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Is the Summer Bash destined to be a flop?


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1 minute ago, Scubby said:

1 - Nope it is what it is because we put a half-arsed effort into promoting it locally.

2 - We saw 30k roll into St James Park for a single fixture in a different code a couple of weeks ago. We send tens of thousands of travelling fans to the North East each year which should bolster the local attendees at the game there.

The RFL plan document aim was for Magic Day 1 to sell out.

3 - In RL we have posted two great crowds for events with first up visit to venues recently - 40,871 for Day one Magic weekend 2015 and 44,393 for the Kiwis at the London Stadium (2015). How did we manage to turn that into 35,361 Magic Day 1 2017 (- 5,510) and 35,564 v Australia 4N 2016 (-8,829)? Probably because we just keep going into the well to the same old supporter base again and again and are not prepared to spend to grow.

Wembley is another event heading the same way.

1 - Just keep being angry because we don't get sellouts isn't that constructive though - what do they do in Newcastle for example? What more could they do to get a good return?

2 - Yes, a Newcastle team, played in Newcastle and got a great crowd and I expect they lost a fortune. Edinburgh Rugby have done similar and got 20k at Murrayfield - are their fans angry that Saracens got 4 times higher? These things are all unique.

3 - Novelty is always a useful tool, and personally I would like a different city used each year to keep it fresh - however year 2 at Newcastle was better, as was year 2 at Cardiff, as was Year 3 at Manchester. But I think we are talking a small number of thousand fluctuations here. Simple things like Bank Holidays, weather etc. can have an impact. We know scheduling was an issue with the Olympic Stadium and you won't hear me defend that, but this is about Summer Bash.

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4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I don't disagree that more needs to go on around it (an obvious suggestion is a food/beer festival around the stadium) but they have to be complementary rather than compete with the main attraction (legends 9s comp in between the games would be good aswell)

I honestly don't think there is any kind of market out there of people wanting something different from an SL game, that being a championship game. 

The championship just doesn't have the critical mass to make events like this successful. It needs to look again at what it can offer as a tv product because there is a niche for it.

My point is that this grows Summer Bash as opposed to Magic. But some would be interested the other way too, particularly if in the same enclosure and you could nip in and out which I think would be the best model.

The Murrayfield Magic weekends were the best for me, in that the ground was suited perfectly for it (apart from the bloody cold) - we did have legends tag tournaments, an excellent fanzone and more entertainment outside, but those crowds were lower, so what do I know?!?! Newcastle fanzone is the worst ever but it is closer to the pubs. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

1 - Just keep being angry because we don't get sellouts isn't that constructive though - what do they do in Newcastle for example? What more could they do to get a good return?

2 - Yes, a Newcastle team, played in Newcastle and got a great crowd and I expect they lost a fortune. Edinburgh Rugby have done similar and got 20k at Murrayfield - are their fans angry that Saracens got 4 times higher? These things are all unique.

3 - Novelty is always a useful tool, and personally I would like a different city used each year to keep it fresh - however year 2 at Newcastle was better, as was year 2 at Cardiff, as was Year 3 at Manchester. But I think we are talking a small number of thousand fluctuations here. Simple things like Bank Holidays, weather etc. can have an impact. We know scheduling was an issue with the Olympic Stadium and you won't hear me defend that, but this is about Summer Bash.

Being angry? Magic sell out Day 1 was one of the RFL's KPIs :D

Allowing Summer Bash to fizzle to tumbleweed tells us all we need to know. Going back to the well and hoping well supported clubs will rock up and make up for the half-baked attempts to achieve local ticket sales. It will be excruciating to watch and typifies the head in the sand approach. 

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30 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I don't think it would grow the summer bash. I honestly can't see a situation where extra people are going to this new dual weekend because it offers  both and even if it did I can't see people going get I'm bored of watching SL I'm off to a smaller stadium to watch the chanpionship. 

We would just end up spreading the exact same amount of people, thinner.

I disagree. Some people go for the package and this broadens the experience (particularly in those places with grounds next to each other - having to get a bus is a bit rubbish).

Summer Bash is hardly an attractive product for fans as things stand, putting this alongside Magic would undoubtedly make that more attractive.

I'm hoping to get to Magic this year and watching TWP and Toulouse is an additional draw for me. We see some people head to Newcastle games, just as they have headed to Crusaders in the past on the Friday night game.

