Dear Diary

[Damien]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Because we're off to the Flemish bit of Belgium a bit later in the year, I've decided to entertain myself by doing a Babbel course in Dutch. It's quite a fun break for fifteen or so minutes each day, and I'll no doubt forget everything the second I actually need to use the language in action.

This morning, I've just been firing up the 'time' section and now I hate everything and everyone.

Essentially, assuming Babbel aren't lying to me, this is how it works:

On the hour: One o'clock

Between 1.01 and 1.14: the number of minutes past ...

1.15: quarter past

Between 1.16 and 1.29: the number of minutes before the half hour

1.30: half to the next hour

Between 1.31 and 1.44: the number of minutes after the half hour to the next hour

1.45: quarter to the next hour

1.46 to 1.59: minutes to the next hour ...

Gits.

Sounds easier just to buy your own watch

[getdownmonkeyman]

On 04/07/2019 at 13:49, Wiltshire Rhino said:

I've just head-butted a pigeon! 

This needs further explanation.

[Bob8]

On 06/07/2019 at 14:24, Padge said:

Your wasting your time. They would sooner you speak English so they can get on with their day and not spend it deciphering your torcherous attempts. 

True.

Forcing them to listen to poor Dutch would actually be rude.

The two bits of advice I give for travellers to Denmark are don't take cash out and do not ask the natives it they speak English (it would be like asking them if they are literate).

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

True.

Forcing them to listen to poor Dutch would actually be rude.

The two bits of advice I give for travellers to Denmark are don't take cash out and do not ask the natives it they speak English (it would be like asking them if they are literate).

This is not the Netherlands, mate. I'd expect to be lectured in English in the Netherlands such that I would begin to doubt my own ability.

My experience of the Flemish bit of Belgium is that, whilst they might all be absolutely fluent in English, they don't show it as readily and, also, they have a tendency of putting some important bits of information in Flemish only.

Probably to confuse the Walloons.

[Bob8]

12 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

This is not the Netherlands, mate. I'd expect to be lectured in English in the Netherlands such that I would begin to doubt my own ability.

My experience of the Flemish bit of Belgium is that, whilst they might all be absolutely fluent in English, they don't show it as readily and, also, they have a tendency of putting some important bits of information in Flemish only. 

Probably to confuse the Walloons.

True. The Flemmish are worse, but in my experience still annoyingly good. Walloonia is gloriously different!

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Walloonia is gloriously different!

They say seventy, eighty and ninety properly.

[Just Browny]

48 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

They say seventy, eighty and ninety properly.

They say eighty just like their southern cousins.

[gingerjon]

28 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

They say eighty just like their southern cousins.

They have to do something wrong, the fools.

[Shadow]

On 06/07/2019 at 10:51, Bob8 said:

This week I caught up with a man who punched Farage in his youth. I did not listen to the details but words like “knocked out” were involved. 

Last week I found out internet dating isn’t all it’s cracked up to be 

[ckn]

Happy Bastille Day!  Vive la révolution!

(More to annoy the little Englanders than anything else...)

[Exiled Townie]

58 minutes ago, ckn said:

Happy Bastille Day!  Vive la révolution!

(More to annoy the little Englanders than anything else...)

Yay, let's celebrate storming an almost empty prison and freeing four forgers, an Irish "lunatic" who on alternate days thought he was either God or Julius Caesar,  a failed assassin held from 30 years before and one aristocrat, imprisoned for "perverted sexual practices".

How very French. 

[Phil]

6 hours ago, Exiled Townie said:

Yay, let's celebrate storming an almost empty prison and freeing four forgers, an Irish "lunatic" who on alternate days thought he was either God or Julius Caesar,  a failed assassin held from 30 years before and one aristocrat, imprisoned for "perverted sexual practices".

How very French. 

You don’t appreciate symbolism do you? 

[JohnM]

21 hours ago, ckn said:

Happy Bastille Day!  Vive la révolution!

(More to annoy the little Englanders than anything else...)

Yay! You won't annoy them, though as they are happy enough hiding behind the currupt and undemocratic skirts of Brussels, Berlin and Paris.

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

Yay! You won't annoy them, though as they are happy enough hiding behind the currupt and undemocratic skirts of Brussels, Berlin and Paris.

Little know fact, the left used to be associated with this sort of talk forty years ago.

[JonM]

On 06/07/2019 at 07:43, gingerjon said:

Because we're off to the Flemish bit of Belgium a bit later in the year, I've decided to entertain myself by doing a Babbel course in Dutch. It's quite a fun break for fifteen or so minutes each day, and I'll no doubt forget everything the second I actually need to use the language in action.

This morning, I've just been firing up the 'time' section and now I hate everything and everyone.

Essentially, assuming Babbel aren't lying to me, this is how it works:

On the hour: One o'clock

Between 1.01 and 1.14: the number of minutes past ...

