Lions tour 2019 (Merged Threads)

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, MattSantos said:

Is there a tour? Is there an International calendar?

 

Indeed, THIS is the real issue.

[roughyedspud]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Indeed, THIS is the real issue.

https://www.sportbusiness.com/sport-news/rlif-details-future-vision-international-calendar

The Rugby League International Federation (RLIF) has outlined a long-term plan for an international calendar that would include the return of the British and Irish Lions team and new competitions such as a World Cup for the nines format of the sport.

The announcement was made today (Monday) following a meeting of the RLIF Board held over the weekend in Singapore. Heading the agenda was progressing finalisation of a long range calendar of international matches and tournaments. This came just weeks after the RLIF reacted with “surprise” to proposals from the Australian Rugby League Commission (ARLC) for reform of the international calendar, stating they represented a substantial shift from previous thinking.

The Board today said it received submissions on the calendar from the ARLC, the New Zealand Rugby League (NZRL), the Rugby Football League (RFL), the Asia Pacific Rugby League Confederation (APRLC) and the Rugby League European Federation (RLEF), together with proposals from RLIF executives.

Aside from locking down matches for the top ranking nations over the long term, the new international calendar is seeking to afford a platform that will allow developing nations to compete against the top teams.

The Board agreed to undertake consultation with stakeholders to finalise the details for the next two four-year cycles to present to its planned World Rugby League Congress in the UK in November. The plan includes the 2021 and 2025 World Cups, which will be hosted in England and the United States and Canada, respectively.

A Lions tour to the southern hemisphere has been pencilled in for 2019 and 2024. The Lions last played a competitive match in 2007 andNRL.com said next year’s tour would include Tests against Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea and possibly another Pacific nation.

New Zealand would tour the UK in 2018 and 2022, with Australia travelling over in 2020. Australia v New Zealand Tests would be pencilled in annually from 2018 to 2022, with New Zealand taking part in fixtures in the southern hemisphere in 2020.

A 9s World Cup has been listed for 2019 and 2023. A Championship for the Pacific nations in a mid and end of season format has been proposed for next year, with a European Championship to be held on a biennial basis from 2018.

The Board also agreed that World Cup qualifying competitions will “expand organically” and begin earlier due to the “increase in aspiration” from the growing membership.

RLIF chairman John Grant said: “There’s clearly still some detail to be finalised, but this is a fantastic announcement that has been a long time coming. It should give great heart and confidence to our international community.

“It reflects the broad diversity that exists across our RLIF member nations and we believe it can provide the certainty our fans, players and commercial stakeholders need to make long term commitments to international rugby league.”

The Board also endorsed a proposal from RLIF chief executive Nigel Wood to commence stakeholder engagement to review the process and criteria it applies to sanctioning international matches. This follows a commitment made by Grant (pictured) in June prior to the Test held in the US city of Denver between New Zealand and England. 

The review will be led by Wood and will seek input from a broad range of stakeholders including national federations, major leagues, professional and semi-professional clubs, players and their association representatives and industry experts.

Wood said: “This is a very significant piece of work that will provide consistency and benchmarks to which our nations must aspire to ensure international rugby league performs at the levels our players, clubs and fans expect. The Denver Test exposed all of us alike to this performance standard and has been a positive catalyst for this review.”

[Dave T]

30 minutes ago, roughyedspud said:

https://www.sportbusiness.com/sport-news/rlif-details-future-vision-international-calendar

 

 

With respect, we have heard it all before, and you have been suckered in plenty of times, telling us all about these tournaments that are going to happen, that haven't happened.

[MattSantos]

So where can i buy tickets for this tour?

Im tempted to go Japan instead for the World Cup. 

[Mattrhino]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

With respect, we have heard it all before, and you have been suckered in plenty of times, telling us all about these tournaments that are going to happen, that haven't happened.

Yet no one ever gets held to account. RL media do nothing 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

Yes. And the reason they are called TeamGB, is that they are made up of British members. Not just English or Scottish, a mixture if you like.

Whereas GB RL is actually 100% English, and plays no games other than certain parts of England.

