Lions tour 2019 (Merged Threads)

[ghost crayfish]

I'd like the NRL to actually come out and explain why they're not hosting at least one game against GB. Surely they could go close to filling Newcastle or Canberra  stadiums if Sydney isn't interested and Brisbane is too expensive (as were the reasons given for not playing Tonga in Australia). 

[Harry Stottle]

When the return of GB was first mooted to tour down under, I was all set for going as it was to be a test series against Aus with some mid week games as appetizers, the schedule that has now been chosen is to me like expecting to go out to be dined at a Michelin starred restaurant, to find it closed and having to do with calling at the chippy on the way home, I wonder how many more have been put off as I have?

[JM2010]

I still think they should play at least one game against a combined Pacific Nations team.

I also would have preferred Australia but this would be the second best option for me

[17 stone giant]

7 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

I'd like the NRL to actually come out and explain why they're not hosting at least one game against GB. Surely they could go close to filling Newcastle or Canberra  stadiums if Sydney isn't interested and Brisbane is too expensive (as were the reasons given for not playing Tonga in Australia). 

Or Perth, maybe? They're hosting Origin in 2019, so why not build upon that with an Aus vs GB test there?

[ghost crayfish]

Yeah exactly. I imagine the NRL has a reason for not wanting one - presumably related to lack of corporate support or public demand, but I'd just like them to explain it!

[JM2010]

7 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

the combined Pac Islands team could be huge.

The lions tour is sold as the greatest challenge for an RL side. I honestly think that this could be sold in both hemispheres as that for us.

I agree. GB is potentially a combined side so playing a combined PI side would be a massive challenge. This would also add a bit more spice to the Pacific tests as they would be playing for a spot in the combined team

[gingerjon]

This is all going as well as expected then.

[Abicus]

So, how about some dates soon hey?

[Southerner80]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

This is all going as well as expected then.

Sadly I agree. We have no dates or games arranged as yet. Yet its only 10-11 months away and there are big logistics and costs given the travel involved. 

This does not seem a good idea tbh beyond say a 2 match v NZ 1 match v  Tonga series.   4 weeks maximum in NZ.

I am beginning to worry how this will be paid for and what it is going to do for our Sports development. 

Tbh the island teams have great players but will never bring revenue to the table hence putting all this together very hard as so few people can guarantee money...... Its always in RL going to be driven by a strong England Oz NZ and growing a French presence. 

I also like Ghost Crayfish would like the NRL to say why they dislike a Lions game so much...... Maybe they see it as a brand from the past which does not fit their market aims..... As frankly if GB were good and won a couple of series in a row the Oz public may actually care.... If this unlikely event did happen it may not help The NRL.... food for thought.

 

[Allora]

2 hours ago, Southerner80 said:

Sadly I agree. We have no dates or games arranged as yet. Yet its only 10-11 months away and there are big logistics and costs given the travel involved. 

This does not seem a good idea tbh beyond say a 2 match v NZ 1 match v  Tonga series.   4 weeks maximum in NZ.

I am beginning to worry how this will be paid for and what it is going to do for our Sports development. 

Tbh the island teams have great players but will never bring revenue to the table hence putting all this together very hard as so few people can guarantee money...... Its always in RL going to be driven by a strong England Oz NZ and growing a French presence. 

I also like Ghost Crayfish would like the NRL to say why they dislike a Lions game so much...... Maybe they see it as a brand from the past which does not fit their market aims..... As frankly if GB were good and won a couple of series in a row the Oz public may actually care.... If this unlikely event did happen it may not help The NRL.... food for thought.

 

I can not find the link but it was stated they thought it would be a flop and lose money.

I agree with this sentiment, Great Britain would not sell well in Australia anymore, the wheel has turned a long time ago.

The Kangaroos wanted to tour GB but the Lions Tour was pushed through.

[Southerner80]

8 minutes ago, Allora said:

I can not find the link but it was stated they thought it would be a flop and lose money.

I agree with this sentiment, Great Britain would not sell well in Australia anymore, the wheel has turned a long time ago.