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The thing is the RL mentality of if it's not popular this year, we should scrap it, is what's wrong with our game. Next year there is potentially the Bulls, York (who's crowds have grown nicely due to the great effort there), Newcastle (as York) and Workington (who are investing heavily with players let's hope it pays off and they invest in more marketing).

Clubs on the up.

Leigh have dropped down this year and will take a fair few. You have Fax and Fev too.

In addition how can it be judged when BOTH Toronto and Toulouse will be there (I assume)

Finally why do I keep using brackets? (I don't know)

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The Falcons game in Newcastle was an interesting one. There were posters up on the Metro in the student areas advertising it as Newcastle v Northumbria Varsity game. The Falcons game was in small print.

Didn't see any Magic posters but did hear a radio ad on a local station.

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16 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

The Falcons game in Newcastle was an interesting one. There were posters up on the Metro in the student areas advertising it as Newcastle v Northumbria Varsity game. The Falcons game was in small print.

Didn't see any Magic posters but did hear a radio ad on a local station.

I guess they might have been student posters.

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On 29/03/2018 at 11:52 AM, Gerrumonside ref said:

I think Magic should be for attracting new fans and laying the groundwork for expansion.

With all due respect, I can’t see much point in holding it in Leeds.

I went to the first Magic at Cardiff where I thought we were helping to launch the Celtic Crusaders, but was disappointed that relatively few of the people around us at Cardiff were Welsh.

I’ve not been to the ones in Newcastle and would be interested to know if they’re seen to be helping to turn the Geordies onto the game and into Newcastle Thunder fans.

 

It helps thunder when they play the night before and sell thousands of tickets.... same with the skolars before CC.

More should be done with local development though!

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12 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Reports the NRL will be having a magic weekend/summer bash in Brisbane.

Will be interesting to see how it goes, especially as the attendance isn't going to set any records, it shows the value is something other than simple attendances one being it's a fantastic tv product.

Probably never going to happen but as a made for tv product a joint magic weekend with a couple SL games at the NRL weekend and a couple of NRL games at the SL weekend, all games televised in succession would IMO be hugely popular, a fantastic tv product and raise the profile of each competition in the opposite market massively.

I think a mixed NRL/SL magic weekend in mid summer could do Wembley 

Interesting that they could've held this anywhere (thinking Perth, Adelaide, Darwin) but decided instead to stick it right in a 'Heartland' area...........

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I imagine their long term ambition would be to take it elsewhere but as scotchy says, they might be looking at the safe option for the first one. The distances involved in travelling in Australia will make it much harder for fans to travel than ours popping up to Newcastle.

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:54 PM, Dave T said:

Bit of a mixed message there. These cheap places are bucking the trend in many places and doing very well for themselves.

I'm not sure why the suggestion is bizarre - ever tried going to a festival, they have loads of different events all over the place to cater for a wider range of people.

The problem with the festival analogy is that it is only the main stage which gets on TV.

The major point about the Bash is that it is the only event for Championship clubs gets Sky coverage, mix it in with an SL competition and that almost certainly is going to be lost.

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4 minutes ago, Bulliac said:

The problem with the festival analogy is that it is only the main stage which gets on TV.

The major point about the Bash is that it is the only event for Championship clubs gets Sky coverage, mix it in with an SL competition and that almost certainly is going to be lost.

yeah, and I did call out the TV coverage as an issue in my original post.

Unfortunately, there is a risk that a small number of thousands at this event may kill it off anyway.

Whilst it may be classed as a made-for-tv product, it does need to be a decent event with fans supporting it.

Back to the festival point though, the amount of content that the BBC get out of Glastonbury is more than Summer Bash irrc.

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36 minutes ago, Benjamaphone said:

I'm hoping someone here can be more helpful than the RFL twitter account - are the tickets for the summer bash for specific seats or do people just sit anywhere? 

A quick glance at the ticket site answers that for you:

mm?id=1901

 

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5 hours ago, Dave T said:

A quick glance at the ticket site answers that for you:

mm?id=1901

 

Cheers Dave, I had seen that but then when you select an area you get to choose "seats" from a grid with different ones highlighted red/green which made me think that it wasn't unreserved seating - I was after someone who has been to the bash before to clarify but seeing as it's unlikely to get anywhere near selling out I guess it's a moot point!

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3 hours ago, Benjamaphone said:

Cheers Dave, I had seen that but then when you select an area you get to choose "seats" from a grid with different ones highlighted red/green which made me think that it wasn't unreserved seating - I was after someone who has been to the bash before to clarify but seeing as it's unlikely to get anywhere near selling out I guess it's a moot point!

