Rupert Prince Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 5 hours ago, RP London said: Its a tough one... the team although referred to as "Team GB" is always announced and listed as "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" which helps to cover the base and then you have the separate Irish team so those from Northern Ireland who "are Irish" can represent them. However the GB Lions supposedly also has Ireland as a whole represented, not just the north, yet there is no mention of it, they will play GSTQ and go under the union flag with no mention of the Irish side.. He would get behind it 100% if they just dropped the pretence of giving a stuff about Ireland.. I am English 100% and support GB as it represents me, though I have major issues with the way this is being done and I tend to agree with the issue around Ireland.. the issue for my son is that he is half irish and that half is from Belfast so its a big thing to say it represents Ireland too, but then they completely ignore it which is wrong. Both of us would be fine if they just went with GB, it's the lip service that's the issue over a country for which this is actually quite a big thing Hello Mr RP, Like you I support the UK of GB. In sporting terms according go the BBC article about this RL tour, the name "British Lions" used by the RL predates the RFU equivalent. The RFU uses the name British Isles ie, including all of Ireland (its always been that in RU terms historically) and not GB or UK of GB. "Our" GB only included Northern Ireland (because ireland was partitioned inbetween the Wars) and was first used in 1947. But as we are saying the real name, as e.g. in the Eurovision Contest, is UK. So the Olympic team uses a wrong misnomer... and we ourselves did in the past by only included NI. Our error I believe is in trying to ape the RFU in including all Ireland but still calling the name GB. As I say at the above outset, I am happy with the GB name, misnomer and all, but it should not include the Republic. But it's all a mess because as an example, the "English" one day cricket team is captained by a Dubliner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughyedspud Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Of course the difference between team GB,the British lions RU is there's actual Welsh,scots, Irish (NI) and English in those teams...GBRL is exclusively English which renders GBRL pointless.. And I've said it for a decade..I WANT GBRL TO TOUR...BUT ONLY WHEN IT REPRESENTS THE GREAT BRITISH ISLES! OLDHAM RLFC the 8TH most successful team in british RL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said: Hello Mr RP, Like you I support the UK of GB. In sporting terms according go the BBC article about this RL tour, the name "British Lions" used by the RL predates the RFU equivalent. The RFU uses the name British Isles ie, including all of Ireland (its always been that in RU terms historically) and not GB or UK of GB. "Our" GB only included Northern Ireland (because ireland was partitioned inbetween the Wars) and was first used in 1947. But as we are saying the real name, as e.g. in the Eurovision Contest, is UK. So the Olympic team uses a wrong misnomer... and we ourselves did in the past by only included NI. Our error I believe is in trying to ape the RFU in including all Ireland but still calling the name GB. As I say at the above outset, I am happy with the GB name, misnomer and all, but it should not include the Republic. But it's all a mess because as an example, the "English" one day cricket team is captained by a Dubliner. Its also problematic when a significant chunk of the Irish RL team qualify through Republic of Ireland heritage but also clearly identify as British/English due to it being the country they were raised in. Its perfectly logical that a Kyle Amor or a Brad Singleton could want to represent Ireland and then also GB in tours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 26 minutes ago, roughyedspud said: Of course the difference between team GB,the British lions RU is there's actual Welsh,scots, Irish (NI) and English in those teams...GBRL is exclusively English which renders GBRL pointless.. And I've said it for a decade..I WANT GBRL TO TOUR...BUT ONLY WHEN IT REPRESENTS THE GREAT BRITISH ISLES! Plus Scotland’s Lachlan Coote!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 18 hours ago, philipw said: Imagine how good that side would be with Sam Burgess, Tommy Makinson and Mark Percival fit Bennett doesn’t rate Percival. He wouldn’t be in the side even if he was with the tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost crayfish Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I'm really disappointed Tomkins hasn't been selected. I actually thought Bennett might be the man to get the best out of him, but apparently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Just now, ghost crayfish said: I'm really disappointed Tomkins hasn't been selected. I actually thought Bennett might be the man to get the best out of him, but apparently not. I agree. And he did well in the New Zealnd series last year as well. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost crayfish Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Just now, Dunbar said: I agree. And he did well in the New Zealnd series last year as well. Yep. I still think he's a class fullback, but also showed last year he could be a world class 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Just now, ghost crayfish said: Yep. I still think he's a class fullback, but also showed last year he could be a world class 7. I guess the arrival of Coote and Hastings has pushed him out of both. Widdop is quality and so was always going to be selected while I am guessing Bennett sees Williams and Trueman as the future. That leaves Tomkins and Lomax vying for the 'utility' spot and Lomax got the nod "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost crayfish Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Yeah and can understand why Lomax won out there. I think my issue with the squad is Coote... But oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 7 hours ago, roughyedspud said: And I've said it for a decade..I WANT GBRL TO TOUR...BUT ONLY WHEN IT REPRESENTS THE GREAT BRITISH ISLES! My argument is that you'll never get a GBRL that represents the 'Great British Isles' until the concept is there for people to aspire to play in. Without it, the vast majority of the best players will just make themselves available for England. FWIW, from my perspective