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Moscow01

1800 at Widnes last night

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58 minutes ago, MADREDNIGE said:

Fans aren't as interested now a days because it's the same teams getting to Wembley every year from about 6 teams, its boring and too predictable. 

Err isn’t super League like that


sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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2 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Err isn’t super League like that

We were talking about the challenge Cup 

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2 hours ago, meast said:

Huddersfield get judged on how many empty seats there are, not on actual attendances, so because of the fact we generally have 18,000 empty spaces, we have no fans and should be kicked out of SL.

If anyone posts a sub 5,000 crowd then there's usually a justifiable reason why, unless it's Huddersfield then there is no valid reasons

The irony of "Wake-bury" fans singing "your support is f****** s*** is hilarious!

This attitude is endemic in the sport. Look at one of Blake Solly's objectives for last season - X number of "sell-outs", as if a "sell-out" is a meaningful measure of success. 5,000 in a 5,000 seater stadium is success. 20,000 in a 30,000 stadium is not apparently.

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1 hour ago, MADREDNIGE said:

Fans aren't as interested now a days because it's the same teams getting to Wembley every year from about 6 teams, its boring and too predictable. 

Nope. As mentioned above this applies even more so to Superleague.

The reason for the decline of the Challenge Cup is the same as the reason for everything else that happens - money.

The vast majority of the money clubs make is through Superleague and the Sky deal. Anything that distracts from the task of surviving in Superleague, or getting promoted to Superleague, is too big a financial risk to take seriously. This is the logical attitude that clubs take and it is filtered down to the fans.

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1 minute ago, damp squib said:

Nope. As mentioned above this applies even more so to Superleague.

The reason for the decline of the Challenge Cup is the same as the reason for everything else that happens - money.

The vast majority of the money clubs make is through Superleague and the Sky deal. Anything that distracts from the task of surviving in Superleague, or getting promoted to Superleague, is too big a financial risk to take seriously. This is the logical attitude that clubs take and it is filtered down to the fans.

Im sure there is an element of that, but im not sure it is the whole story.

Fact is there is a lot of prize money available in the challenge cup, getting to wembley can make a huge difference to clubs finances. I think there are a lot of problems with the structure of the competitions itself, when it is played, how it fits in to the wider season, and there are some inbuilt negatives to a straight knock-out comp.

For me a big problem the cup sees is the switching focuses. For a lot of sides they are out before the comp really gets going, but even for the ones who have a cup run, its one game, then a month of nothing, then a game, then a month of nothing, then a game, then a month etc. The comp itself gets no momentum, its hard to really get in to it because its forgotten about for league business before suddenly appearing again. The big clubs enter the week before the Magic Weekend, the semi's are at the end of the 23 rounds just as the 8s start, the final a couple of weeks before the end of the season. It all gets a bit lost.

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3 hours ago, Padge said:

Nobody has told us what happened at 6 O'Clock in Widnes last night yet, come on tell us, don't keep us in suspence.

That’s when I arrived in town if it helps? ?

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5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

That’s when I arrived in town if it helps? ?

That's it, does it warrant its own thread.

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This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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5 hours ago, MADREDNIGE said:

Fair comment but it doesn't alter the fact fans are tired of it, could be two games at Wembley give Championship teams a chance and plenty more would attend then, just an idea. 

Which did happen in 1997, but I believe only lasted for 1 year

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby-league-hunslet-transfixed-as-gene-weaves-his-rovers-magic-1259835.html

 

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11 hours ago, langpark said:

Forgive me for posting something positive about last night, but.....

 

image.thumb.png.9ac9b1b48417c3f39e4be98b1731927e.png

4000 fans for two teams less than ten miles apart. 

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1 hour ago, John Fisher said:

4000 fans for two teams less than ten miles apart. 

Seriously 10 miles apart? Surely they should merge :tongue:. They do both wear red, how hard could it be?

Edited by ojx

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Is there any other sport in the world were "fans" are so fixated on crowd numbers and specifically attendance of OTHER clubs?

While it may be a general concern for the sport as a whole, specific club ticket sales are only an issue to that club.

Constantly we have "end is nigh" threads on here which is often fans of one poorly supported club, trying to point out that another club is even worse supported than them.

Why? What does that achieve?

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The challenge cup needs a total revamp and perhaps one way to do it would be to have all the Super League clubs drawn away when they enter the cup, now obviously that would need a serious rejig but its obvious the format need to be changed to create a bit more interest

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6 hours ago, ojx said:

Seriously 10 miles apart? Surely they should merge :tongue:. They do both wear red, how hard could it be?

And Leigh is also 11.2 miles from St Helens and 7.8 miles from Wigan and they also play in Red and White, so that is 4 teams that can be rolled into one, what a brilliant idea, create more space and players available for new teams in the North American take over of the sport.

