23-24 Jun: The Betfred Championship Match Thread

[dixiedean]

deleted.

[jpmc]

5 minutes ago, ojx said:

Does this adds fuel to the argument for SL1 & SL2 as full time divisions option?  

Bound to isnt it.

If thinks pan out as expected with lenagan & macmannus doing the dirty deed then a large number of clubs will need to sit down with their fans and make some decisions because if they dont stick together they've got no future after 2021

[Wakefield Ram]

44 minutes ago, ojx said:

Does this adds fuel to the argument for SL1 & SL2 as full time divisions option?  

Not unless either SL clubs in SL1 gave up significant money to enable SL2 to go full time which will never happen or the owners of SL2 clubs are willing to fund them long term out of their own pocket which is not sustainable.

[JohnM]

Or the Championship gets its own tv deal.

[Blind side johnny]

It is exciting at the top of the table isn't it with five clubs fighting for three spots and only two points separating them. I bet the bookies would happily take the money from anyone willing to bet on the outcome.

[Niels]

2 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

It is exciting at the top of the table isn't it with five clubs fighting for three spots and only two points separating them. I bet the bookies would happily take the money from anyone willing to bet on the outcome.

For our clubs it is season over really. Injuries have taken their toll.

Having said that I did enjoy the wheelchair rugby yesterday. The skill and moves were very inventive. 

[RayCee]

2 hours ago, Niels said:

...Injuries have taken their toll....Having said that I did enjoy the wheelchair rugby yesterday. 

I hope the two comments aren't connected. 

[sweaty craiq]

Someone mention two FT tens again, it really does tick all boxes and is very affordable if done right

[The Parksider]

18 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

The Championship is fair in that every club has the right to buy to the Salary Cap.  Why is it TWP, Toulouse, Leigh, London's problem some clubs choose not to?  

Socialism is the enemy of meritocracy.  Wanting equality is stupid because it's actually impossible to attain.

Also, nobody gave the above teams more money, David Argyle has earned every cent he ever made and has chosen to invest some of it in your sport.  He should be penalized for this?

The championship is NOT fair as Matt Diskin stated pre-season.

The reason the salary cap was raised to £1 Million was to make the middle eights system work so someone could actually get promoted. When this did not work Derek Beaumont complained it wasn't enough and he threatened to break the cap. The RFL then allowed "club" (I nearly said clubs plural) to pay full SL salary cap, but of course most of them could not afford it. So we do not have a competition only ONE RICH MAN'S  PROCESSION. Sadly the parachute payment paid to Beaumont to get Leigh back into SL has probably failed on that bad start to the season.

You may have not noticed but the decision has been made to scrap the eights and so it's all a pretty pointless excercise especially as the leading clubs TWP and TO are both on warnings that without any contribution to the TV money via French and Canadian TV deals, and without any contribution to developing the Superleague player pool they are unlikely to gain entry. That decision won't be made unless it has to be, the SL clubs all have their fingers crossed Leigh make it or if they do not, all SL clubs survive.

TWP of course were distraught at the idea of winning the MPG and going nowhere so Argyle offered to forsake Superleague TV money in exchange for promotion if they won it, and the other 11 SL clubs could share that money with the rider if a big Canadian TV deal came in TWP would keep that!! Of course SL clubs ignored that as one club in North America playing English no-names won't pull any big TV deal.

Argyle doesn't "Invest" in our sport. If he did the Billionaire would have dropped a £Million on a system of "conversion" coaching, teaching grid iron athletes from colleges to become RL players as Perez promised two years ago. He could have dropped another £Million on RL development officers and facilities for the Ontario Junior Rugby League to be formed. Instead nothing.

