Pro RL before Super League

[Southerner80]

With all the talk of TWP and the finances of the game, it occurred to me that pre Sky SL, the game for the previous century was basically Semi Pro in general, Full time teams like the great Wigan of the 80s and 90s were rare.   Can any of the older posters give a accurate picture of the economic state of play, in say 1988 before Sky?

What Im getting at, is that it occurs to me that FT Pro RL is not feasible without Sky or an alternative Big TV company who are willing to under write large pay rolls, compared to the revenue the clubs make on the Gate.

As a side note - it seems they played alot more games back then - probably due to the slower pace and lower intensity this was not as physically damaging as the modern games workload. RL has become a lot more like the NFL in terms of impact than it was 30 years ago!

[Damien]

Just to note Wigan weren't a full time team in the 80s and even some of the 90s. They had many semi professional players in their teams of this era. 

[dixiedean]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Just to note Wigan weren't a full time team in the 80s and even some of the 90s. They had many semi professional players in their teams of this era. 

Indeed. Andy Goodway was the first official full timer when he joined in 85. Although there were sham students, groundsmen and workers for the Chairman's company at many clubs before that.

[henage]

2 hours ago, Southerner80 said:

With all the talk of TWP and the finances of the game, it occurred to me that pre Sky SL, the game for the previous century was basically Semi Pro in general, Full time teams like the great Wigan of the 80s and 90s were rare.   Can any of the older posters give a accurate picture of the economic state of play, in say 1988 before Sky?

What Im getting at, is that it occurs to me that FT Pro RL is not feasible without Sky or an alternative Big TV company who are willing to under write large pay rolls, compared to the revenue the clubs make on the Gate.

As a side note - it seems they played alot more games back then - probably due to the slower pace and lower intensity this was not as physically damaging as the modern games workload. RL has become a lot more like the NFL in terms of impact than it was 30 years ago!

Dont forget most players put in 80 mins worth of effort and toil back in the day .

Today some forwards maybe get 40 mins game time .

 

[dixiedean]

19 minutes ago, henage said:

Dont forget most players put in 80 mins worth of effort and toil back in the day .

Today some forwards maybe get 40 mins game time .

 

Slower pace and less physically intense is inevitable when you have only 2 subs on the bench, and contested scrums too.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

2 minutes ago, dixiedean said:

Indeed slower pace and less physically intense is inevitable when you have only 2 subs on the bench, and contested scrums too.

But you had more skillful players and far more entertaining to watch.

[dixiedean]

42 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

But you had more skillful players and far more entertaining to watch.

Guess that would be a matter of opinion...but one I would tend to share. Was no fan of 30+ contested scrums, but were I the Supreme Ruler of RL, my first act would be to bring back 2 subs. They needed to be kept in reserve in case of injuries.  Opened the field up in the second half. Move the ball wide against a tiring defence, rather than 2 or 3 fresh huge forwards running up the middle against one.

 

[dixiedean]

Having considered this more I wonder how much the move to full-time was driven by economics. There used to be a wide-range of job opportunities for young people in the M62 area in the 70's and earlier. You could earn decent money and top it up playing RL.You could become an apprentice for a trade. You could fund your studies to a profession (with the help of a Grant, too). Or you could get an unskilled job.

So. as well as numerous factory workers, miners, etc. there were Internationals like David Stephenson (solicitor) and Steve Donlan (accountant). There were also many self-employed Tradesmen and small businessmen. John Butler had a hardware and electrical shop on Wigan Lane.

These opportunities largely disappeared in the early 80's recession and Miners' Strike. With few qualificatioms, it was RL or the Dole. You were lucky if you had that choice tbh.

So many of the next generation chose RL as a career, and almost certainly earned much less f-t than some of their predecessors did p-t. 

So some teams gradually went full-time. Wigan (who were winning everything) first. Aided by a freakish amount of local talent, which then drew in every established and nascent star player including from Down Under, and snowballed into a superclub. Leeds followed, then Saints, Hull, Widnes,etc. A substantial number of RU players came over too.

The League became unbalanced as teams scrambled to keep up. Many couldn't.

There were maybe 5 or 6 viable teams full time.

This all pre-dated SKY who came in to establish a full-time 12 team League. Reckon that would have worked with the extra money shared out, if we had just kept it as a pro First Division of 12, (including Fev and others, who couldn't keep up otherwise) and a strong second tier of part-time clubs, without trying to artificially promote and create new teams like PSG, London and Workington.

With promotion and relegation.

Would take a huge mindset change to go back to part-time now.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

15 hours ago, dixiedean said:

Guess that would be a matter of opinion...but one I would tend to share. Was no fan of 30+ contested scrums, but were I the Supreme Ruler of RL, my first act would be to bring back 2 subs. They needed to be kept in reserve in case of injuries.  Opened the field up in the second half. Move the ball wide against a tiring defence, rather than 2 or 3 fresh huge forwards running up the middle against one.

 

Got my vote.  Changes the shape and dynamic of forwards.

Your monster forwards start to weaken against your more regular sized athletic second rows in those kinds of games.

I would scrap scrums all together its a distraction for the neutral and gives players a rest.

We need an element of fatigue to bring in mistakes to open up game play.

 

[Big Picture]

35 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

Got my vote.  Changes the shape and dynamic of forwards.

Your monster forwards start to weaken against your more regular sized athletic second rows in those kinds of games.

I would scrap scrums all together its a distraction for the neutral and gives players a rest.

We need an element of fatigue to bring in mistakes to open up game play.

We've just seen 73 points scored in a match.  How high do you want the scores to go????

What we need instead is a better balance between offense and defense so that scores don't reach such ridiculous levels.

[Southerner80]

37 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

Got my vote.  Changes the shape and dynamic of forwards.

Your monster forwards start to weaken against your more regular sized athletic second rows in those kinds of games.

I would scrap scrums all together its a distraction for the neutral and gives players a rest.

We need an element of fatigue to bring in mistakes to open up game play.

 

I agree scrums can go in RL. 

I feel maybe have no interchange ie off means off no coming back on.... And have 5 subs. So that's 5 potential changes. This is a good mid point between what we have now and only 2 subs. 

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

4 hours ago, Big Picture said:

We've just seen 73 points scored in a match.  How high do you want the scores to go????

What we need instead is a better balance between offense and defense so that scores don't reach such ridiculous levels.

Not sure you even understand the points i am making.