Problem as I see it

Interest in those places now defunct withers, the game in the schools dies, the community game suffers, some academies are no more - I know these functions are hard for you to imagine as they don't apply over there but believe me they are really important issues as it would have an effect on the sport in general, especially in places that are reliant on others producing player's.?

Edited by Harry Stottle

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20 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

We need to spend money, we need to invest, we need to be imaginative we need to be open and innovative. We need to adapt. Right now, sadly, i agree that is rarely happening, and we are simply managing the decline.

The CC needs to be event-based. It needs to be something different, not much of the same.

I've suggested this a few times, but I think the Magic Weekend format would work really well for the cup. The combined attendance of this round is probably going to be around the 30,000 mark for 8 games, and it will probably be similar for the quarters and semis too.

Somewhere like Coventry for this round (split over 2 days) and even two double header at Blackpool for the quarters would certainly drum up some interest. You wouldn't need to wait for the cup draw to order the next round's tickets, and you did even do the draw at the end of the weekend.


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3 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

The CC needs to be event-based. It needs to be something different, not much of the same.

I've suggested this a few times, but I think the Magic Weekend format would work really well for the cup. The combined attendance of this round is probably going to be around the 30,000 mark for 8 games, and it will probably be similar for the quarters and semis too.

Somewhere like Coventry for this round (split over 2 days) and even two double header at Blackpool for the quarters would certainly drum up some interest. You wouldn't need to wait for the cup draw to order the next round's tickets, and you did even do the draw at the end of the weekend.

I think the problem is that, for instance, this weekend is the weekend before the Magic Weekend. So we couldnt really do the magic weekend format there.

Also this round has 8 games which is probably too many, especially when a few of them arent the most attractive fixtures.

The quarters have 4 which is probably fine for doing two double headers, the problem there becomes the tv rights being split between Sky and the BBC.

Start with a group stage, say 8 groups of 5 starting on boxing day, everyone plays 4 games, taking advantage of the bank holidays, have a game televised every day between boxing day and the 2nd Jan. Schedule games every weekend (so teams arent playing every week) 2 qualify from each group, semi-finals end of Feb final beginning of May (May Bank Holiday).

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6 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I think the problem is that, for instance, this weekend is the weekend before the Magic Weekend. So we couldnt really do the magic weekend format there.

I'd replace the Magic Weekend with this. It's an extra fixture that's not needed, but it's a good concept and would work well for a CC knockout format.

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Also this round has 8 games which is probably too many, especially when a few of them arent the most attractive fixtures.

We've had 4 games in one day on Magic Weekends before. Wouldn't really be an issue. People don't have to watch all games, that's the point. Just watch a few.

 

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The quarters have 4 which is probably fine for doing two double headers, the problem there becomes the tv rights being split between Sky and the BBC.

That's the crux of it. You could have one having it one day and one the other, bit it depends what gets agreed. It would need to be proposed before a TV rights deal as part of it. It could be more attractive to BBC as set up costs would be less, perhaps increasing coverage on FTA TV.

 

11 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Start with a group stage, say 8 groups of 5 starting on boxing day, everyone plays 4 games, taking advantage of the bank holidays, have a game televised every day between boxing day and the 2nd Jan. Schedule games every weekend (so teams arent playing every week) 2 qualify from each group, semi-finals end of Feb final beginning of May (May Bank Holiday).

Not sure increasing fixtures and the length of the season would favour many (wouldn't bother me like!). It wouldn't get many votes for that reason alone.

 


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4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

And Leigh is also 11.2 miles from St Helens and 7.8 miles from Wigan and they also play in Red and White, so that is 4 teams that can be rolled into one, what a brilliant idea, create more space and players available for new teams in the North American take over of the sport.

Problem as I see it

Interest in those places now defunct withers, the game in the schools dies, the community game suffers, some academies are no more - I know these functions are hard for you to imagine as they don't apply over there but believe me they are really important issues as it would have an effect on the sport in general, especially in places that are reliant on others producing player's.?

Sorry Harry, I wasn't being serious. What can be done to get the community and school games back to a healthy state? Does it have anything to do with the perception of the sport? Or is it a more general societal problem with a drop of participation by kids in all sports?

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4 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

1.I'd replace the Magic Weekend with this. It's an extra fixture that's not needed, but it's a good concept and would work well for a CC knockout format.

2.We've had 4 games in one day on Magic Weekends before. Wouldn't really be an issue. People don't have to watch all games, that's the point. Just watch a few.

 

3.That's the crux of it. You could have one having it one day and one the other, bit it depends what gets agreed. It would need to be proposed before a TV rights deal as part of it. It could be more attractive to BBC as set up costs would be less, perhaps increasing coverage on FTA TV.

