who would watch a 2nd day of SL/Championship, but have little desire to watch 2 days in the same ground. It is probably my only criticism of Magic, that because they do little entertainment, the 2nd day just feels like more of the same. This would add some variety. Like a proper festival.

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Bit of a mixed message there. These cheap places are bucking the trend in many places and doing very well for themselves.

I'm not sure why the suggestion is bizarre - ever tried going to a festival, they have loads of different events all over the place to cater for a wider range of people.

Festivals erect more stages because they are expanding and selling loads more tickets each year. Magic is selling less than it did 3 years ago in Newcastle. I would suspect that trend won't be bucked this year either - Sunday could be a disappointing showing again.

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4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I would also suspect that two-day tickets are so cheap for season ticket holders that they may buy them and not bother even using them on the day their team wasn't playing (a bit like Disney 7-day park tickets). I bought 4 tickets for the World Cup PNG game at Headingley in 2013 and just didn't bother using two of them. They were like a tenner each.

There will always be that risk at a booze-heavy weekend. I have done the above. But everyone who will have bought one will have had the intention of using it or giving it to somebody to use. So that isn't really an issue.

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Last years summer bash i stayed over till the Tuesday & bought the local paper on the Monday nothing in it about the two day event just been held at Bloomfield Road.

The event wants publicized around Blackpool plus where was all the merchandise around the ground? i would loved to have bought a Blackpool Bash shirt to wear around Devon/Cornwall when i went to local rugby games but nothing need to push it this year to improve the attendance for the weekend.

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12 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Festivals erect more stages because they are expanding and selling loads more tickets each year. Magic is selling less than it did 3 years ago in Newcastle. I would suspect that trend won't be bucked this year either - Sunday could be a disappointing showing again.

I think you are being overly negative on this one Scubby.

Have you considered that this *may* be the size of the market for this event, certainly what they are prepared to invest in. 

A couple of stats to try and cheer you up:

Newcastle average 67.1k

This is higher than Manchester (63.4k)- a ground in the heartlands that had 7 games versus Newcastle's 6. Cardiff averaged 60.7k and Edinburgh 55.9k.

It should always be remembered that this is an away SL game for all clubs - to get an average of 5.6k per club in Newcastle is decent.

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6 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I really can't see that there is a big market out there that don't go to the magic weekend but would if there were some championship rugby. It seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist

As you say the second day is often more of the same but now we are maybe offering a third day with the extra content being an inferior level of the same. 

Far better that we actually recalibrate the magic weekend to what it is which is a celebration of RL and look at what we can provide that links with that and we look again at another solution for getting the championship on Tv which is what the summer bash is for.

I also think we need to remember that magic and the summer bash are primarily made for tv. Getting every RL fan to attend somewhat defeats the point

I don't think the problem is with Magic Weekend - I was illustrating my point by using Magic as it is the one I regularly attend.

I think there is a benefit of taking over a city on a larger scale, with bigger fanzones, spread across a couple of grounds. and I suspect the cumulative total would be for the two events individually.

I'm comfortable with Magic with tweaks (including changing the horrible name!), but I have long championed it becoming more of an RL festival, bringing all the fans together. I thought it would have worked well at somewhere like Murrayfield where they have huge communal areas and potentially two grounds in future, or Man City, which is similar, albeit with more concrete.

People do like to move in and out of the stadium, and I think just like a music festival, they would appreciate the freedom to see different games, plus an uplift in effort on things like the music.

But the problem here is Summer Bash, if it completely bombs this year, there is a chance of it either being scrapped, or being moved to Halifax!

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18 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think you are being overly negative on this one Scubby.

Have you considered that this *may* be the size of the market for this event, certainly what they are prepared to invest in. 

A couple of stats to try and cheer you up:

Newcastle average 67.1k

This is higher than Manchester (63.4k)- a ground in the heartlands that had 7 games versus Newcastle's 6. Cardiff averaged 60.7k and Edinburgh 55.9k.

It should always be remembered that this is an away SL game for all clubs - to get an average of 5.6k per club in Newcastle is decent.

Nope it is what it is because we put a half-arsed effort into promoting it locally. We saw 30k roll into St James Park for a single fixture in a different code a couple of weeks ago. We send tens of thousands of travelling fans to the North East each year which should bolster the local attendees at the game there not replace it.

The RFL plan document aim was for Magic Day 1 to sell out.

In RL we have posted two great crowds for events with first up visit to venues recently - 40,871 for Day one Magic weekend 2015 and 44,393 for the Kiwis at the London Stadium (2015). How did we manage to turn that into 35,361 Magic Day 1 2017 (- 5,510) and 35,564 v Australia 4N 2016 (-8,829)? Probably because we just keep going into the well to the same old supporter base again and again and are not prepared to spend to grow in the locality.

Wembley is another event heading the same way. Other sports grow events from a starting point, we give up on them.

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