the way they've brought back the Lions this year is ill-considered and a bit of a shambles. I'll still be watching though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said: I think my issue with the squad is Coote... But oh well. On ability or the Australian link? I'm more comfortable with the latter, because he's been playing for Scotland for the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Dunbar said: I guess the arrival of Coote and Hastings has pushed him out of both. Widdop is quality and so was always going to be selected while I am guessing Bennett sees Williams and Trueman as the future. That leaves Tomkins and Lomax vying for the 'utility' spot and Lomax got the nod You reckon? I’m not sure Bennett really rates Williams. Whenever he’s picked him for England in 13s or 9s, he’s dropped him thereafter. He’s been in and around the squad a while and has never been given the backing to make it his own. Trueman is there for experience and rightly so. It will be good for him. I’m slightly reticent about Widdop. I’m not sure he’s showed much form since coming back from injury either in NRL or 9’s. He could get displaced for Austin or Lomax if he doesn’t perform Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, DoubleD said: You reckon? I’m not sure Bennett really rates Williams. Whenever he’s picked him for England in 13s or 9s, he’s dropped him thereafter. He’s been in and around the squad a while and has never been given the backing to make it his own. Trueman is there for experience and rightly so. It will be good for him. I’m slightly reticent about Widdop. I’m not sure he’s showed much form since coming back from injury either in NRL or 9’s. He could get displaced for Austin or Lomax if he doesn’t perform Well, at least he actually picks Williams! Which is more than he does with Percival who is surely a massively better option at centre than Hardaker. As for Widdop. The Dragons season was pretty much over when he came back from injury and while he did ok at the 9's the kicking game he has is going to be critical for us in the coming test matches. With Widdop and Hastings in the halves, I am hoping we can exert the same kind of pressure that the Aussies pile on us with top quality half backs bossing the team. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Rupert Prince said: Hello Mr RP, Like you I support the UK of GB. In sporting terms according go the BBC article about this RL tour, the name "British Lions" used by the RL predates the RFU equivalent. The RFU uses the name British Isles ie, including all of Ireland (its always been that in RU terms historically) and not GB or UK of GB. "Our" GB only included Northern Ireland (because ireland was partitioned inbetween the Wars) and was first used in 1947. But as we are saying the real name, as e.g. in the Eurovision Contest, is UK. So the Olympic team uses a wrong misnomer... and we ourselves did in the past by only included NI. Our error I believe is in trying to ape the RFU in including all Ireland but still calling the name GB. As I say at the above outset, I am happy with the GB name, misnomer and all, but it should not include the Republic. But it's all a mess because as an example, the "English" one day cricket team is captained by a Dubliner. yes and, of course, the England Cricket team is also the representative side for Wales. The history of it, and of other sports is one thing.. historically many things have happened for good and bad but this is a deliberate relaunch and they could have "fixed" the issue.. in the end the only bit that grates me and my son is the lip service at the beginning about being a rep team for Ireland too. If they had left that well alone (knowing it was a political hot potato) then I wouldnt have an issue with it.. fly the flag, use the anthem etc there was never going to be an irishman picked anyway they could have kicked the can down the road knowing that ireland would be playing qualifiers anyway IIRC. But they made it a dogs breakfast.. They are my rep team as and Englishman and a Brit (I have issues around how they use the team etc too but I;ve had them going back to the late 90s as well and an aside to this).. but its the fact my son is acutely aware and I am sure I will get him around it (basically just telling him that they have changed it to not be anything to do with Ireland and they are playing separately) but i shouldnt have to do that.. its typical of the sport though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: My argument is that you'll never get a GBRL that represents the 'Great British Isles' until the concept is there for people to aspire to play in. Without it, the vast majority of the best players will just make themselves available for England. FWIW, from my perspective the way they've brought back the Lions this year is ill-considered and a bit of a shambles. I'll still be watching though! I dont mind GB being the pinnacle for Welsh, Scots and English if that is where we want to go.. what I do have an issue with then is giving the GB team an England shirt to play in the world cup, for me it should be GB or not GB, I understand the arguments for GB (ie giving the odd good welshman/scot a chance to play top level internationals) but then that should be the way we play the world cup IMHO. (mid season England (non NRL) v Wales as a "state of origin"). But its the flip flopping of the same side (bar one or two) in a different shirt that makes it a bit of a mockery... pick one and stick to it for everything.. we are not RU we cannot have this "British Lions concept" but we can have a good GB side that represents the country in an iconic shirt... but lets not then flip to England for World Cups and then back to GB inbetween as it is the same side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost crayfish Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: On ability or the Australian link? I'm more comfortable with the latter, because he's been playing for Scotland for the last few years. A combination. I think Coote is a decent player, nearing the end of his career. Tomkins is also nearing the end, but IMO he is a better player, or at least about on par, and is also a genuine born and raised Brit who has given long service to England. So on the overall balance, I think he deserved selection more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Couple of decent sponsors announced this week in boohoo MAN and randstad The sponsorship portfolio on the GB kit is building up quite nicely. It'd be great if we could sign these