Blind side johnny Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 37 minutes ago, silverback said: dont be too sure robin fella, talking to a lad who helps out at owlerton today and its getting a 6 million quid makeover starting in sept..maybe a move backs on the cards. new portacabins... and a bar they let away fans in..lol. Wow! Who's going to pay for that? Dogs & Speedway don't generate sufficient income for that I would have thought and the council must be skint, just like all the rest round here. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said: Wow! Who's going to pay for that? Dogs & Speedway don't generate sufficient income for that I would have thought and the council must be skint, just like all the rest round here. It's had plenty spent on it over the years so maybe they do. They have 3 evenings of dog racing (and apparently fill the 300 seat restaurant for each meeting) plus 2 afternoon meetings a week as well speedway and stock car racing. Actually finding the time to fit in a RL club might be the biggest problem, along with the Eagles possibly having committed long term to the OLP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: It's had plenty spent on it over the years so maybe they do. They have 3 evenings of dog racing (and apparently fill the 300 seat restaurant for each meeting) plus 2 afternoon meetings a week as well speedway and stock car racing. Actually finding the time to fit in a RL club might be the biggest problem, along with the Eagles possibly having committed long term to the OLP? spot on, talk of opening the back straight terrace again after 20 years,with a roof on too, been going 35 years for stock cars and they seem happy with job and to be fair gets some great crowds, i remember odsal with over 20 thousand on a saturday nights in 70s and 80s daily mirror meetings, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said: Wow! Who's going to pay for that? Dogs & Speedway don't generate sufficient income for that I would have thought and the council must be skint, just like all the rest round here. dont want to derail this thred bsj, but its the owners who are spending the £££, not that long since had spent plenty on the raceview restaurant carvery upstairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolie Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Blind side johnny said: You appear to have quietly disposed of Sheffield - is there something that you know but the rest of us don't? Yes Sheffield have been omitted for one simple reason It's set in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Robin Evans said: I think the media would love it. A championsip club can still get promoted to the EPL by finishing 6th.... the media love play offs drama..... Union, NRL, NFL, NHL, NBA, all have it and their playoffs are fully embraced by fans and the media.... We'll both be long dead before the Premier league decide who are the Champions via a play off system but guess they don't need a ridiculous system to generate funds...The club finishing bottom this year will receive 97 million pounds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 5 hours ago, coolie said: 10 teams in super league 1 Leeds Wigan Saints Warrington Castleford Hull Wakefield Salford Widnes Hull kr Super league 2 Huddersfield Catalans Toulouse London Leigh Toronto Featherstone Bradford Halifax Spare place for a franchise (new York) Championship Dewsbury Batley Swinton Rochdale Oldham Hunslet Barrow Workington Whitehaven York Doncaster Keighley Newcastle London S North wales Hemel Coventry West wales Challenge Cup will be a open draw No protection for super league team Some kind of cup game for championship clubs where the final is a curtain raiser to either the grand final at old Trafford or wembley It's fine having the same old super league clubs getting a big day out This way championship clubs get their chance at a grand day out.. Gromit More tea vicar No disrespect intended to either Halifax or Featherstone, but how would either of them hope to compete with the rest of the division listed above? Neither have the infrastructure or support to go full time, unlike the rest of the proposed division. As impressive as Featherstone 's squad is in the championship, not many, if any are good enough to compete at a higher level. I might be wrong, but I don't think any of the SL teams in the middle 8s will be worried by them, do you? Especially given there reliance on the DR and loan systems, which often tend to dry up during the play-offs. Halifax's gates are not what they used to be and they seem quite reliant upon DR and loaning players to be competitive in the championship, never mind against full time opposition every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silcoates Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Well the lads put up a great show on sun.They must have been totally shattered ,as usual after all that tackling. The club made a great effort to get more people in,but the att. was pathetic.But totally in my view, predictable The club makes a loss at every home game and they must have made a bigger loss after that one. They must have sold more programmes though because i didn't get one. The champ.clubs are like turkeys voting