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League Restructure Discussion (Merged Threads)

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6 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

....and there we have the flaw in that reasoning

Exactly - although not just the fact that teams sometimes can't afford to max out the salary cap, there's also the factor of attracting players - some clubs are simply more attractive than others if both are capable of offering similar wages. No disrespect to Widnes but if they for example could offer a player x amount and Wigan, Leeds or Warrington matched it then a player could arguably be more attracted to them.

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10 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

the Super League clubs do not have the power to change the central funding or competition structure without full agreement of the RFL. 

On paper, maybe not.

In practice, though, ........

Of course, it might be that had negotiations ( or feeble compromise where no one gets what they want)  carried on professionally, behind closed doors, with all parties having their polite say, then absolutely nothing  would have happened for ages and ages and ages, if at all. Or we might have ended up with a camel....a horse designed by a committee.  Now the movers and shakers of the game have broken silence, we'll actually get some progress. 

Edited by JohnM
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Four legs good - two legs bad

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2 minutes ago, JohnM said:

On paper, maybe not.

In practice, though, ........

That I have no doubt about it John.

It's how you escape from the legally binding contract that's the problem when you have over two thirds of the game rejecting the Lenagan/Elstone vision. 

Wake me up when this thread has reached 5000 pages.

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9 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

I believe there's only Bradford needed for the full house John. 

Widnes and Catalans won't release a statement because they agree with Leeds and the Championship/League One clubs.

At least we saw a great game of Rugby League last night between Bradford and Widnes, if a little fiery at times.

 

 

I have a feeling Bradford's position on this subject now will be a whole lot different from Bradford's position when a certain Chris Caisley was chairman and they were riding high in Super League.

I'm off to the tin hat shop. Do they do them in red, amber and black, I wonder...?

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4 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

Wake me up when this thread has reached 5000 pages.

You wont get much sleep at this rate, Mick.?

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2 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

Wake me up when this thread has reached 5000 pages.

In about half an hour...? ;)

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11 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I have a feeling Bradford's position on this subject now will be a whole lot different from Bradford's position when a certain Chris Caisley was chairman and they were riding high in Super League.

I'm off to the tin hat shop. Do they do them in red, amber and black, I wonder...?

I never agreed with Caisley and his stance, John . I've still got the copy of the T&A where he tries to ban Sky Sports being shown within a 10 mile radius of the ground.

I just hope that Brian Barwick and Robert Elstone can form some constructed dialouge at their meetings next week.

 

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42 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

Andrew Chalmers will be releasing his statement tomorrow morning.

Oh ffs...If he says anything anti much beyond what John and I suggested above, IMO he will be doing everyone - including the club and himself - a disservice.  If there was ever time a united and consolidated response was needed, it is now!

Edited by Adeybull

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.

Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two.  Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true.  Then do it again - some things never end.

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5 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

I just hope that Brian Barwick and Robert Elstone can form some constructed dialouge at their meetings next week.

Amen to that.

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6 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

I never agreed with Caisley and his stance, John . I've still got the copy of the T&A where he tries to ban Sky Sports being shown within a 10 mile radius of the ground.

 

 

Remind Bullseye and I again of the following morning, which we spent writing the BISA press release in response to that nonsense! And of Caisley's response to us...

Edited by Adeybull

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.

Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two.  Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true.  Then do it again - some things never end.

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2 hours ago, John Drake said:

It doesn't help though, does it.

Calmer heads are needed.

   I think it helps now that ' the lifeblood of the sport ',the paying customer/sponsor knows that Mr Lenagan,perhaps by his own volition,or with 11 other owners on his side,wanted League 1 to be cast adrift of any finances from the TV deal.

  Am I to presume that Mr Pearson, ( Gateshead/Hull with a little help from Mrs Hetherington, ) when he spoke of competing with rugby union and 'significant changes to the game',was based solely on the Super League clubs taking all the money from the remainder of the TV deal?  Nothing else?

