New Centrist Party In The Offing ?

[Jasper]

Just been reading this in The Guardian, talk of running candidates in the next general election. -

"A new political party with access to up to £50m in funding has been secretly under development for more than a year by a network of entrepreneurs, philanthropists and donors keen to “break the Westminster mould”, the Observer can reveal. "

Full article here - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/07/new-political-party-break-mould-westminster-uk-brexit

Could they be any worse than what we have now?

 

 

[Farmduck]

Maybe it's Sargon of Akkad's Liberalist Society.

[Phil]

Radical and centrist has always struck me as a huge contradiction in terms 

[ckn]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

Radical and centrist has always struck me as a huge contradiction in terms 

One person's centrist is another's raving left/right wing lunatic.  It's such a subjective issue that it's hard to really define.

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, ckn said:

One person's centrist is another's raving left/right wing lunatic.  It's such a subjective issue that it's hard to really define.

Aren’t/wern’t the SDP/Liberals a “centrist” party there’s also a tendency on the right of Labour which I’m sure would self describe as “centrist”.

Is this just another SDP style split? 

[ckn]

37 minutes ago, Jasper said:

Just been reading this in The Guardian, talk of running candidates in the next general election. -

"A new political party with access to up to £50m in funding has been secretly under development for more than a year by a network of entrepreneurs, philanthropists and donors keen to “break the Westminster mould”, the Observer can reveal. "

Full article here - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/07/new-political-party-break-mould-westminster-uk-brexit

Could they be any worse than what we have now?

 

 

I'm always really cynical about political parties and wealthy donors.  What they usually want is a definite return on their money in line with their views.  It just stinks of American politics where you buy elections and the elected officials are fully in the pockets of those with the money.

Anyway, unless there was a 100-150+ MP "defection" to the new party, it'd end up just as effective as UKIP.  It would need something that large to be so seismic that it would shake up the entire system.  Look at UKIP, large and loud support across England resulting in one MP, even then he brought much of his old vote from when he was a locally respected Tory MP.

If Rees-Mogg became Tory leader then there'd be leaders of the two main parties who are extensively disliked by their own MPs and have very different views from the bulk of them.  If there wasn't a move to organise a mass defection from Labour and the Tories to a new "centre" party then, then there never will be.  And the sheer inertia of the system means that it'd probably never happen.

[Tommygilf]

23 minutes ago, ckn said:

I'm always really cynical about political parties and wealthy donors.  What they usually want is a definite return on their money in line with their views.  It just stinks of American politics where you buy elections and the elected officials are fully in the pockets of those with the money.

Anyway, unless there was a 100-150+ MP "defection" to the new party, it'd end up just as effective as UKIP.  It would need something that large to be so seismic that it would shake up the entire system.  Look at UKIP, large and loud support across England resulting in one MP, even then he brought much of his old vote from when he was a locally respected Tory MP.

If Rees-Mogg became Tory leader then there'd be leaders of the two main parties who are extensively disliked by their own MPs and have very different views from the bulk of them.  If there wasn't a move to organise a mass defection from Labour and the Tories to a new "centre" party then, then there never will be.  And the sheer inertia of the system means that it'd probably never happen.

The only way anything like this would be successful in the UK would be through a repeat of the Coupon Election of 1918. Labour and Tory MPs standing as individuals on coalition basis.

Whilst the chances of that happening are slim, they are made even more slim by the distinct lack of inspirational leadership in that field. There's no public rally speakers on the same level of Corbyn or even Farage, and when your message is "lets keep most things the same but tinker with it a bit" this only adds to the apathy.

[gingerjon]

44 minutes ago, Phil said:

Aren’t/wern’t the SDP/Liberals a “centrist” party there’s also a tendency on the right of Labour which I’m sure would self describe as “centrist”.

Is this just another SDP style split? 

It's not even an SDP style split.

It's some people with money but no signed up politicians, no volunteers, no members and no clue.

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's not even an SDP style split.

It's some people with money but no signed up politicians, no volunteers, no members and no clue.

No signed up politicians that we know about yet 

[westlondonfan]

Yes it will involve some people from the Labour Party is my guess.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

No signed up politicians that we know about yet 

No politician who wants to win their seat in 2022 is going to move over to this new lot without the other things being in place.

[bowes]

1 hour ago, Saint 1 said:

How many times have we heard all about a new, radical, centrist party over the last year or two? 

These sound different. The other launches are Lib Dem clones whereas these are more like moderate Labour. There won't be the obsession with overturning the referendum that's held the Lib Dems back, nor the baggage.

Next election the Conservatives are likely to led by JRM and Labour are likely to still be riddled with anti-semitism and be much more heavily controlled by Momentum, so there clearly is a need for an alternative

[lucky 7]

I considered Ed Miliband a centrist despite the Tory papers calling him Red Ed.

If Andy Burnham or David Miliband were to be labour party leaders i would consider them centrists, but whoever is Labour party leader they wont be cut any slack by the Tory loving media.

[gingerjon]

28 minutes ago, bowes said:

There won't be the obsession with overturning the referendum

That is literally the only concrete pledge on their home page.