Your reference to "socialism" is nonsensical, of course sport needs a level playing field where all are equal to create the competitiveness that excites the fans. We all know if your club got in Superleague it would struggle without any player infrastructure, and without the ability to outspend the  SL clubs. The Warrington match showed you right up in that regard 

So the two main requirements of guest entry to Superleague are met neither by Toronto nor Toulouse and it's very unlikely Fev or Fax can win it. As for London, the favourite pin in the map for those who dream of a new dawn, the owner himself downsized the club to something he himself could financially manage and enjoy running and it's a massive joke Mr. Hughes would ever accept entry back into Superleague.

But not as massive a joke as this years Qualifiers are going to be, unless Beaumont and his team pull their fingers out and scrape in at the death........

[Manxmanc]

3 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

The championship is NOT fair as Matt Diskin stated pre-season.

The reason the salary cap was raised to £1 Million was to make the middle eights system work so someone could actually get promoted. When this did not work Derek Beaumont complained it wasn't enough and he threatened to break the cap. The RFL then allowed "club" (I nearly said clubs plural) to pay full SL salary cap, but of course most of them could not afford it. So we do not have a competition only ONE RICH MAN'S  PROCESSION. Sadly the parachute payment paid to Beaumont to get Leigh back into SL has probably failed on that bad start to the season.

You may have not noticed but the decision has been made to scrap the eights and so it's all a pretty pointless excercise especially as the leading clubs TWP and TO are both on warnings that without any contribution to the TV money via French and Canadian TV deals, and without any contribution to developing the Superleague player pool they are unlikely to gain entry. That decision won't be made unless it has to be, the SL clubs all have their fingers crossed Leigh make it or if they do not, all SL clubs survive.

TWP of course were distraught at the idea of winning the MPG and going nowhere so Argyle offered to forsake Superleague TV money in exchange for promotion if they won it, and the other 11 SL clubs could share that money with the rider if a big Canadian TV deal came in TWP would keep that!! Of course SL clubs ignored that as one club in North America playing English no-names won't pull any big TV deal.

Argyle doesn't "Invest" in our sport. If he did the Billionaire would have dropped a £Million on a system of "conversion" coaching, teaching grid iron athletes from colleges to become RL players as Perez promised two years ago. He could have dropped another £Million on RL development officers and facilities for the Ontario Junior Rugby League to be formed. Instead nothing.

Your reference to "socialism" is nonsensical, of course sport needs a level playing field where all are equal to create the competitiveness that excites the fans. We all know if your club got in Superleague it would struggle without any player infrastructure, and without the ability to outspend the  SL clubs. The Warrington match showed you right up in that regard 

So the two main requirements of guest entry to Superleague are met neither by Toronto nor Toulouse and it's very unlikely Fev or Fax can win it. As for London, the favourite pin in the map for those who dream of a new dawn, the owner himself downsized the club to something he himself could financially manage and enjoy running and it's a massive joke Mr. Hughes would ever accept entry back into Superleague.

But not as massive a joke as this years Qualifiers are going to be, unless Beaumont and his team pull their fingers out and scrape in at the death........

I need to go to work, but there appear to be massive holes in all this.

Then again, it's an opinion piece, rather than one in which the writer is seeking to provide evidence in support of the points raised.

 

[Harry Stottle]

19 minutes ago, Manxmanc said:

I need to go to work, but there appear to be massive holes in all this.

Then again, it's an opinion piece, rather than one in which the writer is seeking to provide evidence in support of the points raised.

 

Have a good day at work Manxmanc.

The bit I have highlighted in bold italics and underlined, never a truer phrase spoken, course it is, 99% of the topics discussed on this site and any other forum are the thoughts of all the individuals who pen them to either what they personally percieve or what they wish to happen.

Concerning the promotion or otherwise of TWP and T.O. it will either happen or not, if they earn a promotion spot and are denied on 'technicallities' Mr Parksider wins hands down and will say 'I told you so, but you wouldn't listen' if on the other hand he is wrong and either or both get promoted I am sure that many on here will take great delight in letting him know how wrong he was just as they have been telling him for a long time.

