Lions tour 2019 (Merged Threads)

[GeordieSaint]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yup. And it is an important point. No contract, no fixtures announced, no tickets on sale, you are still in discussion stage, irrespective of what fancy press releases you have made.

I remember those press releases about this 8 team tournament that was replacing the Four Nations. I am far angrier about the disappearance of that one.

Now I completely agree with this and an earlier point about the arrangement of the calendar.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, GeordieSaint said:

Have we been stubborn in relation to 2020? I genuinely don’t know... maybe the RLWC21/RFL team already have the Ashes Series organised with grounds booked for 2020? 

I'm pretty confident that in Sept 2018 when these conversations were happening we won't have had a signed off tour with the Kangaroos for 2020 with venues confirmed. In any case, for 2021 we will be selling big venues out for teams other than the Aussies and England, so even if we did want to use some of these big grounds, maybe we should practice with the likes of Tonga and NZ.

[Dave T]

35 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

We had no good options for this year, and if we had swapped we would have had no good options for next year.

Giving up what we wanted and then kicking the problem down the road hoping someone, somewhere can magic up a solution is not a good plan.

And as much as you say all our good options have disappeared for this year, they are no further forward with the pacific cup than the lions tour. The whole thing is a mess

The Pacific cup is an easy thing for them to organise. Much easier than a tour down there. They will put minimal effort and may even stage triple headers at Campbelltown etc!

But they have said they aren't coming here and the Aussies aren't hosting us there. That much is certain and can't be ignored.

[Dave T]

36 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I dont know why you are over-complicating this.

An Ashes series v Australia is the biggest tour option we have. A 2020 Ashes tour allows us to put on the tour that will likely be the best attended and best viewed tour we could put on. We can have it live on the BBC with millions watch. Plaster WC ticket sales all over the thing with the confidence and expectation that more people are going to see it. We then work on immediately selling tickets to as many people who watched and attended those games as possible.

Will it make or break the WC, no. Could it be a big help if the chips fall right? yes very much so. Would it be a bigger help than any other option? Yes of course it would.

We have hosted NZ far more often than we have the Kangaroos, this will be the first ashes test since 2003 and a Tonga tour would quite obviously get nowhere near the visibility or coverage of an Ashes tour.

Yes it would have been nice to do something great this year, but the reason this year is turning in to something of a clusterfsk isnt because of the insistence of playing the ashes in 2020, it was the insistence on playing a lions tour nobody wanted to host.

I think two years of quality tests on these shores are a far better promotion for the World cup than only 1 year. 

Considering nobody wants to host us, or can't make it work financially, it feels like a no brainer for us to grab hold of it and stage quality tests. 

It's like insisting one of your pals hosts a party despite them telling you they have no money for food and drinks, their sound system is broke and their toilet is blocked - but you insist on still going round to party because of a conversation you had a few years earlier. Despite everybody knowing it'll just be rubbish.

[Dave T]

I should add, I'm not against the principle of telling the Aussies to do one, as long as we then went on to have a great tour ourselves (as England) and show that the Aussies are not needed for a successful tour. 

[Dave T]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

But you are assuming that there would be quality tests we could host next year. You are taking a deal nobody offered and complaining that the deal we did take, which was the best on offer was a mistake because we didnt take an imaginary deal

Yes an Ashes tour this year and some fantastic competition next year would be better than a mess this year and an ashes tour next year but that wasnt on offer. Neither side of the world have been able to et up anything yet for this year, this mystery box you want us to take for this year is almost certainly the mess we are seeing now, next year.

We have never had issues with teams coming here. We get decent crowds for international RL.

History has shown this, and this whole argument is because the Aussies want to come here instead of hosting games.

Don't ignore the history. Teams would absolutely come here, like they have for decades.

[ghost crayfish]

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Who is going to come that will have anywhere near the impact of an ashes tour?
A 2nd baskerville shield in 3 years which as they are booked in to tour in 2022 would actually see us having 3 in 5 years.

Can Tonga support a tour? are we bringing numerous teams over? Because none of this was offered.

None of this was offered? What about the proposed 4 Nations:

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/07/12/proposed-changes-to-international-rugby-league-calendar/

I'm not saying this is perfect, but what if the RFL had negotiated in good faith for Tonga or Samoa to come instead of PNG? Would've been a strong 4N to promote the world cup, possibly building on an ashes win. But oh well!

[Dave T]

19 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Who is going to come that will have anywhere near the impact of an ashes tour?
A 2nd baskerville shield in 3 years which as they are booked in to tour in 2022 would actually see us having 3 in 5 years.

Can Tonga support a tour? are we bringing numerous teams over? Because none of this was offered.

I'm not sure why you keep talking about offers. We should be doing the deal making, as tbh it seems like only we can stage successful test series.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

We did make a deal.

I hope we spend the compensation wisely.

[Dave T]

41 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

What are you talking about?

There is no deal without a contract. It is a conversation until then. We have seen time and time again that things get 'agreed', advertised in a press release and then never happen. 

This is added to that list.

[gingerjon]

4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

We did make a deal.

Was there a contract? Was there an MOU?

Cos, if not, we didn't make a deal.

[Dave T]

57 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Was there a contract? Was there an MOU?

Cos, if not, we didn't make a deal.

Cool.

[17 stone giant]

Shame that there is currently so much uncertainty. It's important for the sport to make the most of the international matches that it can stage. Hopefully they'll sort something out soon.

[ghost crayfish]

Interesting article here! 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/8468166/great-britains-comeback-tour-after-12-years-is-set-to-finally-be-confirmed/

Great news if this can be confirmed so we can all move on, and just look forward to it!