for xmas with some of the decision making. We are heading for total amateurism at our level and that will probably be the end of clubs like Dewsbury. When the club goes to Canada are all the expenses paid by them?As has been stated a change in the status quo is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 1 hour ago, silcoates said: Well the lads put up a great show on sun.They must have been totally shattered ,as usual after all that tackling. The club made a great effort to get more people in,but the att. was pathetic.But totally in my view, predictable The club makes a loss at every home game and they must have made a bigger loss after that one. They must have sold more programmes though because i didn't get one. The champ.clubs are like turkeys voting for xmas with some of the decision making. We are heading for total amateurism at our level and that will probably be the end of clubs like Dewsbury. When the club goes to Canada are all the expenses paid by them?As has been stated a change in the status quo is a must. I don't understand this What decision making do you refer to? Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 18 hours ago, DOGFATHER said: No disrespect intended to either Halifax or Featherstone, but how would either of them hope to compete with the rest of the division listed above? Neither have the infrastructure or support to go full time, unlike the rest of the proposed division. As impressive as Featherstone 's squad is in the championship, not many, if any are good enough to compete at a higher level. I might be wrong, but I don't think any of the SL teams in the middle 8s will be worried by them, do you? Especially given there reliance on the DR and loan systems, which often tend to dry up during the play-offs. Halifax's gates are not what they used to be and they seem quite reliant upon DR and loaning players to be competitive in the championship, never mind against full time opposition every week. Despite being PT they both seem to be doing ok against the 4 clubs in that list at the same level as them at the moment. In fact of all the current non SL clubs in that '2nd' Division Fev probably have the biggest non-rugby income stream not reliant on a sugar-daddy (and won't be that far off the biggest from rugby, ignoring central funding and parachute pauments, as they own their ground). They are also looking to increase income from outside rugby through using their asset of 18 acres or so of land (the big announcement due tomorrow evening may be connected to this but given the history of big announcements by clubs I'm not holding my breath). Take away the £1.8m or so that SL clubs currently get and how many of them would be able to compete with the very few who are self-sustaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: Despite being PT they both seem to be doing ok against the 4 clubs in that list at the same level as them at the moment. In fact of all the current non SL clubs in that '2nd' Division Fev probably have the biggest non-rugby income stream not reliant on a sugar-daddy (and won't be that far off the biggest from rugby, ignoring central funding and parachute pauments, as they own their ground). They are also looking to increase income from outside rugby through using their asset of 18 acres or so of land (the big announcement due tomorrow evening may be connected to this but given the history of big announcements by clubs I'm not holding my breath). Take away the £1.8m or so that SL clubs currently get and how many of them would be able to compete with the very few who are self-sustaining? Fair comments LTS but the original proposal was that SL1 and SL2 would be full-time without the option of operating as a PT setup. Under those circumstances would Fev still be self-sustaining? Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said: Fair comments LTS but the original proposal was that SL1 and SL2 would be full-time without the option of operating as a PT setup. Under those circumstances would Fev still be self-sustaining? Why not as FT if they can do it as PT? if they're given a big chunk of 'central funding' finance differentials wouldn't be too much different to now - in fact they might be beneficial to such as Fev and 'Fax. Let's be honest if Dewsbury were given £1.8m a year they'd be as competitive as many of the current SL clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piggy's mate Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 I don't think the money would spread far enough to give every team 1.8M Touch Rugby W(h)inger and part-time Super Hero (Thursday mornings by appointment) BATLEY BULLDOGS RLFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, Piggy's mate said: I don't think the money would spread far enough to give every team 1.8M What does it matter how much it is if every club in 'SL2' is given the same? Fev and Fax would be likely be just as competitive as the other 8. Fwiw I think it's a mad idea and money should be distributed much more fairly and evenly. I'm waiting for the day that the NA league comes to fruition and the current SL 'giants' discover just how important they really are......