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Sutton off to Canberra


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2 hours ago, Southerner80 said:

Wigan not owning a ground anymore is a big mistake that means financially they are in a bad place to hold onto stars or buy them in much. 

Hopefully this changes as Wigan are the most famous RL club in arguably the world and they deserve better. 

This "owning your own ground" idea was put to bed years ago. Ask yourself this. " why did Wigan leave Central Park?"  Have a look at the history of the move and how the cost of the new stand escalated.  

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10 hours ago, Southerner80 said:

Wigan not owning a ground anymore is a big mistake that means financially they are in a bad place to hold onto stars or buy them in much. 

Hopefully this changes as Wigan are the most famous RL club in arguably the world and they deserve better. 

Are you suggesting that Wigan are not spending the full salary cap? If they are, then even another 20 million in revenue from their own stadium would have zero effect on their ability to keep players.

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I don’t see him anywhere near as much as the Wigan fans but for me when he came through he had loads of potential. For me that’s still where he’s at bags of potential as he hasn’t quite kicked on yet. To be fair to him he’s still young for a prop so hopefully this move can get the best out of him. 

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18 hours ago, absentee thoughtlord said:

He'll only have to park his asre on the Canberra bench and he'll be in the England squad.

Bennett will have already pencilled him in for the Denver game.  

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9 hours ago, EagleEyePie said:

I think Sutton could become quite successful in the NRL. He might not have become a top name over here just yet but that's partly because he's still young for a prop, despite having played quite a large number of games, and because the way Shaun Wane has our props play doesn't exactly help them to become stars. Their workload is less than all other clubs and his instructions are to go to ground quickly and find their front ready for a quick play the ball. Gaining more ground through powerful leg drive or pulling off barnstorming individual runs are frowned upon because it's seen as slowing down the tempo. In that respect, I don't think Sutton suits Wane's style of play, and it seems to hold him back a little. He's a good ball player though and has started to show that a bit more this season. Playing in the NRL should hopefully see him used differently and more effectively.

It's frustrating that Wigan have lost another talented young player, but to be honest we've done well to keep Sutton for as long as we have. He's been wanted by the NRL for years. I think the first interest came when he was about 18 and has been strong ever since. They really rate him. I definitely think he's underrated over here.

Pray tell, with the exception of James Graham how many "ball playing props" are running about in the NRL.

So you consider that is the role Ricky Stuart has for him, do we take that as a back handed compliment in this country, that Aussie coaches think - suchabody is a prop he must be a good ball player, he's English, unlike our robots over here!

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2 hours ago, Jim Prendle said:

Are you suggesting that Wigan are not spending the full salary cap? If they are, then even another 20 million in revenue from their own stadium would have zero effect on their ability to keep players.

There's the marquee allowance and the discount for home grown players so in theory a club could spend the whole cap and bring over James Maloney or Ben Hunt on say 600k....

I don't think Wigan are spending as much as they could on wages. Maybe the full cap but no more. 

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10 hours ago, JohnM said:

This "owning your own ground" idea was put to bed years ago. Ask yourself this. " why did Wigan leave Central Park?"  Have a look at the history of the move and how the cost of the new stand escalated.  

Fair enough there's things I am not aware of re the costs. All I'm saying is compared to saints and wire they are not in a good position in terms of revenue and they should look to change that. 

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59 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Pray tell, with the exception of James Graham how many "ball playing props" are running about in the NRL.

So you consider that is the role Ricky Stuart has for him, do we take that as a back handed compliment in this country, that Aussie coaches think - suchabody is a prop he must be a good ball player, he's English, unlike our robots over here!

To be honest James Graham's creative passing game has all but disappeared now.  Not that he doesn't have the skills but he just isn't playing that game now.

There are some very good off-loading props in the NRL - Andrew Fifita and Martin Taupau spring to mind - but the creative ball handling props are pretty much dead now.  It's a pity as I loved that aspect of Graham's game.

A lot of NRL props can throw a decent pass but this is usually the first receiver pass that frees up space for a shift play but I wouldn't class it as creative or overly skilful.  I am sure that Sutton can do this (and more).

As for Sutton himself.  Shannon Boyd is leaving the Raiders for Gold Coast next year and they are pretty big boots to fill.  I hope he does well.

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51 minutes ago, Southerner80 said:

There's the marquee allowance and the discount for home grown players so in theory a club could spend the whole cap and bring over James Maloney or Ben Hunt on say 600k....

I don't think Wigan are spending as much as they could on wages. Maybe the full cap but no more. 

They have both Tomkins and Williams as marquee players at the moment, so I would suggest that Wigan are very close to spending the amount that they are allowed to under the rules.

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41 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

To be honest James Graham's creative passing game has all but disappeared now.  Not that he doesn't have the skills but he just isn't playing that game now.

There are some very good off-loading props in the NRL - Andrew Fifita and Martin Taupau spring to mind - but the creative ball handling props are pretty much dead now.  It's a pity as I loved that aspect of Graham's game.

A lot of NRL props can throw a decent pass but this is usually the first receiver pass that frees up space for a shift play but I wouldn't class it as creative or overly skilful.  I am sure that Sutton can do this (and more).

As for Sutton himself.  Shannon Boyd is leaving the Raiders for Gold Coast next year and they are pretty big boots to fill.  I hope he does well.

Even as a dragons fan , despite his presence and tremendous attitude , I do think his influence and overall game this year  aren’t what they were . Don’t know if he’s playing wounded , it sometimes looks that way 

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58 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

They have both Tomkins and Williams as marquee players at the moment, so I would suggest that Wigan are very close to spending the amount that they are allowed to under the rules.