  So many months have been wasted,and it would appear a whole load of mediation will be required before any meaningful issues are concluded.

   Has the firing of the first shot by Mr Lenagan scuppered the chances of landing a decent RFL appointment? Who wants to come into this maelstrom?

   Interviews with Messrs McManus and Hetherington will be interesting.What exactly Mr Lenagan wants will be even more interesting?

    We are no further towards beating Australia or increasing attendances or elite players in GB than we were in previous decades.

  If the TV audiences have increased,and that dramatic Salford v Hull KR 'Million Pounds Game' did have a good 'watch' then I would think Sky would like the structure to remain.

    Interesting times...


     Born - didn't ask. Dying - didn't argue                                 

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9 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

I never agreed with Caisley and his stance, John . I've still got the copy of the T&A where he tries to ban Sky Sports being shown within a 10 mile radius of the ground.

Imagine what he'd have thought about streaming all the games free on Facebook! :biggrin:

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34 minutes ago, JohnM said:

On paper, maybe not.

In practice, though, ........

Of course, it might be that had negotiations ( or feeble compromise where no one gets what they want)  carried on professionally, behind closed doors, with all parties having their polite say, then absolutely nothing  would have happened for ages and ages and ages, if at all. Or we might have ended up with a camel....a horse designed by a committee.  Now the movers and shakers of the game have broken silence, we'll actually get some progress. 

And the litigation lawyers will be rubbing their hands in absolute glee again at the prospect.  Since, as far as I can see, and from having read the SLE constitution and agreement with the RFL, it seems to me that it was the RFL that is party to the contract with Sky, and with the clubs.

But either way, unilateral breach of contract would inevitably lead to litigation, possible injunctions, and putting Sky in an invidious position that they would not appreciate one bit. Ain't gonna happen, IMO, unless we have some neo-Caisleys in the cabal.


The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.

Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two.  Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true.  Then do it again - some things never end.

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6 hours ago, POR said:

so what you are saying without sky the game would have died in 95

what this game  is about greedy clubs who didn't have a pot to pss  in before summer rugby and some now who still  don't even with it wanting to keep all the sky money

If Sky had not come along I think the game would have died , It was terminally ill, Where do you think they game would have got to by Now without all the millions Sky have provided ?

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Dont expect anything from a pig but a grunt

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5 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Ignore that erroneous double quote...

16 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

I just hope that Brian Barwick and Robert Elstone can form some constructed dialouge at their meetings next week.

 

Regardless of what they may or may not form (are we absolutely SURE Barwick exists, btw?), Lenagan & co have achhieved what must surely have been their primary objective?  theyt have seized the agenda, and triggered a number of ad hominem responses. They've already won, and they know it.

Edited by Adeybull
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.

Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two.  Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true.  Then do it again - some things never end.

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55 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

I believe there's only Bradford needed for the full house John. 

Widnes and Catalans won't release a statement because they agree with Leeds and the Championship/League One clubs.

At least we saw a great game of Rugby League last night between Bradford and Widnes, if a little fiery at times.

 

 

And there's me thinking that the other team was Salford. Interestingly, during the game Eddie Hemmings actually said that this year was going to be the last with the eights, which might indicate that Sky have at least been kept informed of what amounts to a coup d'état by certain parties.

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1 hour ago, Michael Gledhill said:

As the Championship and League One chairman have known for some time, the Super League clubs do not have the power to change the central funding or competition structure without full agreement of the RFL. 

Since the Super League clubs broke away from the RFL, the RFL are acting in the best and wider interests of 60% of the sport of Rugby League and are their doing the job of representing their member clubs from the Championship and League One. 

The Super 8s and central funding are remaining.

You really do live in cloud cuckoo land Mick, the power is where the money is and the money is with SL.