It shouldn't be though, I always thought that the administration of the RFL sat on their ***** with how the game was in the 50's, very popular, big crowds, and plenty of money. There was a lot of ready made players in Wales, because of the rules of both codes the transition was much easier in those days, the game should have made a concerted effort to take the game to them in those times instead of just enticing individuals away, a proper prepared succesful programme of expansion into Wales, could have been replecated in both Scotland and Ireland, but sadly the administration of those days just wallowed in the success of their own little world, if only, the game could have been so much bigger and better.

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

Yes. And the reason they are called TeamGB, is that they are made up of British members. Not just English or Scottish, a mixture if you like.

Whereas GB RL is actually 100% English, and plays no games other than certain parts of England.

By your standard then if the best stand off in the world was born in Wales then he would not be eligible just because you refuse to let him play because you insist that we be called England?

[Harry Stottle]

53 minutes ago, Dave T said:

With respect, we have heard it all before, and you have been suckered in plenty of times, telling us all about these tournaments that are going to happen, that haven't happened.

Bit unfair that David, if you are directing that remark at Spud, if he qoutes direct information from the "governing body" he is doing nothing but relaying the information given, we have all been suckered in!

If this and other so called boards that run our game where in what I would term as the "normal buisness" world answerable to a shareholder membership, they would have had no confidence applications submitted in their direction long ago and removed from office.

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Bit unfair that David, if you are directing that remark at Spud, if he qoutes direct information from the "governing body" he is doing nothing but relaying the information given, we have all been suckered in!

If this and other so called boards that run our game where in what I would term as the "normal buisness" world answerable to a shareholder membership, they would have had no confidence applications submitted in their direction long ago and removed from office.

If all Spud was doing was relaying info I would agree, but Spud is quite vociferous in telling us where we are wrong and all the info he knows that we don't, so I am perfectly comfortable highlighting these unfulfilled promises!

Of course that aint Spud's fault that these things don't come to fruition, but even here when people are questioning these things he is quoting a press article as gospel.

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

By your standard then if the best stand off in the world was born in Wales then he would not be eligible just because you refuse to let him play because you insist that we be called England?

Not often we agree Rupert but I am riding shotgun for you on this subject, there are not many things I would take from the other oval ball game, but they have kept on the same priciples we had till 2007, seperate the British Isles for the Home Nations and World Cups but for what I term as the ultimate of RL Football being the test series against Aus and NZ bring them together as GB.

Those who say it will only be English player's, could well be correct, but as you say we have no idea what or who the future will bring to the fore, the best stand off, full back, prop etc individually or collectivley, just watch for the knee jerk reaction then if they are refused to represent the international team.

[Rupert Prince]

3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

So where are these non English players going to appear from? There is no long term plan to develop players outside the traditional areas.

RU can call themselves the GB & I Lions because of the fact all of the nations are represented. If every RU Lions player had been English for the last 40 years, do you think the Welsh, Scots and Irish would give a monkeys

Ben Flower is good enough. But all that is not the point. Why should only a part of UK of GB play the whole of Australia.

And I repeat, we play as Team GB in the Olympics.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

5 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Ben Flower is good enough. But all that is not the point. Why should only a part of UK of GB play the whole of Australia.

And I repeat, we play as Team GB in the Olympics.

Are you saying Ben Flower is as good or better than Luke Thompson, the Burgess’, Jame Graham and Chris Hill?

[Bring back GB]

A lot of people missing the point here. The GB brand was exactly that........................a brand..................and a successful and traditional one that should never have been disbanded. One or RL's biggest problems is not respecting tradition. Another example is some of the horrendous "away" kits that most teams play in. Another one is players with their socks down, looks bloody awful.

[Scubby]

18 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Ben Flower is good enough. But all that is not the point. Why should only a part of UK of GB play the whole of Australia.

And I repeat, we play as Team GB in the Olympics.

You do understand the GB was created and existed solely because Scottish and Welsh RU players were poached to play along the M62 corridor and they were simply better than the existing players? When they went away it became 100% English players. Can you name a single Welsh or Scottish born and developed RL player (past or present) that would walk into the current England side of the last 10 years? Not a convert lured from RU - a RL developed Welsh or Scotsman through the system in their countries?

