Lions tour 2019 (Merged Threads)

[Man of Kent]

The Sun reports the tour will kick off against Tonga followed by two Tests v New Zealand with midweek games against Samoa and Fiji in between.

All five games will be played in New Zealand - probably Auckland & Wellington and possibly the South Island too (Christchurch?). Then it’s off to PNG to play a sixth game against the Kumuls.

Wayne Bennett to coach.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/7715601/great-britain-set-to-face-tonga-in-new-zealand-in-first-test-for-12-years/

[gingerjon]

7 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

The Sun reports the tour will kick off against Tonga followed by two Tests v New Zealand with midweek games against Samoa and Fiji in between.

All five games will be played in New Zealand - probably Auckland & Wellington and possibly the South Island too (Christchurch?). Then it’s off to PNG to play a sixth game against the Kumuls.

Wayne Bennett to coach.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/7715601/great-britain-set-to-face-tonga-in-new-zealand-in-first-test-for-12-years/

I'd like the details confirmed and I see absolutely no reason why that has to be GB not England but ... that seems like a decent, if demanding, tour. I can see us getting stomped on by PNG though - they'll be up for it and we'll be shattered.

[Harry Stottle]

31 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I'd like the details confirmed and I see absolutely no reason why that has to be GB not England but ... that seems like a decent, if demanding, tour. I can see us getting stomped on by PNG though - they'll be up for it and we'll be shattered.

I know it's been done to death, but very interesting to hear the opinions of JJB and Brian Noble on the Red Button yesterday, both very much in favour of the GB resurrection.

[MatthewWoody]

On 10/19/2018 at 2:57 PM, Johnoco said:

If it had players like Flowers and Grace, don't you think there might be grounds for optimism that they could get a decent team together given the will?

Instead all we hear is that there's no point and they should play for GB. If it takes 20-30 years to get a strong Wales team, then that's how it is. But I'll bet my wage that in 30 years the descendants of us on this board will be having roughly the same conversation.

I really can't see any damage if they 2 are given a chance to tour the Southern emisphere, say beat the Kiwis or Tonga in front of a proper test rl crowd, and then bring back the experience gained to the Welsh team the follow seasons.

[EastLondonMike]

My theory on this, which has no basis at all, just a thought, is that this has been pitched as a 'proper' GB team, which would definitely include some Welsh/Irish/Scottish player selections. And as such the Aussies have decided they would absolutely destroy such a team (which the would) and could/would not want to try and sell this to the Aussie RL public. Aussie fans would not come out to support such tests with the knowledge they would walk it.

Tonga and NZ are craving games. NZ want more in NZ, and Tonga just want more, so naturally they're happy with such a team coming over. But once Tonga and NZ also beat this (possibly) forced GB team, that will in all likelihood signal the death of the GB project, unless they then decide to just pick the best available, which then makes it an England team in GB colours, which is pointless.

[brooza]

If this is a proper GB team and has at least token players from Scotland and Ireland, what does that mean for their RLWC 2021 qualification matches next year?

[MatthewWoody]

25 minutes ago, brooza said:

If this is a proper GB team and has at least token players from Scotland and Ireland, what does that mean for their RLWC 2021 qualification matches next year?

My opinion is that given Scotland/Ireland involvment in the qualifiers, it will just be England + Wales

[17 stone giant]

2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

The Sun reports the tour will kick off against Tonga followed by two Tests v New Zealand with midweek games against Samoa and Fiji in between.

All five games will be played in New Zealand - probably Auckland & Wellington and possibly the South Island too (Christchurch?). Then it’s off to PNG to play a sixth game against the Kumuls.

Wayne Bennett to coach.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/7715601/great-britain-set-to-face-tonga-in-new-zealand-in-first-test-for-12-years/

Having read that article in The Sun, I very much hope that the RFL will drop the Ireland/Irish part of the team name, along with the British Isles XIII badge that contains the Irish clover thing.

It's fairly clear that nobody is going to show the Ireland/Irish part of this team any respect at all, so let's not embarrass ourselves by arrogantly persisting with including them. This is the Great Britain Lions. All we need is the Lion badge on the shirt.

Regarding the tour itinerary, apart from being mad and feeling insulted that the Australians (shame on them) won't play us, I'm actually looking forward to us playing against five different teams. I also like that it has both weekend and midweek matches, so the action will be coming thick and fast. It will be a good few weeks of rugby league.