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Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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Even assuming it's possible for the RFL to force the retention of the 8s through to the end of this current broadcast contract, I'd suggest that it would be an incredible foolish thing to do. Alienating the clubs and their owners in such a way would only store up more trouble until erupting violently in 2021, and god knows what arguments would come to the surface in the mean time. Even the RFL couldn't be that foolish.

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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According to both sides talks have been going on about this for around 6 months behind the scenes, I am pretty sure that once the SL chairmen had got Sky on board they decided that's enough of being held back by the Yorkshire cabal, we are going public.

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Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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12 minutes ago, Padge said:

You really do live in cloud cuckoo land Mick, the power is where the money is and the money is with SL.

No.  The power is where the lawyers are.

If Sky are party to an agreement with the RFL, they will not themselves seek to break it, will they?  And if the SL clubs choose to break it, they will be liable for damages for breach of contract, won't they?  A prospect I imagine that will really endear itself to those clubs sailing very close to the wind financially as it is.

After 2021 is an entirely different matter. If the SL clubs do choose to pursue a SL-only deal, comments like yours will doubtless make too many supporters of clubs outside of SL hope that the next TV deal is far worse than this one. 

Sky must be laughing themselves silly.  Same way as the Eurocrats must be doing over Brexit.  Watching their negotiating adversary splintering and self-destructing.


The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.

Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two.  Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true.  Then do it again - some things never end.

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23 minutes ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

And there's me thinking that the other team was Salford. Interestingly, during the game Eddie Hemmings actually said that this year was going to be the last with the eights, which might indicate that Sky have at least been kept informed of what amounts to a coup d'état by certain parties.

He was referring to the academy match, live-streamed.


The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.

Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two.  Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true.  Then do it again - some things never end.

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11 minutes ago, Adeybull said:

No.  The power is where the lawyers are.

If Sky are party to an agreement with the RFL, they will not themselves seek to break it, will they?  And if the SL clubs choose to break it, they will be liable for damages for breach of contract, won't they?  A prospect I imagine that will really endear itself to those clubs sailing very close to the wind financially as it is.

After 2021 is an entirely different matter. If the SL clubs do choose to pursue a SL-only deal, comments like yours will doubtless make too many supporters of clubs outside of SL hope that the next TV deal is far worse than this one. 

Sky must be laughing themselves silly.  Same way as the Eurocrats must be doing over Brexit.  Watching their negotiating adversary splintering and self-destructing.

Sky have an agreement with SL. That is what they buy and that is who they deal with.

 


Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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39 minutes ago, Padge said:

You really do live in cloud cuckoo land Mick, the power is where the money is and the money is with SL.

I'm sorry but you're wrong.

9 minutes ago, Padge said:

Sky have an agreement with SL. That is what they buy and that is who they deal with.

 

I'm sorry but you're wrong again.

For any restructuring of the competitions or redistribution of central funding - SL need agreement from both Sky and the RFL. 

Obviously your Lenagan tinted glasses are affecting your judgement here.

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24 minutes ago, Adeybull said:

No.  The power is where the lawyers are.

If Sky are party to an agreement with the RFL, they will not themselves seek to break it, will they?  And if the SL clubs choose to break it, they will be liable for damages for breach of contract, won't they?  A prospect I imagine that will really endear itself to those clubs sailing very close to the wind financially as it is.

After 2021 is an entirely different matter. If the SL clubs do choose to pursue a SL-only deal, comments like yours will doubtless make too many supporters of clubs outside of SL hope that the next TV deal is far worse than this one. 

Sky must be laughing themselves silly.  Same way as the Eurocrats must be doing over Brexit.  Watching their negotiating adversary splintering and self-destructing.

Great post and pretty much spot on the money.

The SL clubs simply cannot pull up the drawbridge and close the shop with all the takings.

Not unless they want to handsomely compensate the other 26 sides, and judging by Ian Lenagan's threat to remove upwords of £1M central funding from the Championship, that isn't going to happen.

We are at war, these are dark times for the sport. 

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