The Kangaroos wanted to tour GB but the Lions Tour was pushed through.

This makes sense. Tbh if OZ wanted to tour the UK we here in SL should have gone with that. 

People like me, I guess need to remember that the Lions of 1990 era is another world.. There was no NRL or pro RL back then. Times have changed alot. 

Let's hope something can be sorted. Given this is RL organisation of a tour at 6 months notice would not be unusual! 

I would like to watch Oz v England in London next year if possible!

[17 stone giant]

1 hour ago, Allora said:

Great Britain would not sell well in Australia anymore, the wheel has turned a long time ago.

Could you please explain more what you mean by that? Is it because you always win that there is currently very little interest? If, say, the Ashes was brought back and GB/England won a home series, would that create a demand in Australia to host a series to try and win them back? Or would Australia RL fans still not be bothered?

I would imagine that whether we're playing as GB or as England, is kind of irrelevant to Australian fans. They know about rugby league, and they know that as things stand the two teams would be the same group of players. It's not as if playing GB is more special than playing England, due to the presence of four or five brilliant Scottish and Welsh players in the team. That is what we might hope for the future, but right now it's sadly not the case.

 

 

[Rupert Prince]

10 hours ago, JM2010 said:

I agree. GB is potentially a combined side so playing a combined PI side would be a massive challenge. This would also add a bit more spice to the Pacific tests as they would be playing for a spot in the combined team

Played in Honolulu??

[GeordieSaint]

On 11/28/2018 at 11:16 AM, Southerner80 said:

This makes sense. Tbh if OZ wanted to tour the UK we here in SL should have gone with that. 

People like me, I guess need to remember that the Lions of 1990 era is another world.. There was no NRL or pro RL back then. Times have changed alot. 

Let's hope something can be sorted. Given this is RL organisation of a tour at 6 months notice would not be unusual! 

I would like to watch Oz v England in London next year if possible!

England vs Aus next year would have been a shocking idea. We need to sell the RLWC21 and the Aussies visiting our shores in 2020 is the approach to this; one year out, not two...

[Harry Stottle]

On 11/28/2018 at 11:16 AM, Southerner80 said:

This makes sense. Tbh if OZ wanted to tour the UK we here in SL should have gone with that. 

People like me, I guess need to remember that the Lions of 1990 era is another world.. There was no NRL or pro RL back then. Times have changed alot. 

Let's hope something can be sorted. Given this is RL organisation of a tour at 6 months notice would not be unusual! 

I would like to watch Oz v England in London next year if possible!

I would have liked to have watched Oz v Gt Britain in Sydney and Brisbane!

[Allora]

On 11/28/2018 at 10:57 PM, 17 stone giant said:

Could you please explain more what you mean by that? Is it because you always win that there is currently very little interest? If, say, the Ashes was brought back and GB/England won a home series, would that create a demand in Australia to host a series to try and win them back? Or would Australia RL fans still not be bothered?

I would imagine that whether we're playing as GB or as England, is kind of irrelevant to Australian fans. They know about rugby league, and they know that as things stand the two teams would be the same group of players. It's not as if playing GB is more special than playing England, due to the presence of four or five brilliant Scottish and Welsh players in the team. That is what we might hope for the future, but right now it's sadly not the case.

 

 

I do not think Great Britain is a brand that gets Australians enthusiastic.

It may mean a lot to British people but not so much to Aussies.

The fact it will almost certainly be the English team called Great Britain will only make make the well informed Australian fans think its a strange concept that they will not buy into.

The poor attendances at last years World Cup had plenty of reasons why it was not embraced but one of those reasons was Oz fans do not buy into contrived teams, teams that are half Heritage stacked with second generation Aussies.

The same would apply to the Great Britain tour, its the  England team on a nostalgia trip from the geniuses that run English Rugby League.

 

 

[yanto]

33 minutes ago, Allora said:

 fans do not buy into contrived teams, teams that are half Heritage stacked with second generation Aussies.