[MatthewWoody]

GB / England whoever it is, a game vs Tonga in Auckland must be interesting after that semifinal.

[Allora]

This Game..............
It sets itself up to fail again and again.

 

[Nate90]

If the tour does include token 'Non English' players who would you have in the team?

At the top of my head I can only really think of Ben Flower and Regan Grace who are playing at a high enough standard.

[17 stone giant]

1 hour ago, EastLondonMike said:

My theory on this, which has no basis at all, just a thought, is that this has been pitched as a 'proper' GB team, which would definitely include some Welsh/Irish/Scottish player selections. And as such the Aussies have decided they would absolutely destroy such a team (which the would) and could/would not want to try and sell this to the Aussie RL public. Aussie fans would not come out to support such tests with the knowledge they would walk it.

If that's the case, it's completely unnecessary. The Great Britain Lions team that we put out to play Australia, New Zealand, and possibly Tonga, could be picked on merit. If that means it's all English players, then so be it. We need our strongest 13 out in order to be competitive.

The matches against the three (with no disrespect intended) weaker teams (Fiji, Samoa, PNG) could then be the ones that were used to give the Welsh and Scottish players an opportunity to play (it would still probably have a core of English players, but maybe two Scots and four Welsh, perhaps). It would be a bit like how the RU Lions have a test team (consisting of their best players) and a midweek team.

I'm simply not accepting the excuses being put forward by the Aussies. They should be playing us. Even if they don't care about us reforming as GB, they should still find time for one match, purely for the good of the game.

 

[nadera78]

34 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

GB / England whoever it is, a game vs Tonga in Auckland must be interesting after that semifinal.

You spend a lot of time on here, in dual-national discussions, telling people they shouldn't tell others what nationality they should feel. So...perhaps stay out of the England/GB thing and don't tell us what it should be or how it should be fielded or how we should feel about it? 

[17 stone giant]

2 minutes ago, Nate90 said:

If the tour does include token 'Non English' players who would you have in the team?

At the top of my head I can only really think of Ben Flower and Regan Grace who are playing at a high enough standard.

As I said above, in my opinion you have to treat each match separately.

I'd be putting out our strongest 13 against NZ and Tonga, which probably means all English players.

Against Fiji, Samoa, and PNG, we can give an opportunity to the remaining squad members. Without knowing how many Scottish and Welsh players will be in the squad, it's hard to say how many I'd include in each of those matches.

[MatthewWoody]

10 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

You spend a lot of time on here, in dual-national discussions, telling people they shouldn't tell others what nationality they should feel. So...perhaps stay out of the England/GB thing and don't tell us what it should be or how it should be fielded or how we should feel about it? 

Very respectful, well done

[GeordieSaint]

46 minutes ago, Allora said:

This Game..............
It sets itself up to fail again and again.

How so in this case? I am not a fan of the concept.

[brooza]

3 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

My opinion is that given Scotland/Ireland involvment in the qualifiers, it will just be England + Wales

Maybe call it GB Knights, then...

[Southerner80]

2 hours ago, Nate90 said:

If the tour does include token 'Non English' players who would you have in the team?

At the top of my head I can only really think of Ben Flower and Regan Grace who are playing at a high enough standard.

If it must, and personally I would just pick the best players English or not

Grace, Knowles, Flower, Tierney all spring to mind as all are good SL players.

Add as a maverick curve ball Jackson Hastings... It's GB so why not pick him on Grand parents rule and see if there are another 1 or 2 who could play? Saves the RFL on airfares if some of em are already down under! Can we please have Tyson Frizell as he played for Wales? (seriously it's a question) or Coote if he has a blinder this year for Saints.... 

Tbh if different players are picked and the team play a different style it will help the brand and make it more interesting... 

I wonder how many players they will take? As all have to be paid and you know how RFL can be.. I would think a 30 man squad would be nice however that probably means too many not getting games..... Will there be midweek games? 

As for what this means for the qualifying of Ireland and Scotland, my honest view is with most players unless they are very very in touch with their heritage and opposed to a GB side (a Irish man might be) they would tour with GB and then go to the WC with whoever picks them, with the tier 1 nations being first choice.  For example would Tierney play for England and over Scotland if they want him or Coote for Oz or Scotland, or LMS for Ireland or England? 

Players want to play at the top level they can I feel, and in the best team.