And neither of them are putting the consistant performances in that warrent marquee players wages,I've advocated a clear out,unfortunately it's the wrong players who seem to be leaving,the ones you can build a successful team around leaving the likes of Tautai,Sarginson,J.Tomkins,Isa,I won't even mention Hamlin !

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15 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

And neither of them are putting the consistant performances in that warrent marquee players wages,I've advocated a clear out,unfortunately it's the wrong players who seem to be leaving,the ones you can build a successful team around leaving the likes of Tautai,Sarginson,J.Tomkins,Isa,I won't even mention Hamlin !

I wonder if it is more the false logic of top stars leaving and bringing them back regardless of form and fitness? Have players like Joe Burgess, Joel Tomkins, Sam Tomkins, Dan Sarginson, Thomas Leululai, Lee Mossop etc. been sound commercial buys or were some of them appeasement signings when big money could have been spent elsewhere? Not saying they aren't good players but the track record of players returning to clubs isn't that great.

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41 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I wonder if it is more the false logic of top stars leaving and bringing them back regardless of form and fitness? Have players like Joe Burgess, Joel Tomkins, Sam Tomkins, Dan Sarginson, Thomas Leululai, Lee Mossop etc. been sound commercial buys or were some of them appeasement signings when big money could have been spent elsewhere? Not saying they aren't good players but the track record of players returning to clubs isn't that great.

Oh they were good players when they left,they just came back as shells of their former self,Burgess was starting to play well before his injury to be fair but he has stated his desire to give the NRL a crack.As for the others mentioned I don't think a single one has shown the form that warrants the effort and expense that went into bringing them back.

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2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

And neither of them are putting the consistant performances in that warrent marquee players wages,I've advocated a clear out,unfortunately it's the wrong players who seem to be leaving,the ones you can build a successful team around leaving the likes of Tautai,Sarginson,J.Tomkins,Isa,I won't even mention Hamlin !

I think Sam Tomkins has gone pretty well this season, and to lump a guy like Hamlin in with the rest of them is unfair in my opinion. The guy is a young lad who has come from the other side of the world, and has played about 4 games. Give him a chance for God's sake.

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5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Pray tell, with the exception of James Graham how many "ball playing props" are running about in the NRL.

So you consider that is the role Ricky Stuart has for him, do we take that as a back handed compliment in this country, that Aussie coaches think - suchabody is a prop he must be a good ball player, he's English, unlike our robots over here!

Sorry if that was misleading. I meant that he's showing good ball playing ability currently at Wigan, and that it's another positive aspect to his game that he's developed. I wasn't suggesting it would be important for him at Canberra specifically.

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1 hour ago, Jim Prendle said:

I think Sam Tomkins has gone pretty well this season, and to lump a guy like Hamlin in with the rest of them is unfair in my opinion. The guy is a young lad who has come from the other side of the world, and has played about 4 games. Give him a chance for God's sake.

And if he develops into a good player,where do you think he will end up Jim  ?

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3 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

And if he develops into a good player,where do you think he will end up Jim  ?

I don't see what difference that makes at all. He currently plays for Wigan, he has come a long way to do so, and we should give him the chance to prove himself before we dismiss him as hopeless.

It doesn't seem to matter where you come from anyway. Sutton is from Wigan, and he has ended up in the NRL, and I'm certain he won't be the last Wigan born player to do so.

 

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On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 6:58 PM, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

Another Mike Cooper? 

Goes across as an average Super League prop.  Soon returns no better but gets the prized "played in the NRL" .

I thought Cooper went fairly well over here (NRL). Maybe different competitions suit different types of players.

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Lets see Ryan Sutton at Wigan on maybe £70k per year max. Goes to Canberra on say $250k Aussie dollars, doubles his pay and they get a 22 year old prop for a very cheap price. He is young and with the Aussie subs going down to maybe 6 next season all clubs are on the lookout for middles that can play big minutes.

Canberra probably think they have one on cheap deal in comparison to what they would have had to pay Shannon Boyd if they had kept him.

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4 hours ago, Brigg Rover said:

Lets see Ryan Sutton at Wigan on maybe £70k per year max. Goes to Canberra on say $250k Aussie dollars, doubles his pay and they get a 22 year old prop for a very cheap price. He is young and with the Aussie subs going down to maybe 6 next season all clubs are on the lookout for middles that can play big minutes.

Canberra probably think they have one on cheap deal in comparison to what they would have had to pay Shannon Boyd if they had kept him.

Maybe he is cheaper than Boyd but as of now he isn’t anywhere near the player Boyd is. So Canberra are taking a gamble that Sutton will reach his potential pretty quickly. 

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On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 8:29 PM, bobbruce said:

Maybe he is cheaper than Boyd but as of now he isn’t anywhere near the player Boyd is. So Canberra are taking a gamble that Sutton will reach his potential pretty quickly. 

But Boyd is on a contract of £800k a year with the Gold Coast, and according to Billy Moore he will be liability if the subs do go down to 6 per team next year.

Canberra are obviously trying to gear their team to have middles who can play long minutes that are cost effective to be able to spend their big dollars elsewhere in the team. It's as much about salary cap management as it is about getting the best players. 

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5 hours ago, Brigg Rover said:

But Boyd is on a contract of £800k a year with the Gold Coast, and according to Billy Moore he will be liability if the subs do go down to 6 per team next year.

Canberra are obviously trying to gear their team to have middles who can play long minutes that are cost effective to be able to spend their big dollars elsewhere in the team. It's as much about salary cap management as it is about getting the best players. 

That’s a sweeping call , I’m not sure how he’s come to that conclusion . Obviously not shared by the Titans . He’s a prime asset I’d have and can easily condition to play slightly longer minutes I’d reckon . Bit unfair to make these assessments without seeing how players adapt , as they do often by necessity . I know who I’d rather have 

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