[MattSantos]

41 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

For which I'm getting loads of adverts for online. (Not just here or rugby related things) And we're here not even knowing what is or isn't happening.

Yep. I have x amount of time and y amount of money to spend. I like to be organised, so book flights etc in advance. I can't do that with RL. I dont even know when the Challenge Cup is next year.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

For which I'm getting loads of adverts for online. (Not just here or rugby related things) And we're here not even knowing what is or isn't happening.

I have adverts for the Japan World Cup popping up all the bloody time everywhere. I have already bought my tickets for the Cricket World Cup. The London baseball games are feeling like they should already have announced pricing & they play in June - however they have a functioning website and presence, and are backed by Major League Baseball.

How we can *every time* leave it to the last possible minute to do anything is beyond me.

[Harry Stottle]

50 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You do understand the GB was created and existed solely because Scottish and Welsh RU players were poached to play along the M62 corridor and they were simply better than the existing players? When they went away it became 100% English players. Can you name a single Welsh or Scottish born and developed RL player (past or present) that would walk into the current England side of the last 10 years? Not a convert lured from RU - a RL developed Welsh or Scotsman through the system in their countries?

I have never heard the name The English Rugby Football League or indeed The Great Britian Rugby Football League, but irrespective of where players come from those born in the British Isles are ply their trade in and are representative of The Rugby Football League and playing in test series against Aus and NZ is the pinnicle of their chosen profession, if such player's come onto the scene should they be denied such a privaledge as represnting the best available team from British Nationals the RFL could select?

As Rupert suggests, did you not cheer on the British Curling team or the British No 1 Tennis player in the Olympics or were your favours strictly restricted to English Nationals?

[Scubby]

13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I have never heard the name The English Rugby Football League or indeed The Great Britian Rugby Football League, but irrespective of where players come from those born in the British Isles are ply their trade in and are representative of The Rugby Football League and playing in test series against Aus and NZ is the pinnicle of their chosen profession, if such player's come onto the scene should they be denied such a privaledge as represnting the best available team from British Nationals the RFL could select?

As Rupert suggests, did you not cheer on the British Curling team or the British No 1 Tennis player in the Olympics or were your favours strictly restricted to English Nationals?

Sorry Harry that is nonesense. I supported GB as a kid because it made sense - Davies, Devereaux, Ford, Tait etc. running around. To say GB RL of 2018 would be the equivalent the Olympic Team is ridiculous. It is 100% English and likely to be for the next 10-20+ years. It doesn't play outside England and has never produced a non-English developed Welsh or Scottish international outside of poached RU exiles.

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Sorry Harry that is nonesense. I supported GB as a kid because it made sense - Davies, Devereaux, Ford, Tait etc. running around. To say GB RL of 2018 would be the equivalent the Olympic Team is ridiculous. It is 100% English and likely to be for the next 10-20+ years. It doesn't play outside England and has never produced a non-English developed Welsh or Scottish international outside of poached RU exiles.

Devereaux for GB never made sense.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Scubby said:

Sorry Harry that is nonesense. I supported GB as a kid because it made sense - Davies, Devereaux, Ford, Tait etc. running around. To say GB RL of 2018 would be the equivalent the Olympic Team is ridiculous. It is 100% English and likely to be for the next 10-20+ years. It doesn't play outside England and has never produced a non-English developed Welsh or Scottish international outside of poached RU exiles.

OK Subby, whatever you say of the situation, you obviously have a crystal ball (lottery numbers please) that no one of other than English birth in these isles will ever be good enough for a combined home nations representative team for up to 20 years, you may very well be correct, me, well I would prefare to have the insurance of utilizing the opportunity should it arise and it would also be reward for the player(s) good enough to grace such a team.

