Bearman Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 The Daily Mail reports that police have released Richard Osborne -Brooks without charge after the burgler was killed. Released on the advice of the DPP. Victory for common sense. Ron Banks Midlands Hurricanes and Barrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Willow Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 The police did the correct thing in arresting him and investigating the circumstances of the death. as you say common sense seems to have won with no charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 should have just shook his hand from the start and said "well done, heres a voucher for 2 weeks in the sun while we sort out the paperwork" shame we even think about the rights of scumbags that dare to intrude in the homes of good honest working people see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingPie Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said: should have just shook his hand from the start and said "well done, heres a voucher for 2 weeks in the sun while we sort out the paperwork" shame we even think about the rights of scumbags that dare to intrude in the homes of good honest working people When someone’s been killed the police have to follow due process and investigate. I think it’s then the CPS’s decision on whether to prosecute. If you think about it that’s correct, so the people investigating don’t decided on who should be prosecuted, it avoids the risk of them overstepping the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, RidingPie said: When someone’s been killed the police have to follow due process and investigate. I think it’s then the CPS’s decision on whether to prosecute. If you think about it that’s correct, so the people investigating don’t decided on who should be prosecuted, it avoids the risk of them overstepping the mark. if the scumbags didnt put the mark there in the first place there would be no need to step near it never mind over it see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 It was the right thing to investigate a death in violent circumstances, it was also the right thing to not press charges. The outrage from the dead guys family is, I suppose predictable from what appears to be a family of professional criminals. "Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Great news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingPie Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 53 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said: if the scumbags didnt put the mark there in the first place there would be no need to step near it never mind over it I’m curious who you are calling scumbags. It almost seems like you mean the police, while they make mistakes they are generally pretty good under tough conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark S Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 At the end of the day somebody died, the circumstances needed to be investigated, and he has been cleared. The media saw another opportunity to kick up a stink and satisfy the mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Agree with the sensible view that if someone's been killed you need to investigate it and that it's right that this OAP now faces no charges at all. A broader point. This family, and no doubt many others, must be loving the current police cuts that mean that there is often no one from forces even able to go out and look at 'minor' crimes like burgling a house. Without changing that we'll see more and more of these type of stories in the press. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 13 hours ago, graveyard johnny said: should have just shook his hand from the start and said "well done, heres a voucher for 2 weeks in the sun while we sort out the paperwork" shame we even think about the rights of scumbags that dare to intrude in the homes of good honest working people Yes. Someone gets killed in unclear circumstances, you should give the person who seemed to kill them a bonus without even looking into it. I shall bear your views on criminal investigation in mind next time you post on the subject. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Browny Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Interesting that the story broke around the same time as this one, where reading between the lines the intruder appears to have been a vulnerable individual. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/pensioner-home-intruder-bath-drink-stoke-staffordshire-police-break-in-burglary-a8292381.html Presumably, according to Graveyard Johnny types, this individual should have been clubbed to death with no questions asked and maybe a handshake. Looks like a sensible approach taken by the police in both instances. I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Just Browny said: Interesting that the story broke around the same time as this one, where reading between the lines the intruder appears to have been a vulnerable individual. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/pensioner-home-intruder-bath-drink-stoke-staffordshire-police-break-in-burglary-a8292381.html Presumably, according to Graveyard Johnny types, this individual should have been clubbed to death with no questions asked and maybe a handshake. Looks like a sensible approach taken by the police in both instances. I believe Graveyard Johnny does not think we should investigate crimes at all. Until he changes his mind. Obvious, innit. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Think it's the wording that confuses folk. Helping the police with their enquiries sounds better than arrested under suspicion if murder. Hope the guy never has to buy another drink in his life and also hope that if I make 78 I can still take on two burglars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, Vambo said: Think it's the wording that confuses folk. Helping the police with their enquiries sounds better than arrested under suspicion if murder. Hope the guy never has to buy another drink in his life and also hope that if I make 78 I can still take on two burglars. He looked pretty robust in the pics published of him "Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 A man lost his life under violent circumstances. Its right that it is investigated. If the old chap had an honestly held belief he was under serious threat, then his response is proportionate. Not every response is proportionate as was the case with tony martin... hence the custodial sentence he recieved. Its right that such incidents recieve due process and seemingly the correct outcome prevailed based on the info available. I just don't like the guilt or innocence judge by the media..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getdownmonkeyman Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Due process has to be followed. What I don’t understand is how he can be arrested for murder. In my layman’s view, doesn’t murder require premeditation? Not sure how this situation fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 A man died. At the point of investigation no circumstances would be known so an arrest is made. Guilt is not assumed. Everything would need to be investigated incl any evidence of premeditation. To be fair the police have been expedient in concluding their investigation and handing their findings to the cps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Browny Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 1 hour ago, getdownmonkeyman said: Due process has to be followed. What I don’t understand is how he can be arrested for murder. In my layman’s view, doesn’t murder require premeditation? Not sure how this situation fits. Not in English law I don't think. Just had to be with intent, not pre-planned. I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 A few years ago i was being training on managing violence and aggression on a forensic unit. I was advised by the legal team that any proportionate response to an honestly held belief would not result in prosecution or any disciplinary action but made it clear suspension and arrest are quite possible as holding powers to allow a formal investigation to take place. An incident i can't describe in great detail occurred on a male acute unit where the life of a female nurse was under imminent threat. A male member of the team took action resulting in serious injury to the assailant. Suspension and arrest followed. No charges or disciplinary proceedings were brought as a result of the action... Its a similar scenario..... a swift responseis oft required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moorside roughyed Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Common sense prevailed in my view on this occasion. The burglar was somewhere he shouldn't have been.Was the burglar thinking of the welfare of the inhabitant when breaking and entering, I think not.He won't be doing it again will he?.Ive been a victim of burglary myself and I felt violated and intruded upon and it's not nice.This guy was just protecting himself and his property, surely there's no law against that is there?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Yes there is. As stated above there must a honestly held belief that a threat imminent and a response is proprtionate. Examples is thetony martin case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 3 hours ago, getdownmonkeyman said: Due process has to be followed. What I don’t understand is how he can be arrested for murder. In my layman’s view, doesn’t murder require premeditation? Not sure how this situation fits. My guess is because he died outside the house. The police would have to make sure he hadn’t legged it and the home owner hadn’t followed to finish him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintslass Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Saint 1 said: There isn't a law against that, which is why there is no charges against him. However, there is still a requirement that the self-defence is reasonable and necessary, and hence the police had to investigate the death. There is no obligation for the inhabitant to 'weigh things to a nicety', and the inhabitant can pre-emptively strike if he believes the use of force is reasonable and necessary to protect himself, others or his property. The law has plenty of protection for home-owners defending themselves, we should not pretend otherwise. You say that but it was after the Tony Martin incident that the relevant legal bodies provided clarity on self-defence and proportionality as it became apparent at that time that there was confusion. Apparently the gentleman in this recent case also had a disabled wife whom he was protecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintslass Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 45 minutes ago, Saint 1 said: As far as I know, the clarity was that shooting someone as they flee isn't self-defence. The law is pretty well-established. Force has to be reasonable and necessary (in the eyes of the defendent). That has not changed. A good blog on the topic here - https://thesecretbarrister.com/2018/04/05/bashing-burglars-and-the-law-of-self-defence/ No, it hasn't changed. It was just clarified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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