 

 

 

Yet SOO is the be all and end all of the game .

Yep not a second generation Aussie in sight ???

[Southerner80]

43 minutes ago, Allora said:

I do not think Great Britain is a brand that gets Australians enthusiastic.

It may mean a lot to British people but not so much to Aussies.

The fact it will almost certainly be the English team called Great Britain will only make make the well informed Australian fans think its a strange concept that they will not buy into.

The poor attendances at last years World Cup had plenty of reasons why it was not embraced but one of those reasons was Oz fans do not buy into contrived teams, teams that are half Heritage stacked with second generation Aussies.

The same would apply to the Great Britain tour, its the  England team on a nostalgia trip from the geniuses that run English Rugby League.

 

 

I get your points and I agree the Oz public may have issues with how many Aussie born players represent other nations, however I wonder if the biggest factor in lack of interest is the feeling that Aus will always win.... Or even if not always, will win 80% of the time v NZ and England their two recent history rivals, (France were strong up till the 80s) and see off the rest bar this present Tonga outfit fairly easily. 

Do you think for example if we had a Aus team v GB, after a world Cup Aus had lost there would have been more interest? 

[damp squib]

1 hour ago, Southerner80 said:

Do you think for example if we had a Aus team v GB, after a world Cup Aus had lost there would have been more interest? 

Even if this theory were correct, it would have been England that Australia lost to in this hypothetical World Cup, not Great Britain, so the revenge narrative for a series wouldn't exist.

This is what no one has been able to explain to non-British folk - why would the rest of the world get exited about a re-branded England? The question isn't why don't Australia want to play GB, but why would they?

[Southerner80]

4 minutes ago, damp squib said:

Even if this theory were correct, it would have been England that Australia lost to in this hypothetical World Cup, not Great Britain, so the revenge narrative for a series wouldn't exist.

This is what no one has been able to explain to non-British folk - why would the rest of the world get exited about a re-branded England? The question isn't why don't Australia want to play GB, but why would they?

So would a English team that are winning regularly v Oz and claim the mantle of worlds best, be capable of drawing a crowd? 

What I'm getting at is do you think the Oz public are not so interested as they see it as lower level rugby to NRL and SOO or its a case of the love for RL is as a Aussie thing within the confines of NSW v QLD.... And this is what it's really about..... 

Interesting topic this, about whether it's the best competition that counts or the one that we engage with emotionally. 

[damp squib]

4 minutes ago, Southerner80 said:

So would a English team that are winning regularly v Oz and claim the mantle of worlds best, be capable of drawing a crowd? 

What I'm getting at is do you think the Oz public are not so interested as they see it as lower level rugby to NRL and SOO or its a case of the love for RL is as a Aussie thing within the confines of NSW v QLD.... And this is what it's really about..... 

Interesting topic this, about whether it's the best competition that counts or the one that we engage with emotionally. 

I'll leave it to the Aussies to confirm but I suspect they see international RL as a lower level and in general they would be correct.

My point was focusing more on the idea that Great Britain is a different or more attractive prospect than England.

[ghost crayfish]

I think lot of Aussie league fans support their clubs, rather than the game, if that makes sense. Particularly Sydney supporters, I find, tend to follow all codes. In the NRL, they have their club and Origin, and don't care about test footy or the game more broadly... and through soccer, rugby union and cricket, they get their fill of international sport. Origin is a huge deal here because it sets us apart from the biggest club comp, AFL. But test footy suffers in comparison to those other sports. I also think the November window doesn't really work for a lot of supporters. After the grand final, we're sort of programmed to stop caring - particularly when games are played here that time of year, it does feel odd. The sports media focus is on cricket, and rugby league feels like an afterthought. Still, that's how it is now, so we have to make it work.