Will they have the tv cameras facing the east stand, to give the impression that no one's there, like so often happens? 

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7 hours ago, RayCee said:

Will they have the tv cameras facing the east stand, to give the impression that no one's there, like so often happens? 

It doesn't look like they'll need to 'give the impression that no one's there' no matter which way the cameras are pointing ;)

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14 hours ago, Benjamaphone said:

Cheers Dave, I had seen that but then when you select an area you get to choose "seats" from a grid with different ones highlighted red/green which made me think that it wasn't unreserved seating - I was after someone who has been to the bash before to clarify but seeing as it's unlikely to get anywhere near selling out I guess it's a moot point!

It's unreserved seating, but you're restricted to either the northerly half or southerly half depending on which club you support/want to sit with.

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On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:11 PM, Dave T said:

yeah, and I did call out the TV coverage as an issue in my original post.

Unfortunately, there is a risk that a small number of thousands at this event may kill it off anyway.

Whilst it may be classed as a made-for-tv product, it does need to be a decent event with fans supporting it.

Back to the festival point though, the amount of content that the BBC get out of Glastonbury is more than Summer Bash irrc.

Oh absolutely, I take the point that the Beeb get more than just the top acts from Glasto, but the analogy falls short when you consider that, whilst you can always show a set of music at any point afterwards, sport is always more immediate and dates instantly when the results are known. You may get away with a slightly delayed coverage but beyond an hour or so it's dead.

I think the other point is probably more pertinent; small attendances will kill it. Even on TV a miserable attendance kills the atmosphere surrounding the game stone dead, and that applies to both TV and at the ground.

No team is an island.........................................

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

The problem the summer bash is always going to see is small attendances. As a competition it only gets 10k on a good week. Split over two days that's only 5k. So even on 'par' it's going to be a struggle.

Added to it being held in Blackpool which doesn't hold massive attraction and has little local support and it's very difficult to increase that. 

If you are struggling to get people through the door in workington or batley you aren't going to get them travelling from workington or batley to Blackpool which leaves the local fans as your market. Then the question becomes what use is getting people through the gate once a year in Blackpool?

The championship needs to investigate other options for getting them on tv that fans will actually attend. 

What was the attendance for Leigh v Bradford?  What attendance will be from Toulouse,Toronto and London? Now you can possibly see the reasons for 2 SL divisions..

Going round in circles again..

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No-one, except maybe the RFL and this would be unlikely,actually knows the attendance for individual games as it is only given for each day. I guess each club would now how many tickets they sold and these totals could be added together? That would give a fair idea.

Maybe the idea of a largish all-seater stadium is the wrong way to go for the Bash? Maybe a smaller stadium, more central to the heartlands would attract a larger crowd, though this would clearly downgrade the event as a 'spectacular', but would look better than a seating exhibition in a bigger one.

No team is an island.........................................

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31337109@N03/

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Without going through every response on this firstly I am not too fussed if expansion happens or not at the location. Its a positive spin off if it does but if it keeps Sky happy, puts some pennies in the RL coffers and fans have a good weekend (I look forward to Newcastle every year) then im happy.

Given that Newcastle RU used SJP (with a good crowd) I dont understand however why Thunder are not made the first game of the magic weekend? Surely having the "home" team at the weekend would help with locals (and it has to be said I have heard plenty of local accents at the games before).

And finally I have said it before if cities are queuing up to do this I would follow the concept for a full round of either Challenge cup quarters (or maybe semis) at one location given we moan about the attendances for those each year. The quarters would potentially allow fans from other/smaller clubs to sample the magic weekend style atmosphere.

 

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Thunder aren't in SL, of course, so wouldn't be at Magic anyway, of course, unless there is a specific exception made, and to be honest, I'd expect most Newcastle RL fans would go along anyway to a big event in their home city, with or without Thunder actually playing - it's not as though the area was awash with opportunities to see top flight action. 

For the general, further flung fans, relatively few will watch most, or even all, of the games, more will possibly watch their own team and maybe another game (or so) but the majority seem to arrive in time to watch their own game and then leave, either to sample the other delights, or go home. You'll never get every ticket holder in the stadium at the same time, for either Magic or the Bash. Magic though, if not the Bash, does seem to generate some extra coverage in the national press, a press which normally gives us only scant coverage at best, so maybe it is worthwhile on that basis alone?

No team is an island.........................................

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31337109@N03/

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