up longer term instead of these quick and cheap one-series deals: Hummel, Dacia, Randstad, bohoo MAN with the BBC as broadcasting partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 5 hours ago, ghost crayfish said: A combination. I think Coote is a decent player, nearing the end of his career. Tomkins is also nearing the end, but IMO he is a better player, or at least about on par, and is also a genuine born and raised Brit who has given long service to England. So on the overall balance, I think he deserved selection more. Yeah I was disappointed not to see Tomkins in there, even more so after he was arguably England's best player in the 9s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 7 hours ago, RP London said: But its the flip flopping of the same side (bar one or two) in a different shirt that makes it a bit of a mockery... pick one and stick to it for everything.. we are not RU we cannot have this "British Lions concept" but we can have a good GB side that represents the country in an iconic shirt... but lets not then flip to England for World Cups and then back to GB inbetween as it is the same side I disagree. I think to get players to make themselves available to play for the other home nations, there has to be a sufficiently attractive carrot. One of these is evidently a World Cup, as the likes of Ireland and Scotland become infinitely stronger as some relatively high profile players will put their hands up to play in these tournaments. Another potential carrot could be selection for GB. What I would like to see is an annual European Championships scheduled mid season (with a full England side in there). If this was scheduled in the summer prior to an Autumn World Cup, then hopefully players would want to put themselves in the frame for selection for that. Likewise, if it was scheduled before an Autumn GB series, then hopefully that would also encourage players to want to play in the Euro comp to put themselves in the shop window. At present, Wales, Scotland and Ireland don't play anywhere near enough high profile fixtures to entice players to make themselves available. I know the argument is that England would thrash them, but I'm not sure it would be as one-sided as people think (see Eng v Ireland in 2013 WC, and v Scotland in the 4 Nations). And even if it was, that really isn't the problem that most people make out, as it would just mean that the general public armchair fans who know little about RL would enjoy watching successful national side. Unfortunately, as long as the short-sighted SL clubs are cramming the season with too many fixtures, then there won't ever be a window for this sort of tournament. This is a real shame, as the international game is the best tool the game has to introduce more spectators to the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonM Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Lovely piece with Phil Ford on the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-league/44905694 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: I disagree. I think to get players to make themselves available to play for the other home nations, there has to be a sufficiently attractive carrot. One of these is evidently a World Cup, as the likes of Ireland and Scotland become infinitely stronger as some relatively high profile players will put their hands up to play in these tournaments. Another potential carrot could be selection for GB. What I would like to see is an annual European Championships scheduled mid season (with a full England side in there). If this was scheduled in the summer prior to an Autumn World Cup, then hopefully players would want to put themselves in the frame for selection for that. Likewise, if it was scheduled before an Autumn GB series, then hopefully that would also encourage players to want to play in the Euro comp to put themselves in the shop window. At present, Wales, Scotland and Ireland don't play anywhere near enough high profile fixtures to entice players to make themselves available. I know the argument is that England would thrash them, but I'm not sure it would be as one-sided as people think (see Eng v Ireland in 2013 WC, and v Scotland in the 4 Nations). And even if it was, that really isn't the problem that most people make out, as it would just mean that the general public armchair fans who know little about RL would enjoy watching successful national side. Unfortunately, as long as the short-sighted SL clubs are cramming the season with too many fixtures, then there won't ever be a window for this sort of tournament. This is a real shame, as the international game is the best tool the game has to introduce more spectators to the sport. I agree to an extent... i'm happy to go with the home nations, I would love more international rugby and personally would scrap the loop fixtures for it, but then we shouldn't be looking to do GB just for the sake of a shirt, which is all it is at the moment, England should be making this tour not GB as it really is England just with some blue in the shirt (and coote who we have perfectly good english "replacements" for).. when we genuinely can have a mix of nationalities then fine, but we cant. There are no big names not putting their hands up, there is no one missing out on internationals etc.. seriously (because I really cant think of any) who isn't making themselves available who should be and would if they played bigger games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 stone giant Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, JonM said: Lovely piece with Phil Ford on the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-league/44905694 Shame that he didn't get a cap for Wales RU to go along with his other achievements. He seems like a very likeable guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said: Shame that he didn't get a cap for Wales RU to go along with his other achievements. He seems like a very likeable guy. Perhaps he didn’t want to lower himself to that level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris22 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 21 hours ago, hutch said: Plus Scotland’s Lachlan Coote!!! This is a good point. Scotland are playing Serbia on Saturday in a World Cup qualifier, without one of their best players because he is on the GB tour. It seems very unfair on Scotland that they are weakened by the presence of Great Britain and the governing body promotes and encourages weakening one of the home nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.