Grace did I say, who knows young Regan has been a regular first team player less than 2 seasons and getting better as time passes, not 22 years old yet, he may prove very good, he has come from nowhere, who says there wont be another couple or more? But lets go your way and slam the door shut, best policy.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Johnoco said:

Well let's call it Europe or even the Northern Hemisphere in case one day a player comes along from Outer Mongolia.

People might have cheered the curling team because they were part of a wider Olympic wide experience, not because they were specifically into curling. A RL team playing a series of games is specifically about RL with no other attractions. That's enough for us possibly but people who don't know about it in Scotland or Wales, aren't going to suddenly care if some English guys playing in Hull call themselves GB because they used to do it in the past. 

That does not make any sense whatsoever, I recognise all the words but nessacarily in the order you placed them. 

[17 stone giant]

I don't think it matters too much whether we play always as GB, or whether we play as England. There are pros and cons with both options, but what matters most is to pick one, stick with it, and really promote it.

I think the reason the RFL are doing it, is because they want to still sometimes use the iconic shirt and Lion badge. It's as if when they chose to play as England ten years ago, they didn't fully commit to it. They couldn't let go of GB, and so we've now got this proposed compromise if you like, whereby GB will reappear every four years.

The problem is that it does look slightly farcical when, in terms of players on the field, the GB team is identical to the England team. I think this is made worse by the fact that there doesn't seem to be any clear aim that GB has been brought back for. For example, GB hasn't come back to play Australia for The Ashes. It's back just to tour the southern hemisphere, but without any real plan. We don't know who we're even going to be playing yet.

Is it just going to end being the case that every four years, the England players put on a GB shirt and play random tour matches in the southern hemisphere? If so, it's hard to see what that is really achieving. Furthermore, it's kind of devaluing the GB Lions tradition if you're including players in a quota system, who otherwise wouldn't be deemed good enough for selection. I don't like the idea that a player can get listed as having been a Lion, alongside the likes of Ellery Hanley and the other great players, and yet their reason for being included is not because they were a great player, but because we wanted to include so many Scots in the squad. That's not how I want to see the GB shirt treated.

[17 stone giant]

5 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Of course it does. One is a fact, ie the team is English. The other is suggesting it contains Welsh, Irish or Scottish players -it's dishonest.

It's not dishonest at all. Playing as Great Britain is perfectly legitimate. It's simply saying that these are the 13 best players that we currently have in Great Britain. Ideally it would be good to have players from all three countries that make up Great Britain (we've had Welsh and Scottish players in the past, and there might be some again in the future), but it's not essential. There isn't a necessity for every GB team in every sport, to have representatives from each of the three countries. That's just you putting in an artificial requirement. It's no different from saying that calling the team Australia is dishonest, if a situation existed where all the players were from Queensland and NSW. It doesn't follow that there needs to be players from all Australian States, in order for the team to represent Australia. Last night it wasn't Northern England vs France, even though I doubt any of the team was from anywhere other than the north. Besides, you have to remember that if someone in Scotland isn't going to support GB, because there aren't any Scottish players in the team, well, that person certainly isn't going to support England. So, what have we really lost anyway? It's not as if we've got thriving Scotland and Wales teams that would lose out if GB was brought back. And even if GB did return on a permanent basis, we could still arrange matches for Scotland and Wales, should there be enough interest from players and fans to do so.

[wilsontown]

If we're having an issue that currently a GB team picked on merit would just be England in disguise, why not have quotas from the home nations? E.g. each of the four nations has to have at least three players in the 17. So it might not be the best GB side you could theoretically put out, but it would not just be England and it would surely help the development of the best Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish players.

[17 stone giant]

8 minutes ago, wilsontown said:

If we're having an issue that currently a GB team picked on merit would just be England in disguise, why not have quotas from the home nations? E.g. each of the four nations has to have at least three players in the 17. So it might not be the best GB side you could theoretically put out, but it would not just be England and it would surely help the development of the best Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish players.

That's an option, but for me it would completely devalue the tradition and the prestige of being selected to represent Great Britain. GB in the past was about selecting the best 13 players we had, irrespective of whereabouts in GB they were from. Let's be realistic, English players are likely to dominate any GB team anyway, given that English people make up around 84% of the UK population.