Right now we have a big chance to turn it around - a weaker Australia team, and stronger NZ, England and now Tonga mean it is more competitive than any time in recent memory. With the Wallabies so rubbish right now, this is our chance in Australia to recapture that international interest for league. But it'll take time and effort (and luck) because I think it's really entrenched apathy we're talking about. A lot of casual league fans I know (usually from Sydney, only care about their club) roll their eyes at test footy, and are surprised to learn league even exists at a pro level in England, or is even played in France! We need years of sustained quality test footy, with regular losses and genuine superstars performing for the opposition, to turn it around. The 9s here are a good idea, because in a condensed format, it'll get those casual fans seeing the proof one after another - players from Fiji, France, Wales etc all performing at a good level.

[17 stone giant]

All RL organisers/administrators should be made to watch this video, because THIS is what RL can do at its very best: Wembley Stadium, capacity crowd (or not far off), amazing passion from the fans and players, fantastic action, brilliant occasion. I know not every game can be a world cup final, but I could have posted several Ashes matches from 1990 or 1994 that wouldn't have been too different to this. I'm hoping that 2020 will see the Ashes reborn and treated with the respect that it deserves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dxQtff761w

[Harry Stottle]

8 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

All RL organisers/administrators should be made to watch this video, because THIS is what RL can do at its very best: Wembley Stadium, capacity crowd (or not far off), amazing passion from the fans and players, fantastic action, brilliant occasion. I know not every game can be a world cup final, but I could have posted several Ashes matches from 1990 or 1994 that wouldn't have been too different to this. I'm hoping that 2020 will see the Ashes reborn and treated with the respect that it deserves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dxQtff761w

Was that really 26 years ago, what a spectacle and an atmosphere to be part of, I attended all 4 of the games between these two teams in '92 and they were really something to behold even the one sided one in Melbourne (couldn't resist that), it was a different game, different era, I have still to be convinced that 10 interchanges makes for a better spectacle.

Got to agree with you Mr Giant, the Ashes series was the iconic part of our game, even those dark days of the 80's series when Australia completely transformed the game and left us miles behind everyone looked forward to the next encounter with relish. 

The change to summer rugby did a great deal of harm to the international game, I know lots of people who were definatley going on the the '96 tour, but the switch in season's scupperd it, I honestly believe if the momentum had been maintained the international game would be in a much better state of health today.

PS only the other day I was talking with a mate re the '92 series and I was saying how we were robbed in the 3rd and deciding test at Lang Park, https://youtu.be/kfK-caXNLCQ not a good highligts of the game but enough to get my point across, look at about 1.38 minutes and you can see Laurie Daly clearly in an off-side position at the play the ball he is knelt down in virtually the British defence line, Daley had grubber kicked for himself and followed it through, but the ball was played at by a British defender and possession was regathered by Aus, BUT, Daley didn't retreat he stayed in the British line as is evident, Fittler took the ball forward went past the Offside Daley who got up from the ground took the ball and scored, I swear there was only me in the crowd who saw it and screamed offside, I couldn't believe it when the try was awarded, those 6 points made a big difference to a 16 - 10 scoreline.

[17 stone giant]

19 hours ago, damp squib said:

This is what no one has been able to explain to non-British folk - why would the rest of the world get exited about a re-branded England? The question isn't why don't Australia want to play GB, but why would they?

I agree with you that there isn't any point to GB returning right now, unless (as I have repeatedly said) it is a permanent return as our national team. It makes no sense to bring GB back for one tour, and then for them to disappear for another four years. That is utter madness, and even more so given the current lack of players from Wales and Scotland.

As for the Aussies not wanting to play GB, I don't agree with your analysis there. It's the same players no matter what we're called. The Aussies know we're a strong team and a worthy opponent (we proved that as recently as last year in the world cup final). I'm not suggesting that they should be especially excited by us playing as GB - there is no reason for them to be - but that isn't the same as them having a reason not to play. We're the biggest other rugby league playing nation, so they absolutely need to explain why they won't play even one match against us when we're in their back yard. We're not talking about them having to travel to us.

Is this just a case of them being stubborn because they didn't get their own way about touring here in 2019? Either way, they need to realise that rugby league is the loser here. Not just GB RL, but rugby league as a sport. It's a missed opportunity and rugby league can't afford to be doing that.