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: Why not as FT if they can do it as PT? if they're given a big chunk of 'central funding' finance differentials wouldn't be too much different to now - in fact they might be beneficial to such as Fev and 'Fax. Let's be honest if Dewsbury were given £1.8m a year they'd be as competitive as many of the current SL clubs. I agree with many of your points. LTS, but as PM states below None of the teams in SL2 would get anything like £1.8M a year, especially if you believe the reports, about Lenagan and some of his compatriots plans' for the funding side of the game. You'd be lucky to see enough to sustain the squad you already have. The pool of players available is not going to miraculously change overnight either. The likely outcome would be, paying the same group of players, more money for doing the same job. Without the money to compete with the NRL clubs, where are the better players going to come from to allow you to compete? I can't think of very many top NRL stars in SL (with the exception of Barba, who is only here due to his misdemeanors and will return home once the dust settles) so I cannot see how the SL2 clubs would be able to entice any of them or even the top rugby Union talent, on less money. Your last point is the one that really gauls me with this closed shop, elitist mentality of SL. With the exception of the top 4 or 5 teams, the SL clubs are no better than the clubs in the Championship. The biggest difference, is the money handed to them from central funding. Huddersfield, Catalans and Widnes didn't even earn the right to be in SL by winning games. Salford are £6M in debt according to press reports, Wakefield's ground is not fit for CH1, never mind SL and Castleford's isn't much better. 3 hours ago, Piggy's mate said: I don't think the money would spread far enough to give every team 1.8M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silcoates Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 19 hours ago, Blind side johnny said: I don't understand this What decision making do you refer to? Are you going to the big bash-there will be plenty of seats for you to choose from. Playing the likes of Toronto ,Toulouse. The likes of York and the cumbrian clubs in div 1-in league with bradford playing a pub team coventry with scores of 80 and 60. The state of sl and rl today-that decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 hour ago, silcoates said: Are you going to the big bash-there will be plenty of seats for you to choose from. Playing the likes of Toronto ,Toulouse. The likes of York and the cumbrian clubs in div 1-in league with bradford playing a pub team coventry with scores of 80 and 60. The state of sl and rl today-that decision making. You specifically referred to the decision making of the Championship clubs, now you appear to waver, or were you just mistaken? The Championship clubs didn't make these decisions, but I'm sure that you know this. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPH Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Blind side johnny said: You specifically referred to the decision making of the Championship clubs, now you appear to waver, or were you just mistaken? The Championship clubs didn't make these decisions, but I'm sure that you know this. The champ.clubs are like turkeys voting for xmas with some of the decision making. I read it as ...he was trying to write... The champ.clubs are like turkeys waiting for xmas with some of the decision making of the rfl/super league... "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine" ....Abraham Lincoln 1809-1865.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 On 18/04/2018 at 11:41 PM, DOGFATHER said: I agree with many of your points. LTS, but as PM states below None of the teams in SL2 would get anything like £1.8M a year, especially if you believe the reports, about Lenagan and some of his compatriots plans' for the funding side of the game. You'd be lucky to see enough to sustain the squad you already have. The pool of players available is not going to miraculously change overnight either. The likely outcome would be, paying the same group of players, more money for doing the same job. Without the money to compete with the NRL clubs, where are the better players going to come from to allow you to compete? I can't think of very many top NRL stars in SL (with the exception of Barba, who is only here due to his misdemeanors and will return home once the dust settles) so I cannot see how the SL2 clubs would be able to entice any of them or even the top rugby Union talent, on less money. Your last point is the one that really gauls me with this closed shop, elitist mentality of SL. With the exception of the top 4 or 5 teams, the SL clubs are no better than the clubs in the Championship. The biggest difference, is the money handed to them from central funding. Huddersfield, Catalans and Widnes didn't even earn the right to be in SL by winning games. Salford are £6M in debt according to press reports, Wakefield's ground is not fit for CH1, never mind SL and Castleford's isn't much better. It doesn't really matter whether they are getting £1.8m or £0 a year they will be in the same boat. If the players currently at those 10 clubs want to continue to play rugby they will very likely have to take a (potentially large) pay cut; so Fev could still afford the same squad but it would cost them much less. If a SL2 does come about but there is no significant funding behind it, all that will happen is the salaries of SL1 players will rise (almost certainly with little or no any rise in standards) and those of players at the clubs below will fall. Now, whether 20 FT clubs, and sod the rest, is the way to go........