 

4.Not sure increasing fixtures and the length of the season would favour many (wouldn't bother me like!). It wouldn't get many votes for that reason alone.

 

1. The fundamental part of the magic weekend was that it was every league game played in one place and at one time. All live on Sky (who love it). Exchanging it for a cup game is a big change. I don't think it would replace the magic weekend it would just be an inferior version of it.

2.Yeah but then whats the point? If only 1800 will go watch widnes v leeds in widnes, how many are going to bother going all the way to coventry to watch it because they also get Les Catalans v Workings, Salford v Leigh and Wakefield Huddersfield as well? especially if they arent going to bother watching them.

3. BBC arent going to screen 8 matches over two days so we lose that aspect of the magic weekend. So then im a bit lost as to why we are playing games in front of next to nobody in Coventry and not on TV. If we could get the BBC to screen more by staging the games together we would be better offering two double headers as that would (for this round at least) still allow Sky to take a Thursday and Friday game. Though im not sure that in and of itself this would increase attendances all that much

4. It would replace the pre-season games, and shorten the SL season, most games would be against lower league opposition, it would add a maximum of 3 fixtures and only then for the two who got to the final. It also wouldnt be during the SL season.

I think live competitive challenge cup rugby league over the festive period could be a great tradition that people would almost stumble in to.

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For me i think it would help if SL teams entered the competition a bit sooner. I know people may say the games could be one-sided but it brings in a couple of elements: firstly, a real chance for amateur or lower league sides to play a big club, and also if SL teams were drawn against each other earlier on, it may open up spots for teams from other leagues to go on a cup run (more publicity and interest across RL and sport in general). You don't need to bring them in from the first round but i think third round or fourth at the very latest is fine.

For me as a Wigan fan i would say if anything causes a lack of interest it's the lack of variety in terms of the teams we could be drawn against. It's generally SL clubs plus one or two lower league clubs, but the prospect of playing a club i haven't seen play before could peak my interest in any cup draws at least.

And a final point i'd make is to keep the ticket prices realistic and discount where reasonable.

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21 hours ago, Chris22 said:

Indeed.  I was there, and that game was more than just a curtain-raiser. I felt it really enhanced the occasion, and helped get the fans for the CC final geared up in anticipation. It did me, anyway!


The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.

Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two.  Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true.  Then do it again - some things never end.

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On an historic note, in 1985 Widnes were at home to Runcorn (remember them?) at the same stage of the competition and had a gate of 5528 - their previous home game in the league against Leeds only attracted 4657. The average gate in the top division that season was 4738 (the good old days that some people here seem to want to go back to).

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On 5/13/2018 at 12:37 PM, scotchy1 said:

1. The fundamental part of the magic weekend was that it was every league game played in one place and at one time. All live on Sky (who love it). Exchanging it for a cup game is a big change. I don't think it would replace the magic weekend it would just be an inferior version of it.

2.Yeah but then whats the point? If only 1800 will go watch widnes v leeds in widnes, how many are going to bother going all the way to coventry to watch it because they also get Les Catalans v Workings, Salford v Leigh and Wakefield Huddersfield as well? especially if they arent going to bother watching them.

3. BBC arent going to screen 8 matches over two days so we lose that aspect of the magic weekend. So then im a bit lost as to why we are playing games in front of next to nobody in Coventry and not on TV. If we could get the BBC to screen more by staging the games together we would be better offering two double headers as that would (for this round at least) still allow Sky to take a Thursday and Friday game. Though im not sure that in and of itself this would increase attendances all that much

4. It would replace the pre-season games, and shorten the SL season, most games would be against lower league opposition, it would add a maximum of 3 fixtures and only then for the two who got to the final. It also wouldnt be during the SL season.

I think live competitive challenge cup rugby league over the festive period could be a great tradition that people would almost stumble in to.

We maybe need to attract a new audience. ‘’The Rugby League Challenge Cup. Who are you cheering to Wembley this summer?’’ Next year move the QF to the RFLs new pad at City of Manc in July, Semis in Coventry. The fixtures are on the road to Wembley (M6). Publicize it heavily in the BBCs coverage next year (hopefully) of the Denver test. All on the BBC (biggest games on BBC1 rest on red button - cameras already there, just like Sky love Magic). Get RL fans but get some footy fans there as no World Cup. If it’s a success, expand both over two days each weekend. If we can expand more, prior round to replace Magic in Newcastle (16 teams will probably have all SL teams plus 2 champ who are excited to be there). Prior round can be 4 SL teams plus the other non SL teams at Headingley who are playing to get to Newcastle. Have a plan and execute stage by stage. Get Mr Hearn to do it and share the profits. He’s just negotiated a billion pound TV deal in the US. We need him and a decent fraction of that in our sport.

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