Whatever happens it makes for good debate and reading, isn't that the primary function of this site?

 

 

[Snowman123]

On 6/22/2018 at 10:37 PM, Snowman123 said:

Sheffield Eagles v Featherstone Rovers by 24
Toronto Wolfpack v Barrow Raiders by 44
Dewsbury Rams v Leigh Centurions  by 36
Halifax v Batley Bulldogs by 26
London Broncos v Swinton Lions by 26
Rochdale Hornets v Toulouse Olympique by 18

can't say I would know the scores, but  TO need to win by a big margin to keep their GD growing ahead of the others, and cannot take anything for granted.  TWP on cruise control.  The rest all with odds of dead certs. Let's see.

They did.  By 56 points.   The top 4, bar TWP could be decided on GD

[Niels]

8 hours ago, RayCee said:

I hope the two comments aren't connected. 

People without disabilities can play too and do. 

[nadera78]

14 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Not unless either SL clubs in SL1 gave up significant money to enable SL2 to go full time which will never happen or the owners of SL2 clubs are willing to fund them long term out of their own pocket which is not sustainable.

Exactly this.

SL clubs receive around £2m p/a (going by Lenagan's interview in LE) with a further £4.9m to the C/L1 clubs.

Dropping 2 SL clubs into the new SL2, and adding all of the C/L1 funding gives you £8.9million. Divided by 10 clubs that's £890,000 each, so realistically not enough to run full time squads and off-field staff without significant outside investment at each club. And, of course, this formula would mean no funding whatsoever for the clubs left isolated in League 1. I'm sure those Championship clubs/fans so keen on a "whole game solution" would never cut those clubs off in such a way! And, of course, no increased funding for the SL clubs which they are obviously desperate for and is key to this whole re-organisation.

Can't see it ever happening. 

[Manxmanc]

7 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Have a good day at work Manxmanc.

The bit I have highlighted in bold italics and underlined, never a truer phrase spoken, course it is, 99% of the topics discussed on this site and any other forum are the thoughts of all the individuals who pen them to either what they personally percieve or what they wish to happen.

Concerning the promotion or otherwise of TWP and T.O. it will either happen or not, if they earn a promotion spot and are denied on 'technicallities' Mr Parksider wins hands down and will say 'I told you so, but you wouldn't listen' if on the other hand he is wrong and either or both get promoted I am sure that many on here will take great delight in letting him know how wrong he was just as they have been telling him for a long time.

Whatever happens it makes for good debate and reading, isn't that the primary function of this site?

 

Thanks for the best wishes Harry Stottle - they probably did the trick because I finished early today.

I would go along with your last comment wholeheartedly. I just have some reservations in cases where comments are passed off as facts and there is strong element of disrespect towards the reader/poster. 

 

[The Parksider]

On 6/25/2018 at 8:09 AM, Manxmanc said:

I need to go to work, but there appear to be massive holes in all this.Then again, it's an opinion piece, rather than one in which the writer is seeking to provide evidence in support of the points raised.

When exactly did the forum become a court of law? I have seen many a poster post utter complete fantasies and somehow they are not requiring your "evidence". I often ask for the "evidence" of this Transatlantic league yet nobody can name a single North American investor.

On the issue of guest clubs entry to SL  I have posted the evidence of Lenegans own words when at Toulouse and Rimmers post Xmas press statement, Rowley reacted to. these were factual events people can't (but often do) deny. My opinion only, was such a block was a good thing to have.

The bottom line is it's "fact" if it's something you want to hear, it's "opinion" if it's something you don't want to hear. Most of what I post is actually reported or actually said by chairmen, directors & officials, journalists close to the action etc. Read on......

On 6/25/2018 at 8:50 AM, Harry Stottle said:

It is, 99% of the topics discussed  are the thoughts of all the individuals who pen them to either what they personally percieve or what they wish to happen.