Lastly can they please play the Maori and ideally the Indigenous Oz team say in Townsville? Surely they would draw a crowd there... 

[17 stone giant]

If you're a heritage player wanting to be considered for Great Britain and Ireland Lions selection, then I think you need to have demonstrated a regular commitment to your nation (Scotland, Wales, Ireland) first. We can't have players turning up for GB selection, and then again for their nation at the World Cup, before disappearing the rest of the time when the less glamourous matches come along.

[yipyee]

7 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

If that's the case, it's completely unnecessary. The Great Britain Lions team that we put out to play Australia, New Zealand, and possibly Tonga, could be picked on merit. If that means it's all English players, then so be it. We need our strongest 13 out in order to be competitive.

The matches against the three (with no disrespect intended) weaker teams (Fiji, Samoa, PNG) could then be the ones that were used to give the Welsh and Scottish players an opportunity to play (it would still probably have a core of English players, but maybe two Scots and four Welsh, perhaps). It would be a bit like how the RU Lions have a test team (consisting of their best players) and a midweek team.

I'm simply not accepting the excuses being put forward by the Aussies. They should be playing us. Even if they don't care about us reforming as GB, they should still find time for one match, purely for the good of the game.

 

If it's GB there should be a minimum 5 from each country.

A 30 man squad with a first string and second string should see everyone get a game and remain competitive.

I would even play France in France before heading off in tour.

The Aussies turning their back on this might be a good thing for the game as it's win win.  If it's a success then the Aussies missed out and will be interested next time with a full tour of Australia.

If it's a failure the GB project can be burried for good and we can get on with normal games as England 

[yipyee]

7 hours ago, Nate90 said:

If the tour does include token 'Non English' players who would you have in the team?

At the top of my head I can only really think of Ben Flower and Regan Grace who are playing at a high enough standard.

Defiantly Flower and Grace, rhys williams, kear and Emmit. Poss Lloyd white

Scott Grix and Liam Finn

From Scotland just Coote. In fact I would include 3 amateur players to encourage the game in Scotland

From England I would take the knights squad. Give the first team a year off to recover

 

[DavidM]

It’s not school sports . You pick your best players that’s it or it’s devalued to start 

[Man of Kent]

10 hours ago, EastLondonMike said:

My theory on this, which has no basis at all, just a thought, is that this has been pitched as a 'proper' GB team, which would definitely include some Welsh/Irish/Scottish player selections. And as such the Aussies have decided they would absolutely destroy such a team (which the would) and could/would not want to try and sell this to the Aussie RL public. Aussie fans would not come out to support such tests with the knowledge they would walk it.

Tonga and NZ are craving games. NZ want more in NZ, and Tonga just want more, so naturally they're happy with such a team coming over. But once Tonga and NZ also beat this (possibly) forced GB team, that will in all likelihood signal the death of the GB project, unless they then decide to just pick the best available, which then makes it an England team in GB colours, which is pointless.

My theory is the midweek games against Samoa, Fiji and possibly PNG will have more non-England players than against New Zealand and Tonga 

[17 stone giant]

8 minutes ago, DavidM said:

It’s not school sports . You pick your best players that’s it or it’s devalued to start 

If we're just going to pick our best players for every match, then the whole thing is a waste of time. The only point in playing as Great Britain and Ireland, is to give experience to players who aren't already involved in the England set-up - and especially to players from Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, because they don't have the opportunities elsewhere.

Yes, that devalues it in some respects, but this tour isn't solely about winning matches. There is a bigger picture to be considered.

[Lobbygobbler]

9 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

Having read that article in The Sun, I very much hope that the RFL will drop the Ireland/Irish part of the team name, along with the British Isles XIII badge that contains the Irish clover thing.

It's fairly clear that nobody is going to show the Ireland/Irish part of this team any respect at all, so let's not embarrass ourselves by arrogantly persisting with including them. This is the Great Britain Lions. All we need is the Lion badge on the shirt.

Regarding the tour itinerary, apart from being mad and feeling insulted that the Australians (shame on them) won't play us, I'm actually looking forward to us playing against five different teams. I also like that it has both weekend and midweek matches, so the action will be coming thick and fast. It will be a good few weeks of rugby league.

The clover was always on GB shirts from at least the 30s through to the 70’s as part of the beautiful ornate lions badge with the red rose, daffodil and thistle