[Oxford]

2 hours ago, Jasper said:

"A new political party with access to up to £50m in funding has been secretly under development for more than a year by a network of entrepreneurs, philanthropists and donors keen to “break the Westminster mould”, the Observer can reveal. "

Entrepreneurs? Philanthropists? Oh, a Trump pretend we're new kids on the block here to change all the old ways instead of just out for ourselves party!

Got my vote "Clear the swamp! Clear the swamp!" This is beguiling, isn't it?

[Farmduck]

Radical fundamentalist Centrism is the new punk!

The last thing politics needs is more Centrist parties. In OZ, our two major parties are barely a c*** hair apart and we've had several attempts to wedge a new Centrist party in between them. We need more extreme parties. Our main racists, One Nation, have taught our politicians a valuable lesson. They get only 2-3% in NSW and Victoria so the electoral value of racist policies is clearly so small that it wouldn't cover the stench they would attract to that party. Both major parties couldn't risk that in the two biggest states so, effectively, having a racist party run for elections actually shows how little value those views hold.

[bowes]

30 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That is literally the only concrete pledge on their home page.

You're thinking of a different new party there I believe

[Maximus Decimus]

29 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That is literally the only concrete pledge on their home page.

It should also be a potential recipe for success. 

There are at least 48% of this country who didn't want Brexit never mind a hard Brexit. IMO the Lib Dems are fatally held back by the student fees issue and will find it impossible to get out of this. 

I with another 900 or so hardy souls in Halton voted for them at the last election. 

[Maximus Decimus]

20 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

Radical fundamentalist Centrism is the new punk!

The last thing politics needs is more Centrist parties. In OZ, our two major parties are barely a c*** hair apart and we've had several attempts to wedge a new Centrist party in between them. We need more extreme parties. Our main racists, One Nation, have taught our politicians a valuable lesson. They get only 2-3% in NSW and Victoria so the electoral value of racist policies is clearly so small that it wouldn't cover the stench they would attract to that party. Both major parties couldn't risk that in the two biggest states so, effectively, having a racist party run for elections actually shows how little value those views hold.

This might be the case in Australia and it was the case in the UK 10 years ago. It's not any more, the more extreme elements in our two main parties have won out and our most centrist party has all but collapsed. 

There is definitely room for a centrist party. There are a lot like me who are isolated by the direction of the two main parties but I can't see it ever getting off the ground especially with the FPTP system we have. 

[Saintslass]

13 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

It should also be a potential recipe for success. 

There are at least 48% of this country who didn't want Brexit never mind a hard Brexit. IMO the Lib Dems are fatally held back by the student fees issue and will find it impossible to get out of this. 

I with another 900 or so hardy souls in Halton voted for them at the last election. 

Except the latest polls say anything between 60% and 65% are against another referendum and want the government to get on with delivering Brexit. 

If the LibDem stance had been a potential recipe for success then at the 2017 general election they would have wiped the floor with Labour (given that more remainers vote Labour than vote Tory).  However, they didn't.  They gained a handful of seats from their previous outing, which was a near wipe-out.

[gingerjon]

44 minutes ago, bowes said:

You're thinking of a different new party there I believe

That is certainly possible. There seem to be so many of these speculative nonsense ego trips.

[Vambo]

Must be plenty of gravy still in the trough.

 

[Maximus Decimus]

2 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Except the latest polls say anything between 60% and 65% are against another referendum and want the government to get on with delivering Brexit. 

If the LibDem stance had been a potential recipe for success then at the 2017 general election they would have wiped the floor with Labour (given that more remainers vote Labour than vote Tory).  However, they didn't.  They gained a handful of seats from their previous outing, which was a near wipe-out.

And as I said, there are reasons the Lib Dems are done for and it's unrelated to Brexit. Labour did a very good job of making a Brexit election not about Brexit. 

Even your 65% allows for a significant chunk of people that not only don't want a hard Brexit but who want another referendum. 

This is only going to grow as reality sets in and Brexit isn't some land of milk and honey. 

[bbfaz]

I don't see how you get past the FPTP system or the "pig with a blue rosette" brigade.

[John Drake]

Some decent points on this by Andrew Rawnsley in The Observer

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/07/opportunity-knocks-for-new-party-will-anybody-dare-open-door

The opportunity exists for a new party, but it would be a massive gamble. What is so far lacking is a critical mass of MPs prepared to take the large risks involved in making it happen. It is said, and it is true, that recent events have pushed many Labour MPs to breaking point, but that does not mean they are quite ready to break with their party. One thing that stops them is a deep attachment to Labour as an idea and a tribe, along with a continuing reluctance among many to accept that their party has been lost to Corbynism for the foreseeable future. One of this view likes to say to distraught colleagues: “It will pass.” Another thing holding them back is Brexit. I have heard a significant number of Labour MPs say the time is not yet ripe for a new party because they have a duty to “hold it together” until the critical parliamentary votes on Brexit have played out.

The moment of truth will come when we are closer to the EU departure date. It will be then that we will find out whether the many conversations about a new party amount to anything more than idle chatter.

It will be then that we will discover whether wistful talk turns into the bold action that would be required to make it happen. History scoffs at the idea. Precedent suggests that a new party will fail. Then again, the past few years have repeatedly shown us, from the rise of Jeremy Corbyn to Brexit, that precedent has become a lousy predictor.