Concerning the promotion or otherwise of TWP and T.O. it will either happen or not, if they earn a promotion spot and are denied on 'technicallities' Mr Parksider wins hands down and will say 'I told you so, but you wouldn't listen' if on the other hand he is wrong and either or both get promoted I am sure that many on here will take great delight in letting him know how wrong he was just as they have been telling him for a long time.

99% is way off the mark, there are many great factual posters on here who bring us factual information, or posters who back and  balance their views superbly with no axe to grind. I have no axe to grind, I would lap up a Transatlantic league if it actually was good business, but it's the most godawful plan in the world - how do we make a Transatlantic league when there are no North American investors for it and Jason Moore has announced his own league? Can you name me any North American Investors lining up for the Transatlantic league?

I can also reveal a change of heart by Lenegan who is reported as saying " Toronto and David Argyle are a well managed operation. If they get promoted into Superleague there's no negatives from our viewpoint". Therefore the block looks like it may now be off. I'm not ignoring it, just providing the facts without the selectiveness of the fantasists.

My analysis of this is TO and TWP had no chance getting into a 10 club SL. However now Lenegan has conceded 12 clubs in SL until 2021 but has two lame ducks in Widnes and Salford financially collapsing before his own eyes, so SL may have nowhere to go for replacements but overseas.

There can be no "I told you so" when events may have now altered (and the events are firstly both Koukash and O'Connor walking away, and secondly the lack of investment finally hitting home hard), and as you know events are just as likely to swing the other way again. Come 2021 if the SL clubs have to cut to 10 the overseas clubs may be at greatest risk.

So all any of us can do is monitor analyse and discuss events, which won't stop with TWP getting that promotion. However if that is too damn boring, we can  make up and discuss fantasies (which is what I object to) like "Conferences" or a Transatlantic League...........Or Scotchy's world league?

[Davo5]

Comedy gold from the South Leeds storyteller.

[Manxmanc]

9 hours ago, The Parksider said:

When exactly did the forum become a court of law? I have seen many a poster post utter complete fantasies and somehow they are not requiring your "evidence". I often ask for the "evidence" of this Transatlantic league yet nobody can name a single North American investor.

On the issue of guest clubs entry to SL  I have posted the evidence of Lenegans own words when at Toulouse and Rimmers post Xmas press statement, Rowley reacted to. these were factual events people can't (but often do) deny. My opinion only, was such a block was a good thing to have.

The bottom line is it's "fact" if it's something you want to hear, it's "opinion" if it's something you don't want to hear. Most of what I post is actually reported or actually said by chairmen, directors & officials, journalists close to the action etc. Read on......

99% is way off the mark, there are many great factual posters on here who bring us factual information, or posters who back and  balance their views superbly with no axe to grind. I have no axe to grind, I would lap up a Transatlantic league if it actually was good business, but it's the most godawful plan in the world - how do we make a Transatlantic league when there are no North American investors for it and Jason Moore has announced his own league? Can you name me any North American Investors lining up for the Transatlantic league?

I can also reveal a change of heart by Lenegan who is reported as saying " Toronto and David Argyle are a well managed operation. If they get promoted into Superleague there's no negatives from our viewpoint". Therefore the block looks like it may now be off. I'm not ignoring it, just providing the facts without the selectiveness of the fantasists.

My analysis of this is TO and TWP had no chance getting into a 10 club SL. However now Lenegan has conceded 12 clubs in SL until 2021 but has two lame ducks in Widnes and Salford financially collapsing before his own eyes, so SL may have nowhere to go for replacements but overseas.

There can be no "I told you so" when events may have now altered (and the events are firstly both Koukash and O'Connor walking away, and secondly the lack of investment finally hitting home hard), and as you know events are just as likely to swing the other way again. Come 2021 if the SL clubs have to cut to 10 the overseas clubs may be at greatest risk.