1.15: quarter past

Between 1.16 and 1.29: the number of minutes before the half hour

1.30: half to the next hour

Between 1.31 and 1.44: the number of minutes after the half hour to the next hour

1.45: quarter to the next hour

1.46 to 1.59: minutes to the next hour ...

Gits.

Cough. Am I right in remembering that you studied Welsh? A language which has different words for two, three and four (but not any other numbers) depending on gender? A language which has a mix of base-10, base-15 and base-20 counting systems? Where some numbers change the first consonant of the word that follows, in ways which are different for 1, 2, 3, and 6 the same for 5, 7 and 8, but 4, 9 and 10 don't have any effect?

E.g. Un gath ar bymtheg ar hugain (one cat on fifteen on twenty) = thirty six cats

[tonyXIII]

5 minutes ago, JonM said:

Cough. Am I right in remembering that you studied Welsh? A language which has different words for two, three and four (but not any other numbers) depending on gender? A language which has a mix of base-10, base-15 and base-20 counting systems? Where some numbers change the first consonant of the word that follows, in ways which are different for 1, 2, 3, and 6 the same for 5, 7 and 8, but 4, 9 and 10 don't have any effect?

E.g. Un gath ar bymtheg ar hugain (one cat on fifteen on twenty) = thirty six cats

That sounds like a mating frenzy! How many cats do you end up with?

[Shadow]

Just now, tonyXIII said:

That sounds like a mating frenzy! How many cats do you end up with?

None, I was going to st Ives. Not the man with the cats, sacks and wives

[JonM]

Just now, tonyXIII said:

That sounds like a mating frenzy! How many cats do you end up with?

If it's anything like the cats in our garden, they'd all be sat staring silently for hours trying to psych each other out.

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, JonM said:

Cough. Am I right in remembering that you studied Welsh? A language which has different words for two, three and four (but not any other numbers) depending on gender? A language which has a mix of base-10, base-15 and base-20 counting systems? Where some numbers change the first consonant of the word that follows, in ways which are different for 1, 2, 3, and 6 the same for 5, 7 and 8, but 4, 9 and 10 don't have any effect?

E.g. Un gath ar bymtheg ar hugain (one cat on fifteen on twenty) = thirty six cats

You are entirely correct. Modern day spoken Welsh has three ways of doing numbers.

The one you describe. You'll hear some parts of it in odd places but mostly it exists as a pretty relic.

The one they now teach which is very simple. Thirty six is tri deg pump (tree-deg-pimp).

Or the numbers everyone, including native speakers speaking natively to another native speaker, uses: English.

The bit about changing the consonants is yer basic mutations and Welsh has loads. Hence it's Croeso i Gymru on the sign as you enter, not Cymru.

[JonM]

23 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You are entirely correct. Modern day spoken Welsh has three ways of doing numbers.

The one you describe. You'll hear some parts of it in odd places but mostly it exists as a pretty relic.

The one they now teach which is very simple. Thirty six is tri deg pump (tree-deg-pimp).

Or the numbers everyone, including native speakers speaking natively to another native speaker, uses: English.

The bit about changing the consonants is yer basic mutations and Welsh has loads. Hence it's Croeso i Gymru on the sign as you enter, not Cymru.

Duolingo mostly seems to teach the old system in the context of telling time.

And yer basic mutations are mostly different for each different number. Soft mutation for un, but for feminine nouns only, aspirate mutation after tri, nasal mutation for the words for day or year after pum or wyth etc. etc.

Still makes Dutch look consistent and logical

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, JonM said:

Dutch look consistent and logical

This kind of talk, I will never accept.

You could be right about time - I think you are actually but it's 20 years plus since I learnt - and, again, the default for numbers in conversation is either English or a curious mixture of English with the occasional 'ugain' and 'unarddeg' to show willing.

[JonM]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

This kind of talk, I will never accept.

My wife went to university in Amsterdam for a year. The only Dutch she knows is Goede Dag and Sinaasappelsap, which she knows because she thought it was funny that an orange is a sin aas apple.

[Bob8]

15 minutes ago, JonM said:

My wife went to university in Amsterdam for a year. The only Dutch she knows is Goede Dag and Sinaasappelsap, which she knows because she thought it was funny that an orange is a sin aas apple.

i.e. Sino-apple.

Pretty much every European other than English (that I know of) call them Chinese apples.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

i.e. Sino-apple.

Pretty much every European other than English (that I know of) call them Chinese apples.

Hadn't even occurred to me that's what it was.

I should probably have spent less time in German admiring [redacted teacher]'s legs and more time thinking about etymology.

[JonM]

2 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Pretty much every European other than English (that I know of) call them Chinese apples.

Makes sense, as sweet oranges came from China originally.

Naranja in Spanish, Orange in French, Oren in Welsh.

Quick look on Wikipedia  which says that the word orange comes originally from Tamil, reaching Europe via Sanskrit, Persian & Arabic. And languages from different families round the Balkans (Turkish, Greek, Bulgarian, Albanian) call them by words that mean "Portugese" because merchants from there were the ones who brought them.