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 6 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: It doesn't really matter whether they are getting £1.8m or £0 a year they will be in the same boat. If the players currently at those 10 clubs want to continue to play rugby they will very likely have to take a (potentially large) pay cut; so Fev could still afford the same squad but it would cost them much less. If a SL2 does come about but there is no significant funding behind it, all that will happen is the salaries of SL1 players will rise (almost certainly with little or no any rise in standards) and those of players at the clubs below will fall. Now, whether 20 FT clubs, and sod the rest, is the way to go........ I agree they would be all in the same boat, but even after Featherstones continuous success, you still aren't pulling half of the attendances of the others in the division, which is what will be funding the playing squad if the central funding is reduced. A lot of players do not want full time either, due to having decent jobs or businesses of there own. How much would it cost you to get a part time player earning say £20k a year plus win bonuses etc, who has a full time job earning £40-50k a year, to go full time? I know of a couple of lads at Batley for example, with very good jobs who would not turn full time without a massive amount of money. It would take far more than just the £60-70k they are currently earning by playing and working, to compensate them for having to be out of a working environment for 3+ years, where their skills and experience would become less relevant, whilst also risking injury which could potentially put an end to there playing career and therefore earnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesb0551 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 The real controversial point is would the sport be better with fewer teams. ie only Leigh, Toronto, London, Toulouse and Bradford put into SL and the rest of the sides shut/ become amateur. every SL side to run a reserve grade side. Then hopefully increasing the SL teams attendance ie fans going to a local SL team. More money to be put into grass roots better facilities and coaching (the money previously gone to championship and C1) Championship attendances are poor at best and declining sadly it can't go on forever. Then slowly expanding into maybe New York, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dublin, Birmingham Etc etc the sad reality is we need more teams in big cities if the sport is truly to grow www.dewsburyramstv.co.uk - free highlights service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPH Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 7 hours ago, jamesb0551 said: Then slowly expanding into maybe New York, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dublin, Birmingham Etc etc the sad reality is we need more teams in big cities if the sport is truly to grow or even London, Sheffield and Cardiff ?. "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine" ....Abraham Lincoln 1809-1865.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 better still, blackpool.york.newcastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 On 19/04/2018 at 5:53 PM, RPH said: The champ.clubs are like turkeys voting for xmas with some of the decision making. I read it as ...he was trying to write... The champ.clubs are like turkeys waiting for xmas with some of the decision making of the rfl/super league... Your reading is exceptional RPH. Whenever I see "voting" then should I infer "waiting"? Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Survival Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 The OP expressed a genuine emotion about the playing prospects of his club and I assess reopened the great debate that consumed many threads last year - a meaningful competitive revised structure for the entire RL top to bottom. As BSJ has pointed out nothing likely will come of any restructuring ideas good or bad due to how matters are controlled, and the fact the sole source of substantial income is a tv contract. Several forum members have contended that everything about RL depends on Sky. Well IMHO that is a position of substantial weakness for RL overall. If RL is to have any real future I and most of my NA peers would argue that the income sources have to become more diverse - the clubs really have to substantially up their local attendance, sell a lot more merchandise, sell a lot more top quality advertising, and those at the top of the heap need to be more forward thinking in their determinations of how they spread the income about if interested in a progressive league future. Otherwise OP I believe you will be eternally frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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