So all any of us can do is monitor analyse and discuss events, which won't stop with TWP getting that promotion. However if that is too damn boring, we can  make up and discuss fantasies (which is what I object to) like "Conferences" or a Transatlantic League...........Or Scotchy's world league?

 

• If you read the follow up post, you will note that there is no issue with opinions. (see below)

• The main issue is disrespect.

•  

Posted yesterday at 04:30 PM (edited)

  On 6/25/2018 at 8:50 AM, Harry Stottle said:

Have a good day at work Manxmanc.

The bit I have highlighted in bold italics and underlined, never a truer phrase spoken, course it is, 99% of the topics discussed on this site and any other forum are the thoughts of all the individuals who pen them to either what they personally percieve or what they wish to happen.

Concerning the promotion or otherwise of TWP and T.O. it will either happen or not, if they earn a promotion spot and are denied on 'technicallities' Mr Parksider wins hands down and will say 'I told you so, but you wouldn't listen' if on the other hand he is wrong and either or both get promoted I am sure that many on here will take great delight in letting him know how wrong he was just as they have been telling him for a long time.

Whatever happens it makes for good debate and reading, isn't that the primary function of this site?

 

Thanks for the best wishes Harry Stottle - they probably did the trick because I finished early today.

I would go along with your last comment wholeheartedly. I just have some reservations in cases where comments are passed off as facts and there is strong element of disrespect towards the reader/poster. 

[Fabou]

hello folk!

sorry for the late feedback, I was out for a long week end in the UK, so I have been able to compile all the info only this morning… And I want to double check the prediction file (because some of the numbers do not seem very logical / excel formula that I had to extend...) in order to avoid mistake. I try to give you the update today.

Meanwhile, it seems that there has been an interesting/pasisonate debate on this thread!!

 

[The Blues Ox]

Slightly off topic but with all the excitment of the top 4 in the Championship I just noticed that whichever 2 teams miss the cut they will almost be assured of fighting out the final in the lower 8s with there already been a 10 point gap between 6th and 7th which will in all likelyhood increase over the next few weeks. It will be a great opportunity for any team running a reserves to give some of their fringe players a run out knowing results are not important.

[westlondonfan]

A good Sunday of summer sport just gone. London’s matches against Halifax at home on 15th July 2018 and away to Featherstone on 22nd are looking more and more important now.

[David Shepherd]

On 6/25/2018 at 8:50 AM, Harry Stottle said:

 

Whatever happens it makes for good debate and reading, isn't that the primary function of this site?

 

 

Not sure Parky's posts make for good reading

 

[David Shepherd]

7 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Slightly off topic but with all the excitment of the top 4 in the Championship I just noticed that whichever 2 teams miss the cut they will almost be assured of fighting out the final in the lower 8s with there already been a 10 point gap between 6th and 7th which will in all likelyhood increase over the next few weeks. It will be a great opportunity for any team running a reserves to give some of their fringe players a run out knowing results are not important.

Are you admitting defeat already?

[The Blues Ox]

22 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Are you admitting defeat already?

We shouldnt beat Fev, London , and Toulouse so its reasonable to expect us to miss out on the top 4.

Then again we shouldnt have beaten Fev, Toulouse, and Hull KR last season to finish in the top 4 but thats not taking in to account Fev had(insert excuse out of food poisoning/no incentive to win/Beer on 50p a pint/a whippet race the players were more interested in), Toulouse were not allowed to win because Ford was not playing and Hull KR only fielded 6 players otherwise Fax wouldnt have got within 40 of them like in the other 2 times they played them that season.

[Fabou]

OK boys,

I had to go threw the all document and now it is OK.

so, probably our best predictions of the year, we almost all predict the right Winners. 2 best scorers this week : Marklaspalmas and Gittinsfan with 8 Points

the leader MattSantos remains on the throne, Marklaspalmas comes back to 1 Point!

more to come next round, I dont have in mind the fixtures but there should be some drama!!