That said, I do want to know how/why the NRL was the hold up. I suspect that once again, the RLPA will have been an extremely annoying factor. But I want some journos to explore this properly. Why are end of season test matches apparently so hard to organise?? Is it player demands, clubs, TV issues, stadium hire costs, sponsorship? Player insurance is a new one that gets a run these days... All I know is the constant uncertainty is not good enough, and fans deserve an explanation.

[17 stone giant]

Article suggests that it will be Tonga in Auckland on 26 October and NZ on 2nd November. I wonder what time (UK time) those matches will be played it. Just curious because I notice that a rugby union world cup semi final and then the final kick off at 9am UK time on those two Saturdays. Would be a shame if there's a clash of times, because I know where most peoples attention will be!

Edit: Not forgetting the potential impact on ticket sales in New Zealand, if the All Blacks happen to be playing in the semi final or final at the same time - which is quite likely.

[Yorkshire Knight]

2 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

Why are end of season test matches apparently so hard to organise?? Is it player demands, clubs, TV issues, stadium hire costs, sponsorship? Player insurance is a new one that gets a run these days... All I know is the constant uncertainty is not good enough, and fans deserve an explanation.

The club season runs for way too long especially for such a physical sport so you can understand why there’d be objections to end of season tests. NFL is not the best example but nonetheless its regular season runs for about 4 months and seems to work just fine. Why can’t it be the same in rugby? I’ve said it before, the sport has placed all its eggs in one basket and now wants both sides of the bread buttered. There won’t be a consistent system in place for the international level with the current format. A compromise needs to come in the form of a shortened club season. Question is, whether the game is willing to do that 

[Abicus]

You better believe there will be a TRIPLE HEADER in Auckland:

 

"KANGAROOS-TONGA PART OF TRIPLE TREAT

In another huge boost for international rugby league, the Kangaroos are likely to again play Tonga in November as part of a triple-header in Auckland.

Talks are under way for Australia to play Tonga on the same day New Zealand host England and Fiji take on Samoa.

The triple-header would be staged the week after the World Nines tournament at the new Western Sydney stadium.

It would attract huge media interest after the Melbourne Cup and before the cricket Test season kicks into gear. This is a great result for international rugby league.

No more ridiculous ventures like the failed Denver Test experience of New Zealand v England last season.

The growth of the international game is all about the emerging Pacific nations, Tonga, Samoa and Fiji.

They have to regularly compete on the big stage at the big venues.

They will get stronger and stronger and eventually become tier-one nations."

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/monday-buzz-weekend-highlights-lowlights/news-story/cd9043b102b25f81aad7f7629570c23c

[Man of Kent]

Hang on. England? What happened to Great Britain?!

[Dave T]

Surely for these three games we could get 30k, 20k and 15k individually?

[Abicus]

It is Buzz Rothfield in the daily Telegraph - not like he pays must attention anyway.

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Surely for these three games we could get 30k, 20k and 15k individually?

Yes, but where and who pays? The last Test season showed that no one makes money, so no one wants to put on the Tests.

NZRL has no money and is risk averse. Tonga, Fiji and Samoa (where is PNG) will only play if the NRL covers costs.

Hopefully the Tests are played at Eden Park - but honestly could see them playing at Mt Smart Stadium.

[Harry Stottle]

30 minutes ago, Abicus said:

 

The growth of the international game is all about the emerging Pacific nations, Tonga, Samoa and Fiji.

They have to regularly compete on the big stage at the big venues.

They will get stronger and stronger and eventually become tier-one nations."

 

Off course they will, just as long as up to 2 generations up from the qualifying player's immediate family emigrate to Aus or NZ.

[Damien]

51 minutes ago, Abicus said:

You better believe there will be a TRIPLE HEADER in Auckland:

 

"KANGAROOS-TONGA PART OF TRIPLE TREAT

In another huge boost for international rugby league, the Kangaroos are likely to again play Tonga in November as part of a triple-header in Auckland.

Talks are under way for Australia to play Tonga on the same day New Zealand host England and Fiji take on Samoa.

The triple-header would be staged the week after the World Nines tournament at the new Western Sydney stadium.

It would attract huge media interest after the Melbourne Cup and before the cricket Test season kicks into gear. This is a great result for international rugby league.

No more ridiculous ventures like the failed Denver Test experience of New Zealand v England last season.

The growth of the international game is all about the emerging Pacific nations, Tonga, Samoa and Fiji.

They have to regularly compete on the big stage at the big venues.

They will get stronger and stronger and eventually become tier-one nations."

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/monday-buzz-weekend-highlights-lowlights/news-story/cd9043b102b25f81aad7f7629570c23c

What a joke. So Australia v Tonga sold out easily as a standalone fixture and now we are bundling in 2 more matches.  That is madness. Every year our administrator's take this great game backwards.

[Dave T]

38 minutes ago, Abicus said:

It is Buzz Rothfield in the daily Telegraph - not like he pays must attention anyway.

Yes, but where and who pays? The last Test season showed that no one makes money, so no one wants to put on the Tests.

NZRL has no money and is risk averse. Tonga, Fiji and Samoa (where is PNG) will only play if the NRL covers costs.

Hopefully the Tests are played at Eden Park - but honestly could see them playing at Mt Smart Stadium.

Money can be made off those kind of crowds and decent viewing figures. 

[Scubby]

Triple header at Mount Smart stadium - seriously?  England v NZ (in NZ) becoming a curtain raiser to a Tonga game? WTF

[The Hallucinating Goose]

I'm confused. So is this thing a standalone England game alongside a GB tour or instead of GB? Or is it just Australians calling GB England?